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Old 03-14-2012, 10:32 PM   #201
stoneweed1
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New DISA, idle control valve and throttle body clean and new O2 sensors

I put in the proper 330xi DISA, and since the area was exposed, I decided to pull out the Idle Control Valve and the Throttle Body and clean both. The Idle Control Valve was pretty dirty while the Throttle Body wasn't too bad. And this is after 201,000 miles.



I found that putting the two Air Hoses back into the MAF/Air Filter Box was the hardest part since the Air Hoses do not seem configured perfectly to curve from throttle body to the Air Filter Box. Seems like you had to stretch and manipulate the hoses and the potential for them to separate and come apart is high.

So after the new DISA installation and the cleaning and reassembly, the 330xi appeared to have more pep and power and the idle seemed smoother and quieter. And no Check Engine Lights.

So today, I decided to change out the Oxygen Sensors. Thought it was due after 201,000 miles of driving. They were quiet ashen in color. The O2 Sensor was alot easier and went smoother. I used the 7/8" oxygen sensor socket from Advanced Auto Parts and it worked well. A slightly larger length O2 sensor socket would have been nicer since the distal end where the wires stem from sensor seemed to be crushed and angled acutely, but it didn't damage them, but I can see how they could be damaged. I didn't notice any significant difference in the drive, maybe a little more throttle response, but that may be a placebo effect. When I do some highway driving later on this week, hopefully I'll get better MPG.
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Old 03-15-2012, 07:02 PM   #202
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stoneweed1,

Glad you were finally able to get the proper DISA in the car and get some of your maintenance sorted out.

Great pictures, what are you using for a camera?

Please update what you find once you get a few weeks of driving on the new DISA as far as mileage and overall performance.

You looked like you were able to really clean up everything well.

Any issues with the throttle body removal and/or getting it back together?
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Old 03-16-2012, 08:06 AM   #203
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Just an update to the issue with 2005 330ci (codes thrown P0300, P0301, P0302, P0303, P0304, P0305, P0306). She had 107,500 miles on her. My car idled very roughly and you can feel the lost in power. My car had been sitting in the the garage for the past 2 weeks as I've been trying several possible solutions. Here's what I did and the results:

1. Replaced all spark plugs and ignition coils ($180 parts). Did not fix the problem. Same codes as before, idled roughly, and loss of power.

2. Thanks to JFOG recommendation, I decided to take the plunge and replaced the entire CCV with a replacement kit I got from getbmwparts.com. What a pain in the behind that was. And while I had everything removed, I decided to replace the lower & upper intake boots. And instead of replacing just the silicon washer on my DISA valve, I replaced it with a brand new one from getbmwparts.com as well. Pulled and cleaned the ICV and throttle body. (Total parts cost me $450). Put everything back and prayed that it would fix the problem. At first, I was still getting a little rough idling but after it warmed up, everything seem to get better. I took her out for a drive and idle was fine and power was restored. Better yet - no code. I'll see how things go for the next couple of weeks. Hopefully - this issue will be a distance memory.

WOW - the oil separator valve was a pain to get to and remove but with some patience - it will eventually come out. Thanks again for all the suggestion from the thread.

Kiet
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Old 03-16-2012, 09:14 AM   #204
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koolkat1973,

Glad you sorted most of your issues out.

You probably did the correct thing given the mileage. You probably will not have to worry about these parts for at least another 8 years, assuming you are still driving the car at that point!

If your car has never had a fuel pump, put this in your list of things to do before it it leaves you stranded, pretty easy job to do, car does not need to be in the air. Might as well put a fuel pump relay in when doing the job as well.
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Old 03-17-2012, 02:53 AM   #205
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I'm still waiting for parts to arrive for a VC gasket change VANOS seals and rattle kit. But being the impatient sort, I ran a bead of RTV on the outside of the gasket leak and what a change! Seat of the pants says-better throttle response and more power right off the bat. MPG gauge says 3 mpg better mileage (up to about 24, I tend to DRIVE). And codes (lean mixtures) all cleared by themselves. I can't wait to get the new parts installed and see what happens! Still got my shudder though...looking at motor mounts next.
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Old 03-19-2012, 08:57 PM   #206
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Originally Posted by MJLavelle View Post
Do you have any codes for the camshaft sensors? I would definitely wait until one shows up, before spending $300. It could be one of the rotating parts attached to the engine is starting to put too much of a load on the system. Either the alternator, the power steering pump, water pump, or the AC compressor. This is just a guess on my part, but it won't cost you anything to take some belts off, and see if everything is spinning easily. The other guess I would make is the condition of your fuel injectors. You may consider sending them out to Witch Hunters, and get the injectors flowing correctly again. I don't see that mentioned much on here, but it was a pretty common thing with the Miata crowd. I know it helped my Miata back in the day. I am going to send mine to them soon. Of course, I am assuming that you don't have any codes, since you did not mention any. All of this advice may change if you are getting codes.
http://www.witchhunter.com/

Edit: This is from the Witch Hunters web site:
What are the symptoms of injectors that requires service?

