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Old 01-10-2012, 03:11 PM   #21
jacques chirac
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Manual Gearboxes are on the edge of extinction, because cutomers of High end sports car don't want them anymore.

Ferrari and Lamborghini already stated they won't produce manuals cars anymore.

In modern sportscars, The engine, the sequential gearbox and the diffferential all work together. Putting a manual box breaks the link.
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Old 01-10-2012, 03:15 PM   #22
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Old 01-10-2012, 03:21 PM   #23
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And it was an utter piece of shit. The E60 was built around the 7-speed SMGIII transmission. Not being able to spin the tires on a 500HP V10 is blasphemy.

BMW enthusiasts should be thankful this time around.
F10 M5 was built around the M-DCT Tranny too.
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Old 01-10-2012, 04:22 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jacques chirac View Post
Manual Gearboxes are on the edge of extinction, because cutomers of High end sports car don't want them anymore.

Ferrari and Lamborghini already stated they won't produce manuals cars anymore.

In modern sportscars, The engine, the sequential gearbox and the diffferential all work together. Putting a manual box breaks the link.
you are reminding me why the Ferrari F40 is my favorite car of all time
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Old 01-10-2012, 04:27 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by jacques chirac View Post
Manual Gearboxes are on the edge of extinction, because cutomers of High end sports car don't want them anymore.

Ferrari and Lamborghini already stated they won't produce manuals cars anymore.

In modern sportscars, The engine, the sequential gearbox and the diffferential all work together. Putting a manual box breaks the link.
i wouldnt trust myself shifting a ferrari with that open gated shifter...
one mis-shift and i f*ck up a ferrari...
i'd let the machine shift it because the machine obviously can do a better job than me
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Old 01-10-2012, 04:47 PM   #26
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i wouldnt trust myself shifting a ferrari with that open gated shifter...
one mis-shift and i f*ck up a ferrari...
i'd let the machine shift it because the machine obviously can do a better job than me
You're talkin about the Auto mode. But can also shift when you want with paddles...
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Old 01-10-2012, 05:02 PM   #27
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Doubt the auto will be the "norm" outside of the US in atleast 10 years as we need to be abit more cautios of fuel consumption than you guys(why we dont drive around in bigblock for example)

Gas at $10/gallon along with heavy taxes makes alot of people choose low CO2g/km vehicles , auto trannys add CO2g/km.
New auto transmisstions are better at reducing emissions vs manuals. Computer controlling the shift points/engine load is superior to what the average manual driver can do. Add in the extra gears and optimized engine speeds and autos win out in this area.

That said, I'd still choose a manual since emissions and fuel economy don't necessarily enhance driving enjoyment.

In the US market, so few cars are sold with manuals the economy of scale isn't there anymore. Manuals are becoming an 'enthusiast only' option and we should expect them to cost more even though they are less complicated to build.
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Old 01-10-2012, 05:09 PM   #28
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New auto transmisstions are better at reducing emissions vs manuals. Computer controlling the shift points/engine load is superior to what the average manual driver can do. Add in the extra gears and optimized engine speeds and autos win out in this area.

That said, I'd still choose a manual since emissions and fuel economy don't necessarily enhance driving enjoyment.

In the US market, so few cars are sold with manuals the economy of scale isn't there anymore. Manuals are becoming an 'enthusiast only' option and we should expect them to cost more even though they are less complicated to build.
No, an auto will never exceed a manual at emissions(as it has more % loss).

As for engine speeds then proper ECO driving(75% in low gears and then switch in highest possible gear and cruise) will win over an auto.

City driving though and stop/go traffic im sure autos win
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Old 01-10-2012, 05:12 PM   #29
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lolwut? You guys arguing that the DCT or whatever shifts better than the manual, and you're correct.



HANDS DOWN, Manual transmissions are MORE FUN.
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Old 01-10-2012, 05:14 PM   #30
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Oh wow, thank God. For a minute, I was planning to sell my 323i non sport package and buy an E63 AMG, but since the new M5 comes in a manual, I think I'll go with that.
we got a badass over here.
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Old 01-10-2012, 05:17 PM   #31
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Old 01-10-2012, 05:23 PM   #32
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No, an auto will never exceed a manual at emissions(as it has more % loss).

As for engine speeds then proper ECO driving(75% in low gears and then switch in highest possible gear and cruise) will win over an auto.

City driving though and stop/go traffic im sure autos win
Not true. The 8 speed auto in the 2012 F30 3 series sedan gets better gas mileage then the 6 speed manual -

F30 328i - 36.7 highway manual / 37.3 highway auto
F30 335i - 29.77 highway manual / 32.66 highway auto

Source - http://www.f30driver.com/forum/showthread.php?t=879941

The F10 M5 also gets better gas millage with the DCT, but the 6 speed is more fun to drive. I'll be driving them both back to back soon I hope, will let you know what I think. I'm a die hard manual fan by the way, the F30 project 328i is coming with a 6 speed manual.

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Old 01-10-2012, 08:29 PM   #33
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Eh, I love the looks of the E60 better. This body style is too conservative for me.
+1 agreed. The new F10 M5 looks like an old 7-series to many people I've talked to (it's large as hell compared to the other gens of the 5's)
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Old 01-11-2012, 05:15 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Pir4t View Post
No, an auto will never exceed a manual at emissions(as it has more % loss).

As for engine speeds then proper ECO driving(75% in low gears and then switch in highest possible gear and cruise) will win over an auto.

City driving though and stop/go traffic im sure autos win
Here's the thing - emissions aren't just due to drivetrain loss. The extra gears and computer optimization on many current models make up for the drag, and then some. Automanuals in particular are only ~5% less efficient than a comparable manual - that's not much at all.

The newer direct injection turbo engines in particular benefit from computerized load control available from auto transmissions.
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Old 01-11-2012, 10:13 PM   #35
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Old 01-12-2012, 07:49 AM   #36
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Not true. The 8 speed auto in the 2012 F30 3 series sedan gets better gas mileage then the 6 speed manual -

F30 328i - 36.7 highway manual / 37.3 highway auto
F30 335i - 29.77 highway manual / 32.66 highway auto

Source - http://www.f30driver.com/forum/showthread.php?t=879941

The F10 M5 also gets better gas millage with the DCT, but the 6 speed is more fun to drive. I'll be driving them both back to back soon I hope, will let you know what I think. I'm a die hard manual fan by the way, the F30 project 328i is coming with a 6 speed manual.

Tim
i would like to see the gas mileage different when the auto doesn't have 2 gears more for highway driving... clearly that taller gear ratio will make up for the fact that it is an auto....
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