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Old 12-19-2012, 02:30 PM   #421
Viktimize
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfoj View Post
I would bet your VANOS seals are not your problem, but it never hurts to change them.

If you have a 2003 330 you should have a vacuum controlled SAP, if your big hose from the air pump to the diverter valve has standard hose clamps, then the diverter valve has a vacuum port and the hose is likely broken along the valve cover in MANY places.

BTW the SAP system sends vacuum to the diverter for up to 90 seconds on cold starts. So this may be your 1-2 minute issue?

What are your fuel trims when the engine is warmed up?

Please explain what you have replaced so far as you said you have replaced "everything" that could leak vacuum.
It is my 2002 325i that is having the cold start issues. So far I've replaced VCG, intake tubes, CCV and hoses, TB and DISA o-rings, cleaned ICV. Probably other stuff that I'm forgetting off the top of my head too.

Definitely going to check the SAP hose though. Much rather replace that then have to buy another VCG that I just replaced this past summer while I am doing the VANOS.
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Old 12-21-2012, 09:43 PM   #422
astor
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Ok.Since I feel like driving with 5 cylinders for awhile I was all over this thread. Time to time SES light goes off and car drives like charm, then all of a sudden specially when there is stop and go traffic or steep road or even stop light, the car starts acting like misfiring,rough idling, and stops the engine. This is a manual transmission car.
So far, I have replaced the spark plugs,bought one coil and swapped the coils. Today i pulled out the DISA and found the O-ring flat.
Went to Auto Advance and got a O-ring made for Ford V8 280 Eng. 1991-94 Water outlet for $7, Made by federal mOngul part # 35489.
I have not test driven yet, but the O-ring fits perfect.
codes I got are
P0102,0313,0300,1353,1343,1345
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Old 12-21-2012, 10:55 PM   #423
jabela
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Could be the fuel pump. When was it last changed?
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Old 12-31-2012, 05:59 PM   #424
funkadelik
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Thanks for the DIY! Going to have to read up on this carefully. I'm starting to have issues with my m3. Seems like the idle fluctuates between 400-600RPM when Im cruising off a freeway (60-70MPH) and in neutral. It's caused the engine to shut down on me twice recently. Thanks again!
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Old 12-31-2012, 06:28 PM   #425
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M3 will be a slightly different animal, not everything on the M3 is the same as the other 6 cylinders.

Suggest you check your thermostat, see 3rd link in my signature to display the temp on the OBC. M should run no less than 79C.

Also check your ICV as a possible option as well as fuel pump, see 2nd link in signature.
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Fuel pump failures - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=929501

Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temps, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose fan switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299
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Old 12-31-2012, 08:49 PM   #426
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Awesome post! This one was much better than your fuel pump thread.
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Old 01-02-2013, 06:50 PM   #427
E46er75
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I'm still trying to figure out my vibration when idling (in "D" gear). It also, drops 500 RPM when idling and then returns back. I have replaced the DISA valve, checked ALL hoses for leaks and cracks.. This has me puzzled? When summer comes the car runs perfect, but in the winter it runs like a POS. I don't believe its the intake gasket or anything related. It smooths out as soon as I hit the gas. From what I read, I also don't beleive it is the "vanos".

This car is really pissing me off at times, I think the E46 was designed for women in the winter, considering mine is like a VERY large and expensive vibrator at this point that I personally do NOT find pleasure in driving when cold out...
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Old 01-02-2013, 09:02 PM   #428
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Is your problem car the Xi? They are known for vibrations at idle due to driveline issues.

As for the engine speed, has the ICV been cleaned? Do you have any codes? What are your fuel trims like? What is the coolant temp running?

See 3rd link in my signature to bring up coolant temp and display it directly on the OBC. Engine should run close to 90C consistently.
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Fuel pump failures - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=929501

Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temps, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose fan switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299
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Old 01-02-2013, 10:35 PM   #429
E46er75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfoj View Post
Is your problem car the Xi? They are known for vibrations at idle due to driveline issues.

