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Old 09-07-2014, 07:09 AM   #1
terry_g_1987
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help please struggling with an intermittent misfire

Hello
Please help bought my first e46 about 3 weeks ago now and for the first week it was lovely to drive however now it has developed a terrible intermittent misfire. Its a 2003 320i touring automatic. I have had it scanned many times with only a few codes showing which havent really given much insight.

misfire cylinder 6
misfire cylinder 4
misfire cylinder 6 fuel cut off
and o2 sensors in the exhaust which i have been advised will show up due to the misfires and un-burnt fuel etc going through exhaust

Initially it seemed to be cylinder 6 misfiring however now it seems to have moved to cylinder 4 interestingly if i turn the car off and back on it seems to go away for a few seconds.

I have changed the following through reading forums and advice given to no avail. in addition to this i have also sprayed all around the inlet with tons of brake cleaner to identify if there has been an air leak to which there was no change in the idle which leads me to believe that it is not sucking air from anywhere.
fuel filter
spark plugs
both cam sensors
2 new coil packs.

Please help i am happy to pay someone for an accurate diagnosis as to the cause of this problem however when i have it scanned it seems to only be throwing up the same fault codes.

Thanks
Terry
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Old 09-07-2014, 07:43 AM   #2
jfoj
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If the misfires are on start up, rarely is the problem coils or spark plugs, you already have figured this out at this point.

You mention codes for O2 sensors, not likely the O2 sensors either.

What I would like to see is the EXACT Pxxxx codes you are getting, Freeze Frame data and warm idle Fuel Trims.

You can use an entire case of brake cleaner on these cars looking for intake air leaks and you will almost NEVER find them! All the leaks are on the bottom section of the engine and on the underside of hoses or the intake.

You can read the 1st link below in my signature for more info. Lower intake boot, CCV and hoses, CCV lower oil return line, valve cover leaks, DISA, power brake booster and connections on the rear underside of the intake are all prime sources of leaks.

Also search YouTube for Scotty Smoke Test. Smoke testing is an easy way to find air leaks on these engines. Keep in mind you need to smoke test both the intake and crankcase.
__________________
Solve your misfires, lean codes, rough idle - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=897616

Fuel pump failures - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=929501

Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temps, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose fan switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299
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Old 09-07-2014, 01:07 PM   #3
terry_g_1987
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Hello
Thanks for your prompt reply. It looks like I need to buy my own scanner for this one then might aswell buy a decent one is there any you might recommend to display the above as I had been borrowing my friends snap on scanner but I feel I have had the car scanned 1 too many times with him already trying to fix this.
Many thanks
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Old 09-07-2014, 02:39 PM   #4
jfoj
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Quote:
Originally Posted by terry_g_1987 View Post
Hello
Thanks for your prompt reply. It looks like I need to buy my own scanner for this one then might aswell buy a decent one is there any you might recommend to display the above as I had been borrowing my friends snap on scanner but I feel I have had the car scanned 1 too many times with him already trying to fix this.
Many thanks
Do you have a smart phone or any tablets?

If so, what brand/OS?

For around $35 USD you can have a good OBDII tool using a smart phone/tablet App and interface. Unfortunately with VAT your will be slightly more.
__________________
Solve your misfires, lean codes, rough idle - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=897616

Fuel pump failures - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=929501

Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temps, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose fan switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299
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Old 09-07-2014, 03:19 PM   #5
terry_g_1987
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Hello
Have a Samsung galaxy s4.
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Old 09-07-2014, 03:35 PM   #6
jfoj
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You want either Touch Scan for Android or Torque Pro. $5 USD or less.

Then you need an OBDII to Bluetooth interface.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/TIMETOP-Blue...ywords=ELM+327

This may show up quicker, shows it is "Fulfilled By Amazon" - http://www.amazon.co.uk/Diagnostic-E...ywords=ELM+327
__________________
Solve your misfires, lean codes, rough idle - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=897616

Fuel pump failures - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=929501

Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temps, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose fan switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299
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Old 09-07-2014, 03:55 PM   #7
terry_g_1987
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Purchased and downloaded thanks. I will clear codes first as been playing with it then rescan and see what is thrown up.
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Old 09-07-2014, 03:58 PM   #8
jfoj
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Quote:
Originally Posted by terry_g_1987 View Post
Purchased and downloaded thanks. I will clear codes first as been playing with it then rescan and see what is thrown up.
Get Freeze Frame data and document it before you clear any codes.

Best to start a log with date and mileage and note what codes and Freeze Frame info pops up.

Usually the first code to pop can help narrow things down. If the SES/CEL/MIL light is on, sometimes other codes can flood in and confuse things slightly.

Sometimes it is best to leave the SES/CEL/MIL on and keep checking for additional codes as well.
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Solve your misfires, lean codes, rough idle - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=897616

Fuel pump failures - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=929501

Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temps, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose fan switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299
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Old 09-09-2014, 02:06 PM   #9
terry_g_1987
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Hello right I have an absolute load of screen shots of different fault codes and real time information. I have driven and scanned again after and whilst the misfire was not as bad it is still present.

