----> 2012 Formula 1 Season Chat Thread <----

I just meant there is no shortage of capable drivers at the moment. Lots of ppl left with no drive.

Originally Posted by dmax

Exactly. Open to the public just like Monaco!

Anyway, I won't be racing on it, but I'm just excited to be able to drive on it!

You know they remove the kerbing right?

It's just a street with no history unlike Monaco streets.

you can go drive 'the track' right now! let me know your lap time

Originally Posted by simsima325

I just meant there is no shortage of capable drivers at the moment. Lots of ppl left with no drive.

With the addition of another returning F1 champ, the grid sure is going to be choked with guys who know how to win. I make it Alonso, Hamilton, Vettel, Schumie, Button & Kimi as F1 champs - that'd be a pretty good top 6 grid at the first race!

Am I the only one who thinks that Webber and Massa jsut don't have what it takes? I know Webber was close in 2010 as was Massa when Hamilton won the title on the last corner in Brazil, but these years aside, are they really exceptional F1 drivers? (I'd include Button and Kimi in this non-exceptional grouping too, BTW)

Originally Posted by rohde88

You know they remove the kerbing right?

It's just a street with no history unlike Monaco streets.

I'm driving the course before the race...I know I can't drive while it's still set up for the race.

Just being able to drive on the same course, even at the speed limit will let me appreciate the race that much more. That's all I'm saying. I've followed F1 longer than anyone here, I'm pretty sure. Finally, I get to drive on a course...and it's only 20 mins. away. I can't not cruise the circuit, and I bet if you were nearby, you'd do the same.

Maybe someone with a gopro wants to join me!

Oh, and there's plenty of history on those streets...NJ was one of the first colonies, and before that, native Americans, probably Wooly Mammoths at some point--just not exciting history!

Caterham first to launch 2012 car after pics leak online



Story here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/form...e/16727904.stm

Button is an exceptional driver. He has become better with age, where as some people have slipped, Massa and Webber are 2 of them.

But it really does matter what car you are in. Barrichello almost won the championship with Brawn, then he sat with Williams for their worst season ever. I don't think his abilities changed much in that time period.

So its tough to say with certainty.

Originally Posted by dmax

I'm driving the course before the race...I know I can't drive while it's still set up for the race.

Just being able to drive on the same course, even at the speed limit will let me appreciate the race that much more. That's all I'm saying. I've followed F1 longer than anyone here, I'm pretty sure. Finally, I get to drive on a course...and it's only 20 mins. away. I can't not cruise the circuit, and I bet if you were nearby, you'd do the same.

Maybe someone with a gopro wants to join me!

Oh, and there's plenty of history on those streets...NJ was one of the first colonies, and before that, native Americans, probably Wooly Mammoths at some point--just not exciting history!

Fair enough. If you pick me up from NYC, I'll bring my gopro and Iphone 4S mount.

Originally Posted by Goughie

Am I the only one who thinks that Webber and Massa jsut don't have what it takes? I know Webber was close in 2010 as was Massa when Hamilton won the title on the last corner in Brazil, but these years aside, are they really exceptional F1 drivers? (I'd include Button and Kimi in this non-exceptional grouping too, BTW)

I don't know how to feel about this either. Massa definately looks worse since the accident at the Hungaroring. I think he used to be exceptional, especially the year he almost won the title. But since then, not much. I don't know if it is a head game or what. But he was a fighter and now he usually is playing defense against Sauber or Williams.

Webber has moments of brilliance, but not consistently brilliant. I don't consider him exceptional

Alonso is (IMO) a worse driver today than he was at Renault or McLaren. I don't see any fire out of him.

I keep calling Button "average". But then he pulls a drive like he did in Canada last year (or Brazil '09) where he looks like a mad man. I think he has it in him, and I think he uses it more often than he gets credit for. I prefer Button on an aggressive charge (like he did at Monano last year with 3 stops) rather than a "conserve the tires" approach. I think Button was more aggressive in 2011 than in previous years, and I hope the trend continues.

But so much in F1 is the car and luck. Button's first win was luck. Hulkenburg's pole position was luck. Vettel is the only current driver than I can recall having a merit-based win in an inferior car (Torro Rossa at Monza in the rain). How far up would Vettel be today in a Sauber? 5th at best? Driver's can only do so much. It's hard to gage.

dmax. go drive it right now.

Originally Posted by simsima325

Button is an exceptional driver. He has become better with age, where as some people have slipped, Massa and Webber are 2 of them.

But it really does matter what car you are in. Barrichello almost won the championship with Brawn, then he sat with Williams for their worst season ever. I don't think his abilities changed much in that time period.

So its tough to say with certainty.

I do agree that the car makes a big difference and that Button has improved hugely. I'm not sure that he's as consistent as he needs to be to be really great, however. Whilst conceding that he was really erratic last season, you always feel that Lewis could get more out of a car more often than Jensen can. Perhaps now the issues of his father and GF have been put to bed he'll come back with more focus this year?

As for Barrichello, he was convincingly blown away by Button in the 2009 season. That said, it was a hell of an achievement to take the BAR/Honda and turn it around into the Brawn and wipe the floor with the field in year 1 of existence - the assessment of the rulebook changes and the subsequent engineering leap was remarkable.

Originally Posted by dmax

I'm driving the course before the race...I know I can't drive while it's still set up for the race.