Dirty or partially clogged injectors can show up in many ways and may include:

- "Check Engine" light or cylinder misfire code
- Poor idle
- Light throttle surging or bucking
- Denotation (knocking or pinging), causing possible engine damage
- Low speed hesitation and surging issues
- Emission problems
- Loss of performance
- Increased fuel consumption
Well after 2 years of chasing, I finally have a promising lead in solving my hesitation thanks to the above post. I took my fuel injectors off the fuel rail this past weekend and used a shop rag, compressed air, and brake cleaner to try to clear up any blockage and encourage proper flow.

3 injectors cleaned up nicely and when I blew compressed air into the chamber the injector seemed to respond and air exited through the two pinhole fuel ports. The other three were more stubborn and took multiple cleanings and a lot of compressed air, which lead me to believe that the injectors were extremely clogged.

I reinserted all 6 injectors and took the car for a quick spin. After a minor stumble in the beginning of my ride I noticed an improvement from 2000-3000rpms in 2nd and 3rd gear...way less noticeable hesitation.

I'm not 100% sure that this treatment has completely solved my problem but I am optimistic. In the next few weeks I am going to monitor the situation and send my injectors to Witchhunters to have them professionally cleaned. After thousands of dollars on throwing parts at the car I finally have a promising lead.

Last edited by juash; 03-19-2012 at 09:00 PM.
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Old 03-20-2012, 01:48 PM   #207
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Originally Posted by juash View Post
Well after 2 years of chasing, I finally have a promising lead in solving my hesitation thanks to the above post. I took my fuel injectors off the fuel rail this past weekend and used a shop rag, compressed air, and brake cleaner to try to clear up any blockage and encourage proper flow.

3 injectors cleaned up nicely and when I blew compressed air into the chamber the injector seemed to respond and air exited through the two pinhole fuel ports. The other three were more stubborn and took multiple cleanings and a lot of compressed air, which lead me to believe that the injectors were extremely clogged.

I reinserted all 6 injectors and took the car for a quick spin. After a minor stumble in the beginning of my ride I noticed an improvement from 2000-3000rpms in 2nd and 3rd gear...way less noticeable hesitation.

I'm not 100% sure that this treatment has completely solved my problem but I am optimistic. In the next few weeks I am going to monitor the situation and send my injectors to Witchhunters to have them professionally cleaned. After thousands of dollars on throwing parts at the car I finally have a promising lead.
Thank you for mentioning this. I wrote that post because I have never seen anyone mention professional cleaning of the injectors as a solution to idle and driveability issues on these cars. In the Miata community, this was common knowledge, and a fairly reliable solution for poor idle, and most people had their injectors cleaned every 60 to 90k miles. I have a set of 12 used injectors that are at WhichHunter right now, for cleaning and flow matching. The idea is that giving them a set of 12 to work with, they will be able to make a set of 6 that have nearly identical flow rates. I did the same thing with my Miata back in the day, and having 4 injectors flowing at the exact same rate did make a difference. I expect that doing the same with my BMW injectors will help as well. If you read the info on their website, they state that there is no way to adjust or increase the flow for most injectors. Once they are cleaned, they will flow at a certain rate, and there is some variation among injectors of the same type.
Even if you don't try to get a matched set of injectors, having them professionally cleaned will make a difference. Also, injector cleaner gas additives are no substitute for professional cleaning by a company that has the proper equipment.
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Old 03-21-2012, 12:13 PM   #208
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Ok guys went to get her diagnosed and these are my codes.

Don't mind the heater codes because they are related to my headers.

Besides those codes I have 7 others.

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Old 03-21-2012, 12:19 PM   #209
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Good tip on the injectors. Any way to half ass clean them at home?
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Old 03-21-2012, 02:00 PM   #210
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Good tip on the injectors. Any way to half ass clean them at home?
The Witchhunter website answers this question here:
http://www.witchhunter.com/methods1.php4

Their entire site is pretty informative:
http://www.witchhunter.com/

Basically, the only way to clean the injectors properly is to place them in an ultrasonic tank of cleaning solution, and cycle them off and on. They also replace several items that wear out over time. The last step is a backflush of the injectors, which is nearly impossible without the proper equipment. I think that they provide a lot of service, for $20 per injector. When you buy a "rebuilt" injector, you are only getting an injector that has gone through the exact same process they use. There are very few parts that are replaceable on an injector, and they are included in their $20 service. So, "rebuilt" injectors are just used injectors that have been cleaned, and had the serviceable parts replaced. And they charge $50-$60 for them.
I have bought 12 used injectors, that I am going to send in for service, and I am going to have them pick a set of 6 that have the closest flow characteristics. I am considering using the remaining 6 injectors for a loan/rental set that people could use while they send their injectors out to be cleaned. I am not sure exactly how it would work, or if there is even a demand for this. I know one of the problems with sending your injectors out is that you are not able to use your car, and that is a problem for most people.
Th cleaning that juash did was a little scary, considering how delicate the injectors are. I hope he decides to send them in for proper cleaning, since he saw an improvement with his DIY version.
I plan on putting my cleaned injectors in, and reporting the results before I do any other maintenance on my car, just to see how big of a role they play in the idle and performance issues. I may be wrong, but I am willing to spend the money to prove or disprove it.
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Old 03-21-2012, 02:27 PM   #211
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E46Enthusiast20,

Do you have a full width shot of the errors with the text?