As for the engine speed, has the ICV been cleaned? Do you have any codes? What are your fuel trims like? What is the coolant temp running?

See 3rd link in my signature to bring up coolant temp and display it directly on the OBC. Engine should run close to 90C consistently.
ICV was also replaced the same time the DISA was (forget to mention that in my last post)

Car is not throwing any codes.

I replaced the thermostat due to it being stuck wide open about 15k ago temp is at a steady 194f/90c.

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Old 01-03-2013, 11:21 AM   #430
chillinhardinanE46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E46er75 View Post
I'm still trying to figure out my vibration when idling (in "D" gear). It also, drops 500 RPM when idling and then returns back. I have replaced the DISA valve, checked ALL hoses for leaks and cracks.. This has me puzzled? When summer comes the car runs perfect, but in the winter it runs like a POS. I don't believe its the intake gasket or anything related. It smooths out as soon as I hit the gas. From what I read, I also don't beleive it is the "vanos".

This car is really pissing me off at times, I think the E46 was designed for women in the winter, considering mine is like a VERY large and expensive vibrator at this point that I personally do NOT find pleasure in driving when cold out...
.

I have a very similar problem to yours. So ill be keeping an eye on this post.
Car ran fine during the summer, but as soon as it got cold it had some rough idleing. Like you I cleaned the ICV, TB, replaced DISA, replaced spark plugs, head gasket, vanos seals, checked for leaks.

Finally a SES light came on with code P0430. Since its emisions i took it to bmw under warranty (SULEV 150k/15yrs emission warranty). They "looked" at it and said my CATS are fine I probably have an air leak or a faulty MAF.

So no I will be getting the car smoked and once i determine there are no leaks, I will proceed to check that the MAF is working correctly. If all these things are okay like i hope. I will walk down to BMW stick my foot in the service advisors ass and then ask him nicely to refund my money and fix my cats.

Weird thing is the advisor tried to sell me a smoke test for 335. In the report it stated they did an EVAP smoke test and found multiple leaks after the MAF with no specification to what part was leaking i.e. lower elbow, fuel vacuum line etc. So im not sure if they did smoke it or not since they tried to sell me the service

I do have an erratice RPM needle movement on cold start up. this is what happens.
The car is started.
Fine for 15 seconds. needle is stable
(I think at this point the engine computeris switching from startup mode to dricve mode ) This is when the car begins to shake and need starts to jump a bit as it goes down to idle speed. If i drive off at this point the car is okay and the shaking does not persist.

At stop signs the idle is a bit rough, and does not have an erratic needle movement which is why i dont beleive i have an air leak. I culd be wrong which is why i will still have the test done.

Any input would be greatly appreciated

I have not yet touched the coil packs on the car except for one that was changed due to misfiring. Could a bad coil pack possibly be the culprit? Do cyl 1,2,3, pertain to bank 1 and cyl 4, 5, 6 pertain to bank 2? If so ill swap them all at once and see what happens.

Last edited by chillinhardinanE46; 01-04-2013 at 12:03 AM.
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Old 01-10-2013, 09:24 PM   #431
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P0491 = Secondary Air Injection System Insufficient Flow (Bank 1)
P0492 = Secondary Air Injection System Insufficient Flow (Bank 2)

these are the codes i am getting right now for my 2002 330ci

I have ongoing issues with the mixture of this car. A year ago i had the 174 vacuum leak code. the idle was either fine or it was high because of the leak. The car was idling around 1000. I drove it on a 700 mile trip and got 27mpg on the highway.

As soon as i got home i pulled it in the shop to do maintenance on it.
I replaced
~fuel filter
~spark plugs
~ccv
~vacuum lines to the SAP but not the hard plastic line...just the lines behind the intake. 3 vacuum caps and any other vacuum line i could find.
~lower intake boot
~throttle body o ring
~cleaned the ICV
~cleaned the MAF
~disa Oring

All this at once, instead of one at a time to isolate any problems.