I will upload the fault codes as they where before I cleared the codes after when I started the car and again after a short drive
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Old 09-09-2014, 02:11 PM   #10
terry_g_1987
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Screen shots
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Old 09-09-2014, 02:20 PM   #11
jfoj
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This is a good start.

Appears you may have some bad O2 sensor heaters, but before we jump on this we need more info like Fuel Trim and Freeze Frame info.

I know you may be new to the tool, but just remember you will need to find the hidden Menu.

Torque will require you to go to Realtime Information and you will have to add gauges for Fuel Trims, choose Medium size gauges and put the 4 fuel trims on a single page.
__________________
Solve your misfires, lean codes, rough idle - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=897616

Fuel pump failures - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=929501

Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temps, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose fan switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299
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Old 09-09-2014, 02:45 PM   #12
terry_g_1987
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Driven home from shop misfire is now worse again re scanned following codes stored
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Old 09-09-2014, 02:59 PM   #13
terry_g_1987
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Think this is what you mean
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Old 09-09-2014, 03:18 PM   #14
jfoj
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Still hard to tell for sure what is going on at this point.

I think the Fuel Trims are maybe not accurate due to the engine possible not being in Closed Loop fuel control.

Suggest you start by disconnecting the MAF to see how the car runs.

You could have everything from a bad fuel pump to sensors connected wrong to a bad load of fuel.

See if you can follow this and record and post the data.

Mainly interested in O2 Sensors, RPM, Speed, MAF and Engine Temp. If you can add fuel trims, this would be great.

orque Pro crib notes, short version.

Start Torque Pro program on Droid device.

Touch the Droid Menu button.

Choose Settings in Torque Pro.

Choose Data Logging & Upload.

Select what to log, choose only things you need to log for faster logging.

Select File Logging Interval, start with 1 second unless you have only a few items to log.

Select Log When Torque Is Started.

Select Only When OBD Connected.

Unselect Automatically Log GPS, this is a time and resource waster for OBD logging.

Decide what you want to select for Rotate Log Files.

Select Format Log Files.

Enter User Email Address.

Test Settings

From Realtime Information page, select the Droid Menu, select Email Logs, select what "TrackLog" to email and it should be in the CSV format.

For O2 sensor cold start testing suggest you open Torque get BT connected, you should have everything but OBDII datastream at this point, turn key on but do not start engine until the OBDII datasteam is running.

Start engine from cold overnight rest, do not touch the throttle or drive the car. Capture at 3 minutes of data then stop gathering data.

You can email me the log if you do not know how to properly graph the info.

This will help determine how good the O2 sensors are, then move on and get Fuel Trim figures at warm idle and steady highway cruise.

Freeze Frame info is also very useful.
__________________
Solve your misfires, lean codes, rough idle - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=897616

Fuel pump failures - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=929501

Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temps, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose fan switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299
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Old 09-11-2014, 02:00 PM   #15
terry_g_1987
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Just disconnected maf and driven 9 miles with no misfire re scanned after drive and came up with the attached fault codes. What are the other 2 about and also do you think a maf will fix it now or should I do rest of diagnosis as stated.
Would you put a genuine maf on or are aftermarket Ok?

The end Is in sight
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Old 09-11-2014, 02:02 PM   #16
terry_g_1987
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Most recent scan after disconnecting maf
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Old 09-11-2014, 10:00 PM   #17
jfoj
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Quote:
Originally Posted by terry_g_1987 View Post
Just disconnected maf and driven 9 miles with no misfire re scanned after drive and came up with the attached fault codes. What are the other 2 about and also do you think a maf will fix it now or should I do rest of diagnosis as stated.
Would you put a genuine maf on or are aftermarket Ok?

The end Is in sight
MAF is not likely your problem. STOP right where you are now.

Disconnecting the MAF forces the engine into a richer fuel mapping and will cover up/mask Lean problems.

Disconnecting the MAF and having the engine run better is not an indicator that the MAF needs to be replaced.

The O2 sensor heater faults are likely an indicator that either the O2 sensor heater fuse is blown or the O2 sensors may need to be replaced. A simple resistance check on the heating circuit for the O2 sensors will likely answer the question very quickly.

If the O2 sensors are original on your 11-12 year old car, then the sensors should probably be replaced regardless.
__________________
Solve your misfires, lean codes, rough idle - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=897616

Fuel pump failures - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=929501

Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temps, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose fan switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299

Last edited by jfoj; 09-11-2014 at 10:04 PM.
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Old 09-12-2014, 05:10 AM   #18
terry_g_1987
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Was hoping that was the cure typical I believe they are the original so ill get them changed.
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Old 09-12-2014, 05:18 AM   #19
jfoj
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Not sure the data you provided so far is correct and accurate.

Need to see the warm idle fuel trim values. What you showed earlier had the LTFT at 0 and the STFT in the negative range.

Was unclear if the engine was fully warmed up during that data capture.
__________________
Solve your misfires, lean codes, rough idle - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=897616

Fuel pump failures - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=929501

Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temps, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose fan switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299
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Old 09-12-2014, 05:20 AM   #20
terry_g_1987
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Ok ill do these now. With or without maf connected will this make a difference?
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