E46 BMW Social Directory E46 FAQ 3-Series Discussion Forums BMW Photo Gallery BMW 3-Series Technical Information E46 Fanatics - The Ultimate BMW Resource BMW Vendors General E46 Forum The Tire Rack's Tire Wheel Forum Forced Induction Forum The Off-Topic The E46 BMW Showroom For Sale, For Trade or Wanting to Buy

Welcome to the E46Fanatics forums. E46Fanatics is the premiere website for BMW 3 series owners around the world with interactive forums, a geographical enthusiast directory, photo galleries, and technical information for BMW enthusiasts.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.

Go Back   E46Fanatics > E46 BMW > General E46 Forum

General E46 Forum
This is the place to get answers, opinions and everything you need related to your E46 (sedan, coupe, convertible and wagon) BMW!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rating: Thread Rating: 2 votes, 5.00 average. Display Modes
Old 01-03-2012, 07:08 PM   #1
chungachguk
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 14
My Ride: 2002 325Ci and 330xi
Rough Idle and Loss of power after warm up...

Hey guys. Relative newbie here (in the sense of posting, used the site numerous times for various DIY). Apologies in advance in case there's plenty of threads about this issue, but after looking through a few I couldn't find one that fits my scenarios exactly. So here it goes...

Recently bought a 2002 BMW 330xi (170k) from a local seller who claimed that the car was overheating due to a possible blown head gasket. Have a moderate experience with BMWs so I figured for the price I bought it for it was totally worth it to rebuild the head in case it in fact was the head gasket. Bought the car, had it towed to the house, waited for the next dry day (we don't get too many up here in Seattle) and went out to check out what I could see.

Step #1: Checked the fluid, obviously none in there. Refilled it with coolant, bled the system, took it for a drive... Doesn't overheat. White smoke was coming out of the exhaust when I first started it, but eventually went away (I figured it was probably just from standing for so long (the seller said he hasn't drive it in months)). Drove it around for around 25 minutes, the car drove like a champ. I thought the guy must've been a moron when he sold it to me... As soon as I get home, around 25-30 miles later, the car stars idling rough, and lost most of its power.. Clearly it's running on only 5 cylinders.

Step #2: Check all the engine codes, besides the few obvious ones (due to obviously not so great maintenance from the previous owner) such as coolant sensor, temperature sensor and the thermostat sensor, it throws out P1349 (Cyl 4 misfire with fuel cut-off). I figured with so many miles on it I would re-do the whole cooling system. Obviously wasn't going to fix the misfire issue, but it was long overdue, so I figured I would get that out of the way. I have access to pretty cheap parts so ended up replacing both hoses, thermostat, water pump, both belts, expansion tank, AT thermostat, also bought a radiator, but I figured I wouldn't replace that until the last resort)... Flushed the system, put in fresh coolant, drove around for about 20 minutes, runs like a champ again... Almost got overexcited again... Drive up to the house, same number of miles (25-30) it starts idling rough again... Throws up the same code...

Step #3: Since the initial suspect was a blown head gasket, I figured I should check the compression... Take the necessary fuses and ignition coils out, measure the compression... All cylinders are at or around 170. Not perfect but pretty good, since they are all very consistent. Again doesn't feel like a head gasket..

Step #4: My other car is a 2002 325Ci, so I figured I would just take an ignition coil from it and throw it into the 330xi, as well as replace a spark plug to see if that would fix anything. Did that, reset the code and took it for a drive... Again 24 minutes of great driving and than..boom the code pops back up and the car idles rough again.

I am honestly at a loss of ideas... At the point where I am contemplating taking it to a local indy shop to see if maybe the could do a leak-down test and a smoke-test to see if there is a vacuum leak. I could probably check for vaccum leaks (and will do so), but wouldn't it seem like if it was that it would idle rough to begin with and not only when the car is warmed up?

P.S.: It also seems weird to me that although I do bleed the system, it feels like when I drive the temperature is only super hot when the RPMs are revving... If I am idling, the air is warm, but not hot.. (sounds like air in the system, but I feel like I have followed the instruction for a bleeding system numerous times)... Open the bleeding screw and the expansion tank cap.. Turn the key to on (do not start) and the fan to lowest speed at 91F and slowly fill the reservoir until seeing the coolant come out of the bleeding hole steadily (without any air bubbles)... I do that, although it feels like I am overfilling the tank everytime I do that, because by the time the fluid comes out of the bleeding hole the tank is nearly completely full (literally you can see the fluid in the expansion tank being almost at the very top).