When I was finished my mpg dropped by 2 and my idle was 550 in gear with a slight vibration. It was not doing this before because my vacuum leak seemed to cause high idle in the first place but it somehow seemed like normal car idle. The idle is consistent

It ran with the 25mpg until recently

Now im getting SAP codes and my mpg has dropped to 21. The oil which was just changed 1000 miles ago is black indicating poor mpg.

I have yet to start diagnosing the SAP code but it seems i either have one problem which has gotten worse...or multiple problems which are getting worse.

My MAF and o2 sensors are the originals. I dont want to just throw money at it. Is there a way to test the O2 and maf to see if they are defective or causing my problems.

What is the fuel pressure at idle supposed to be as well as the vacuum at idle?

What are thoughts on this.
Tools i have are vac gauge
pressure tester and pa soft scanner 1.4.0
MY OBC button is broken

Last edited by glhx; 01-10-2013 at 09:32 PM.
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Old 01-10-2013, 09:36 PM   #432
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glhx View Post
P0491 = Secondary Air Injection System Insufficient Flow (Bank 1)
P0492 = Secondary Air Injection System Insufficient Flow (Bank 2)

these are the codes i am getting right now for my 2002 330ci

I have ongoing issues with the mixture of this car. A year ago i had the 174 vacuum leak code. the idle was either fine or it was high because of the leak. The car was idling around 1000. I drove it on a 700 mile trip and got 27mpg on the highway.

As soon as i got home i pulled it in the shop to do maintenance on it.
I replaced
~fuel filter
~spark plugs
~ccv
~vacuum lines to the SAP but not the hard plastic line...just the lines behind the intake. 3 vacuum caps and any other vacuum line i could find.
~lower intake boot
~throttle body o ring
~cleaned the ICV
~cleaned the MAF
~disa Oring

All this at once, instead of one at a time to isolate any problems.

When I was finished my mpg dropped by 2 and my idle was 550 in gear with a slight vibration. It was not doing this before because my vacuum leak seemed to cause high idle in the first place but it somehow seemed like normal car idle. The idle is consistent

It ran with the 25mpg until recently

Now im getting SAP codes and my mpg has dropped to 21. The oil which was just changed 1000 miles ago is black indicating poor mpg.

I have yet to start diagnosing the SAP code but it seems i either have one problem which has gotten worse...or multiple problems which are getting worse.

My MAF and o2 sensors are the originals. I dont want to just throw money at it. Is there a way to test the O2 and maf to see if they are defective or causing my problems.

What is the fuel pressure at idle supposed to be as well as the vacuum at idle?

What are thoughts on this.
Tools i have are vac gauge
pressure tester and pa soft scanner 1.4.0
You need to check the fuel trims. I think you can with pa soft but any decent obd ii scanner can. I'm guessing the minor vacuum leak leaned the car out making the MPG better. Really poor MPG could be a sign of a bad fuel pump too. Is start with fuel trims and checking the maf voltage as well along with fp.
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Old 01-10-2013, 10:49 PM   #433
glhx
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+ i have this happening. I can only feel it when im riding in the car. never when im driving


I have the dreaded jerk/hesitation in 2nd & 3rd gear at 2000-3000rpms. Ive read just about every possible thread on the internet and there is no consensus on a fix. I need some help and fast or I'm going to do the unthinkable and sell the car.

The intensity of the problem varies from light to moderate hesitation...but is present every time I drive.

Most repeatable when lightly/moderately accelerating in 2nd gear thru 2000-2700rpms. Will repeat in 3rd gear at exactly 2100 rpm - 30mph. Seems to have trouble decelerating smoothly thru this RPM range. Driveline related....no issues with RPM range in Neutral. Car runs great from 3000RPM's to redline & highway driving above 40 mph
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Old 01-10-2013, 10:54 PM   #434
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glhx View Post
+ i have this happening. I can only feel it when im riding in the car. never when im driving


I have the dreaded jerk/hesitation in 2nd & 3rd gear at 2000-3000rpms. Ive read just about every possible thread on the internet and there is no consensus on a fix. I need some help and fast or I'm going to do the unthinkable and sell the car.