I have not invested much time in your errors, but it looks like you have a Rich Bank and a Lean Bank.

First thing I would check, possibly try is swapping the O2 sensor connections??

Is there any way possible that you could have the O2 sensor wires connected to the wrong banks? I know it is possible to do on other BMW's, not sure on the 3 series, but if they reach, you might try this and see what happens as maybe they got swapped at some point?
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Old 03-21-2012, 02:33 PM   #212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MJLavelle View Post
The Witchhunter website answers this question here:
http://www.witchhunter.com/methods1.php4

Their entire site is pretty informative:
http://www.witchhunter.com/

Basically, the only way to clean the injectors properly is to place them in an ultrasonic tank of cleaning solution, and cycle them off and on. They also replace several items that wear out over time. The last step is a backflush of the injectors, which is nearly impossible without the proper equipment. I think that they provide a lot of service, for $20 per injector. When you buy a "rebuilt" injector, you are only getting an injector that has gone through the exact same process they use. There are very few parts that are replaceable on an injector, and they are included in their $20 service. So, "rebuilt" injectors are just used injectors that have been cleaned, and had the serviceable parts replaced. And they charge $50-$60 for them.
I have bought 12 used injectors, that I am going to send in for service, and I am going to have them pick a set of 6 that have the closest flow characteristics. I am considering using the remaining 6 injectors for a loan/rental set that people could use while they send their injectors out to be cleaned. I am not sure exactly how it would work, or if there is even a demand for this. I know one of the problems with sending your injectors out is that you are not able to use your car, and that is a problem for most people.
Th cleaning that juash did was a little scary, considering how delicate the injectors are. I hope he decides to send them in for proper cleaning, since he saw an improvement with his DIY version.
I plan on putting my cleaned injectors in, and reporting the results before I do any other maintenance on my car, just to see how big of a role they play in the idle and performance issues. I may be wrong, but I am willing to spend the money to prove or disprove it.
good reading. definitely on my to do list.
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Old 03-21-2012, 03:02 PM   #213
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E46Enthusiast20,

Do you have a full width shot of the errors with the text?

I have not invested much time in your errors, but it looks like you have a Rich Bank and a Lean Bank.

First thing I would check, possibly try is swapping the O2 sensor connections??

Is there any way possible that you could have the O2 sensor wires connected to the wrong banks? I know it is possible to do on other BMW's, not sure on the 3 series, but if they reach, you might try this and see what happens as maybe they got swapped at some point?
Swap both precats?

Last year I replaced one precat. I'm thinking it could be my other precat now..
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Old 03-21-2012, 03:17 PM   #214
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If the cables can reach easily, might be worth a try, you will know really quick either way I would guess?

I forget what all your symptoms are, but swapped O2 sensor wires would play havoc on trying to get a good running car?
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Old 03-21-2012, 03:26 PM   #215
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If the cables can reach easily, might be worth a try, you will know really quick either way I would guess?

I forget what all your symptoms are, but swapped O2 sensor wires would play havoc on trying to get a good running car?
My car stalls after every cold start. I usually keep my foot lightly on the pedal at the cold starts to hold the revs for a bit. After that she runs fine until the next cold start. It sometimes runs a bit rough randomly while driving but it goes away after the next time I start it. (warm start)
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Old 03-21-2012, 04:26 PM   #216
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I did the spray method to find any leaks and nothing. No hissing and no idle change.
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Old 03-21-2012, 07:05 PM   #217
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I will try to look over all your codes.

Cold start stall sounds like maybe SAP vacuum issues and DISA would be a big contributor in my opinion.

There are many schools of thought, compression tests, cylinder leakage tests, smoke tests and so on. I agree these are all good tests, but not everyone has all these tools in their tool box.

So I say replace all the bad rubber parts, they need to be replaced regardless then move forward.

I have to cross reference all the codes that showed up as you cut off the descriptions. The descriptions are better than the actual code numbers!
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Old 03-21-2012, 07:16 PM   #218
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You thought you had issues, mine is killing me!!!!
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Old 03-21-2012, 08:06 PM   #219
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I will try to look over all your codes.

Cold start stall sounds like maybe SAP vacuum issues and DISA would be a big contributor in my opinion.

There are many schools of thought, compression tests, cylinder leakage tests, smoke tests and so on. I agree these are all good tests, but not everyone has all these tools in their tool box.

So I say replace all the bad rubber parts, they need to be replaced regardless then move forward.

I have to cross reference all the codes that showed up as you cut off the descriptions. The descriptions are better than the actual code numbers!
There weren't any descriptions.

That's all it says. The rest of the sheet are non engine faults that have nothing to do with this stuff.
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Old 03-21-2012, 09:41 PM   #220
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Hi all,
So I'm getting ready to do the VC gasket kit and VANOS seals ( and rattle kit since I have it open) this weekend. Anyone who has done these have any words of wisdom on the procedures? Feedback is always welcome! Thanks.
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