I am lost! If anybody has any ideas or suggestions they would be greatly appreciated. Will replace the fuel filter (just because it seems as if it needs to be done regardless of the problem), but doubt that will solve anything. The only thing I can possible guess (and that's mostly logic not automotive mechanic savvy-ness), is that there is a leak into the 4th cylinder where the water goes, and as the engine warms up, it eventually shuts off the 4th cylinder. But again I wonder why the compression was good, and why it only happens when hot.
chungachguk is offline   Reply With Quote
Ads by Google

Guests, get your FREE E46Fanatics.com membership to remove this ad.
Old 01-03-2012, 07:19 PM   #2
jasonbimmer
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Omaha, NE
Posts: 5,686
My Ride: 2001 BMW 330xi
did you try to swap injectors?
__________________
2009 Mazda RX-8 R3
2013 Toyota FJ Cruiser
2008 YAMAHA YZF-R6
jasonbimmer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2012, 07:24 PM   #3
electric130
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Denver, NC
Posts: 562
My Ride: 2002 330i
If u turn the car off and right back on, does the rough idle go away?

Sent from my Samsung Epic 4G using Bimmer App
__________________
J.R.

electric130 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2012, 11:30 AM   #4
chungachguk
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 14
My Ride: 2002 325Ci and 330xi
Will try to swap injectors and shutting off and re-starting it later on today. I suppose it makes sense if one of the injectors is clogging up, although still not sure why it would only happen after about 30 minutes. Will let you know how it goes. Thanks for the suggestions!
chungachguk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2012, 05:04 PM   #5
dslick2025
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 83
My Ride: 325CI
Would like an update, as my 01' 325ci is having quite similar problems with P1349.
dslick2025 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2012, 08:50 PM   #6
chungachguk
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 14
My Ride: 2002 325Ci and 330xi
Sorry for the late response guys! Turns out it was a head gasket (which I guess was kind of predictable). I took it to the mechanic, but I could've called that myself. What was happening was there was a coolant leak into the 4th Cylinder which caused it to overheat and the injector would shut off. The way I could've called it is that everytime the code would come up, white smoke would not come out of the second tailpipe, but as soon as I would reset the code with the OBDII reader (causing the injector to come back on), white smoke would start coming out of the pipe again. Most of you would easily diagnose it as a blown headgasket, but my wishful thinking in combination with good/positive compression test results I was hoping it would be something else.

Had a few quotes for a replacement from an indy varying from 1000-1500 (without the parts), so I figured I could do most of it myself. I will obviously still take the head in for all the repairs, but all the taking apart/putting it back together for which a mechanic would charge 75-100 bucks an hour, I can do myself.

Took out the intake manifold and all the surrounding stuff freeing up the work area while waiting for the Vanos timing tools to come in, and am in the process of removing the Exhaust Manifold right now (real PITA), but I got time...

Will keep you all posted on the results and the updates.
chungachguk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2012, 02:21 PM   #7
dslick2025
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 83
My Ride: 325CI
Real tragic for it to be a blown head gasket hopefully mine isn't the case. Thanks for the update and goodluck with the repair.
P.s did you do an oil change after purchasing the car? Were there any signs of milkyness aka coolant in the drained oil/yellow coating on oil check dipstick? Those should have been a dead give away to blown headgasket?

Last edited by dslick2025; 01-23-2012 at 02:30 PM. Reason: adding stuff
dslick2025 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2012, 02:26 PM   #8
jfoj
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Fairfax, VA USA
Posts: 10,439
My Ride: '06 330CiC, '03 M5
Quote:
Originally Posted by dslick2025 View Post
Would like an update, as my 01' 325ci is having quite similar problems with P1349.
dslick, is your problem happening with the engine cold and/or before fully warmed up?