The intensity of the problem varies from light to moderate hesitation...but is present every time I drive.

Most repeatable when lightly/moderately accelerating in 2nd gear thru 2000-2700rpms. Will repeat in 3rd gear at exactly 2100 rpm - 30mph. Seems to have trouble decelerating smoothly thru this RPM range. Driveline related....no issues with RPM range in Neutral. Car runs great from 3000RPM's to redline & highway driving above 40 mph
Have you changed the VANOS seals yet?
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Old 01-10-2013, 11:49 PM   #435
jfoj
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glhx View Post
+ i have this happening. I can only feel it when im riding in the car. never when im driving


I have the dreaded jerk/hesitation in 2nd & 3rd gear at 2000-3000rpms. Ive read just about every possible thread on the internet and there is no consensus on a fix. I need some help and fast or I'm going to do the unthinkable and sell the car.

The intensity of the problem varies from light to moderate hesitation...but is present every time I drive.

Most repeatable when lightly/moderately accelerating in 2nd gear thru 2000-2700rpms. Will repeat in 3rd gear at exactly 2100 rpm - 30mph. Seems to have trouble decelerating smoothly thru this RPM range. Driveline related....no issues with RPM range in Neutral. Car runs great from 3000RPM's to redline & highway driving above 40 mph
A few things.

1. You need to check for a soft failed thermostat, some of your comments lead me to believe you have a bad thermostat. See this thread here - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491
If you OBC is not working, I think in PA Soft you can get some real time data for the engine but it is hard to find.

2. Did you check your DISA vacuum diaphragm to make sure the DISA can actually function properly?

3. Your original engine idle was too high, it seems closer to the proper idle now, maybe a slight bit low?

4. See the 2nd link below in my signature. You may have a soft fuel pump. Pressure and volumes are listed in this link. After about 3k RPM under heavy throttle many times the engine actually goes back into Open loop and runs on fixed fuel and timing maps. So you may have a leaning condition causing your issues?

5. You need to get a tool that can read real time data. If you have a Andriod tablet or phone, a $5 App and a $15 adapter and you have a $20 tool that can do a lot for you.

6. If you have original O2 sensors at this point, suggest you consider replacement of the pre cat O2 sensors. Bosch only with the connectors. Amazon many times had very good prices. I get mine usually for under $50 delivered in 2 days, but you can shop them around.

Would be curious to hear about your coolant temp, fuel trims and O2 sensor readings.
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Solve your misfires, lean codes, rough idle - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=897616

Fuel pump failures - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=929501

Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temps, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose fan switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299
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Old 01-11-2013, 01:30 AM   #436
glhx
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interesting you bring up the thermostat. I ran a 180 mechanical thermostat for a while. It started to leak at the housing so i replaced it with a 190 but the mileage was dropping before that happened. it ran 25mpg with the 180 degree for a year. I became bored of messing with it leaking so i decided to run a factory thermostat and will be putting it in tomorrow when it arrives. It was the only part i replaced that was out of the ordinary but it was highly recommended by some people as the factory thermostat runs hot. I think we talked of that last year. I had a feeling it could drop my mileage and suspected the 2 mpg drop was caused by that but it wasnt a big deal....oil stayed brown for a long time. I dont think however that it is causing the high rich mixture but i will post my progress. Could thermostat be causing low idle. i dont know as i did everything at once. the problem may have been there all along masked by high idle which was fixed by ccv replacement.
I know the fuel was dirty because i took out the tank 2 sending unit and cleaned the contacts. this did something strange....it used to be very slow to move all around...now it moves up halfway very fast like it should....and takes a day to get from half way mark to the full mark. maybe the fuel pump side is as dirty as the drivers side was...may start running techron every once in a while after i clean that pump side...if thats the cause. I would like to know why there is a spring tensioned piece of the tank 2 sending unit. what does this do? and how loosely should it move.

I did check disa diaphragm but will recheck it to see if it holds vacuum. I also checked the mech and it was solid.....that was 20,000 miles ago though. I have several extra o rings so ill just remove and inspect it.