Do you/have you had other trouble codes?
jfoj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2012, 02:40 PM   #9
dslick2025
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 83
My Ride: 325CI
Jfoj,
This is happening when car is cold (it is winter here). Although last time I drove, the car was perfect. After starting the car up about a week later, idle was rough and bouncy, and would stall shortly after. Giving gas while idling seemed to keep it from stalling, but as soon as I let off the pedal, the rpms dropped to a stall. Read code P1349 misfire cylinder 4 fuel-cut off.
Started the research process and been a week since I tried starting the car again, now it just cranks and won't start. Read codes and now two more codes on top of the P1349:
P1346 misfire cylinder 3 during startup
P1350 misfire cylinder 5 during startup

Recently changed camshaft cps sensor and spark plugs about 1500 km prior to the issue. 170k kilometers on the car. Don't mean to thread jack, and can pm for info if you wish.

Last edited by dslick2025; 01-23-2012 at 02:42 PM.
dslick2025 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2012, 02:45 PM   #10
jfoj
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Fairfax, VA USA
Posts: 10,439
My Ride: '06 330CiC, '03 M5
Shoot me a PM and I will give you some specific direction.
jfoj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2012, 08:18 AM   #11
dcabot
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: California
Posts: 2
My Ride: 2002 BMW 330CI
I have 2002 330CI with similar issues ... but probably not a head gasket (no smoke, oil's not clouded)... but misfires and stalls when hot. I've read through many many forums and see a lot of similar problems but no one post that matches my car's symptoms precisely :-( If this is in an inappropriate forum/thread I apologize feel free to move it or direct me elsewhere.

Symptoms:

Car starts great and runs terrific when cold - no problems at all, great git-up-and-go and good overall gas mileage (around 25 mpg on 91 octane). After driving for 20-30 minutes though the RPMs will start to quickly flutter/fluctuate downward and the car will also experience a jerking sensation rearwards like it's a dog being jerked back on a leash. Initially I suspected transmission but all of the codes have been for misfires, etc and it just doesn't feel like it's trying to shift.

This only happens when the car is hot and once that is true it will continue to flutter/fluctuate for the rest of the drive and subsequent drives until it seems the car has been given a chance to cool off for several hours. Once the car is 'warm' the symptom can be aggravated by driving up a hill and can lead to a stall on the side of the road. I actually have a nice video of it stalling out at the top of a hill on my way to work because it stalls there consistently and I was ready on day 3 with my cell phone camera.

This happens in every gear, in every RPM range with full or near empty tank, though it tends not to feel like it's going to result in an actual stall when I'm in higher RPMs. Often it will end up going into limp mode and runs very poorly (always with cyl#1 code P1343 and usually accompanied by cyl#2 P1345) until I turn it off, wait a minute and then restart. I drive around with a code reader for now, check and reset them constantly on every drive. I've also had the 'random misfires' code, as well as camshaft/crankshaft position sensor/knock/cat inefficiency codes but not consistently so I rather suspect these to be symptoms and not causes.

Lastly there is ticking that using a bit of vacuum hose I have isolated to the top of the fuel rail just over the injector for cyl #1

Attempted Solutions:

Replaced air filter
Replaced intake boot and elbow
Replaced vacuum lines(think I got them all) and vacuum cap at rear of intake manifold
Replaced CCV for new OEM
Replaced both camshaft sensors for new OEM
Unplugged DISA - no change (I also took it out and inspected it, looks fine)
Unplugged MAF - no change
Swapped coils #1/#2 with #3/#4 ... misfires stayed on 1&2
Swapped spark plugs #1/#2 with #3/#4 ... misfires stayed on 1&2

My indie thought for sure the camshaft sensors would do the trick, but alas. My next thoughts are fuel related especially since cylinders 1 & 2 are at the end of the fuel rail. I plan to swap injectors and test fuel pressure, then possibly replace fuel filter and/or the fuel pump - but is it really possible for the pump or filter be degraded by temperature? There is a direct connection between driving time and the appearance of symptoms. When it's cold this thing runs like a champ for at least 20-30 minutes.

This vehicle will probably be fine to get my wife to work and back every day but the issue sucks all the same...
dcabot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2012, 10:05 AM   #12
jfoj
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Fairfax, VA USA
Posts: 10,439
My Ride: '06 330CiC, '03 M5
dcabot,

You should perform a compression test and cylinder leakage test before throwing more parts at the car. These test area easy to do, if you can change the spark plugs you can do this test. Only issue is you need a cylinder leakage test tool and compressed air.

Hopefully you do not have a problem like the guy in this thread!

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthr...ghlight=trophy

Just need to rule out the basics before moving on.

Also if you think you may have the original fuel pump, they are known weak spots in BMW's. I tell anyone that owns an older BMW, replace the pump on your terms, not the cars terms, as it is one thing that will leave you stranded somewhere. So like the Nike add says, "Just Do it". Not that it is your issue, but you should consider that depending on what the compression and leakage test shows.


Also suggest you replace the DISA main O-ring, see the link in my signature below- Solve your misfires, lean codes, rough idle
__________________
Solve your misfires, lean codes, rough idle - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=897616

Fuel pump failures - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=929501

Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temps, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose fan switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299

Last edited by jfoj; 02-07-2012 at 10:14 AM.
jfoj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2012, 09:00 AM   #13
dcabot
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: California
Posts: 2
My Ride: 2002 BMW 330CI
jfoj - Thanks for your quick reply. I will run those checks this weekend and report back!
dcabot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2012, 01:14 PM   #14
chungachguk
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 14
My Ride: 2002 325Ci and 330xi
Just thought I would stop by, thank everyone for their suggestions and advice and let you know that IT LIVES!

Ended up taking the head off, only to find out that there were at least 6 cracks in it! (DDDAMN!) Got a bit discouraged, but managed to find a remanufactured head (remachined, full valve job, and pressure tested) for around $600 (plus the guy threw in the Vanos and both camshafts, which I now have for sale in anybody needs them).

From that point on I was only worried about whether the block was also warped/cracked (since the head was so bad) and whether I would be able to torque down the cylinder head bolts. Alas, the bolts tightened right down and so far (fingers crossed) no leaks or codes.

Setting the timing would've been much easier if the main chain tensioner tool was not so hard to get to with a torque wrench, as the proper torque settings ended up playing a very important role...But a few tries and the timing was set!

After that it was all a matter of putting everything back and replacing all the vacuum lines/hoses and all the gaskets along the way. This was the first engine I ever took apart (well the head at least) so it took a little bit of time to put everything back together (note to self: mark everything MUCH MUCH better along the way for easier time putting it back).

Put in new Vanos Seal Kit, and although it could just be psychological, since it has been a while since I've driven it, or the combination of that and all vacuum lines/hoses, but the car definitely pulls much better. Will probably do a compression test just in case but at this point everything seems to be in order (again, fingers crossed).

At least now I have absolutely no fear digging into pretty much any automotive work I might have on my car.

P.S.: I will also post this in the appropriate thread, but in case anybody needs them I have all the timing tools available for rent, and the Vanos (which I can rebuild prior to sale) and both Camshafts available for sale.

Thanks again!
chungachguk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2012, 04:46 PM   #15
electric130
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Denver, NC
Posts: 562
My Ride: 2002 330i
great to hear it's fixed. so what would you say the "moral of the story" is for what your problem was?
__________________
J.R.

electric130 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2012, 01:33 PM   #16
L305
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Miami
Posts: 3
My Ride: 540
Guys I'm having this same issue but it goes away if car is turned off then back on but eventually comes back. Think it's a cracked head? No codes, only when hot and only when outside temp is hot it idles rough at stand still or park but accelerates with power. It doesn't happen in the winter in the northeast, only in summer or when outside temp is above 75 or so.
Another note, it can be idling rough, but if I take it on the highway then come to a stop it idles smooth but after a while in traffic it idles rough again but only when outside temp is hot. WTF could it be?
L305 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2012, 05:27 PM   #17
BeMyWhip
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: The Big Apple USA
Posts: 3,542
My Ride: 01 BMW 330ci
What did you pay for the car knowing it had a blow head gasket? If you dont mind ofcourse
__________________
Always Mod!!!
Founder: 330Ci The 3 litre coupe
BeMyWhip is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2012, 09:48 PM   #18
chungachguk
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 14
My Ride: 2002 325Ci and 330xi
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeMyWhip View Post
What did you pay for the car knowing it had a blow head gasket? If you dont mind ofcourse
I ended up paying 3k. A bit of a risk, but I sell autoparts, so I have easy access to cheap parts, and I knew I would replace everything myself.
chungachguk is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Censor is ON





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:45 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
(c) 1999 - 2011 performanceIX Inc - privacy policy - terms of use