The original idle was high. but when i dropped it into drive it did not vibrate. I dont think it would if i could get even 50 more idle rpms out of it. When it dropped before it would go to 700. I think 600 would be good but the 520 to 550 it is now is too low.

will check the link and read it thoroughly. test the fuel pressure at idle to see it i do have soft failure and switch the relays.....horn relay is probably mostly unused. I may just replace it for the heck of it. the rubber seal was cut on both sides so someone has been in there before.

I have a droid 4.....what app should i use and where can i get adapter. Will the app give me fuel trims and o2 readings?

will post all findings as they come.
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Old 01-11-2013, 06:50 AM   #437
jfoj
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If you have a Droid, go to the Google Play Story and purchase Torque Pro for $5.

Go to Amazon and buy this - http://www.amazon.com/Soliport-Bluet...eywords=elm327

Do not buy the cheaper one on Amazon as it ships from Asia and take forever.

Make sure anything you buy stat Fullfilled by Amazon.

You can read real time temps, fuel trims and other data.
__________________
Solve your misfires, lean codes, rough idle - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=897616

Fuel pump failures - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=929501

Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temps, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose fan switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299

Last edited by jfoj; 01-11-2013 at 07:06 AM.
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Old 01-11-2013, 07:50 AM   #438
jfoj
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Once you get your Torque Pro up and running, you need to monitor all 4 of your O2 sensors. For your P0491 = Secondary Air Injection System Insufficient Flow (Bank 1) & P0492 = Secondary Air Injection System Insufficient Flow (Bank 2) this is be determined by the O2 sensor warm up behavior. You likely O2 sensor heater issues and/or lazy sensors.

This assumes you have a vacuum controlled SAP combi valve? Have you confirmed that you have vacuum to the combi valve for 90 seconds on cold start?

I see you have a 2002 330, I assume your air pump check valve is vacuum controled? I do not think it was until later in 2003 that the 330 went to the SAP system without the vacuum hose and the MAF on the SAP input?

The other possibility maybe mixed up O2 sensor wiring??

Suggest you read this thread for some ideas - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthr...ight=readiness

Hopefully not the situation, you ran a colder thermostat for a long time, I know on other BMW models you could have severe carbon build up blow the SAP air passages in the cylinder heads. Hopefully this is not your situation.

Also as for your engine idle speed, the air distribution manifold on top of the engine is actually for the controlling the engine idle. See diagram attached, this manifold is actually called the Turbulence Manifold. This can also get build up in it and become restricted and impact idle performance. Again, a cold thermostat and chronically cold running engine is not a good thing in this situaiton. If you were to compare a new and old Turbulence Manifold you could probably fell the weight difference if you held the 2 in your hand if the original had carbon/gas/oil vapor build up in it.

I believe you were the one that may have also removed your CCV system? Also the CCV system is an integral part of the intake airflow in these cars, so it is possible removing the CCV may have an impact on the engine idle somewhat as well?

Good luck, just a few things to think about.
Attached Files
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__________________
Solve your misfires, lean codes, rough idle - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=897616

Fuel pump failures - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=929501

Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temps, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose fan switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299
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Old 01-11-2013, 12:42 PM   #439
jabela
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I like this OBDII module. It's small enough to always leave in place without worrying about hitting it with your foot. It works just as well as the bigger Elm327 modules.
http://www.meritline.com/bluetooth-o...--p-93106.aspx
Also available here.
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Super-Mini-EL...c5a538&vxp=mtr
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Last edited by jabela; 01-11-2013 at 12:43 PM.
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Old 01-11-2013, 02:19 PM   #440
CrazyOneToo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jabela View Post
I like this OBDII module. It's small enough to always leave in place without worrying about hitting it with your foot. It works just as well as the bigger Elm327 modules.
http://www.meritline.com/bluetooth-o...--p-93106.aspx
Also available here.
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Super-Mini-EL...c5a538&vxp=mtr
Who makes them? I read about alot of clones being sold.
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