I bet if you were nearby, you'd do the same.

I would do it too. Go at 3am and you could probably hit apexes. It might be worth a wreckless driving ticket.

Originally Posted by rohde88

Fair enough. If you pick me up from NYC, I'll bring my gopro and Iphone 4S mount.

Originally Posted by simsima325

dmax. go drive it right now.

Ron, when you coming up? If you're here now, and you're serious...I am too!

Simsima...I'm on it...sort of! Go pro would be nice to have on board so you guys can share the excitement of seeing an e46 pretending to be an F1 car at 35 mph! LOL

In for the vid this should be good.

ouch.
that front nose looks horrible!


But, I am very excited for the new season! I really hope we won't see the 2008 Kimi, more like the Kimi back in Mclaren days.

Originally Posted by Goughie

With the addition of another returning F1 champ, the grid sure is going to be choked with guys who know how to win. I make it Alonso, Hamilton, Vettel, Schumie, Button & Kimi as F1 champs - that'd be a pretty good top 6 grid at the first race!

Am I the only one who thinks that Webber and Massa jsut don't have what it takes? I know Webber was close in 2010 as was Massa when Hamilton won the title on the last corner in Brazil, but these years aside, are they really exceptional F1 drivers? (I'd include Button and Kimi in this non-exceptional grouping too, BTW)

i think webber has a chance. vettel is the only one in his way imo. massa on the other hand ehh . just like you said except for one season he hasn't really been that impressive. how many times did he actually qualify in the top five? i think there was a race in 2011 season where he didn't even make q3. (was it canada?) Im excited to see what williams, FI, torro rosso, and sauber do this season. maybe one of them can challenge the power-house teams.

Originally Posted by 325seeeye

Alonso is (IMO) a worse driver today than he was at Renault or McLaren. I don't see any fire out of him.

Review last year's races. Fred drove the wheels off the red crapwagon. Compare his performance to Massa's. The only thing Alonso has lost is a competitive car. Maranello stopped development on the 2011 chassis midway through last season, and Alonso still managed some brilliant finishes.

Ferrari started work on their 2012 car early, so look for that jumpstart to pay off in Australia. The 2012 car should be a force majeure.

2012 will be Alonso's resurgence IMO

Originally Posted by Lair

Review last year's races. Fred drove the wheels off the red crapwagon. Compare his performance to Massa's. The only thing Alonso has lost is a competitive car. Maranello stopped development on the 2011 chassis midway through last season, and Alonso still managed some brilliant finishes.

Ferrari started work on their 2012 car early, so look for that jumpstart to pay off in Australia. The 2012 car should be a force majeure.

Originally Posted by Goughie

With the addition of another returning F1 champ, the grid sure is going to be choked with guys who know how to win. I make it Alonso, Hamilton, Vettel, Schumie, Button & Kimi as F1 champs - that'd be a pretty good top 6 grid at the first race!

Am I the only one who thinks that Webber and Massa jsut don't have what it takes? I know Webber was close in 2010 as was Massa when Hamilton won the title on the last corner in Brazil, but these years aside, are they really exceptional F1 drivers? (I'd include Button and Kimi in this non-exceptional grouping too, BTW)

Kimi isn't going to do anything.

I hate Webber, I feel like he's a waste of that Red Bull seat.

Massa hasn't been the same since he got hit in the head.

Originally Posted by simsima325

Button is an exceptional driver. He has become better with age, where as some people have slipped, Massa and Webber are 2 of them.

But it really does matter what car you are in. Barrichello almost won the championship with Brawn, then he sat with Williams for their worst season ever. I don't think his abilities changed much in that time period.

So its tough to say with certainty.

IMO, Rubens has become slower and more mistake prone.

Originally Posted by 325seeeye

I don't know how to feel about this either. Massa definately looks worse since the accident at the Hungaroring. I think he used to be exceptional, especially the year he almost won the title. But since then, not much. I don't know if it is a head game or what. But he was a fighter and now he usually is playing defense against Sauber or Williams.

Webber has moments of brilliance, but not consistently brilliant. I don't consider him exceptional

Alonso is (IMO) a worse driver today than he was at Renault or McLaren. I don't see any fire out of him.

I keep calling Button "average". But then he pulls a drive like he did in Canada last year (or Brazil '09) where he looks like a mad man. I think he has it in him, and I think he uses it more often than he gets credit for. I prefer Button on an aggressive charge (like he did at Monano last year with 3 stops) rather than a "conserve the tires" approach. I think Button was more aggressive in 2011 than in previous years, and I hope the trend continues.

But so much in F1 is the car and luck. Button's first win was luck. Hulkenburg's pole position was luck. Vettel is the only current driver than I can recall having a merit-based win in an inferior car (Torro Rossa at Monza in the rain). How far up would Vettel be today in a Sauber? 5th at best? Driver's can only do so much. It's hard to gage.

Again, I feel like Massa isn't the same driver he was before the accident.

Button has had some great drives in the McLaren, but it's hard to forget all those shitty years at Honda.

Originally Posted by Lair

Review last year's races. Fred drove the wheels off the red crapwagon. Compare his performance to Massa's. The only thing Alonso has lost is a competitive car. Maranello stopped development on the 2011 chassis midway through last season, and Alonso still managed some brilliant finishes.

Ferrari started work on their 2012 car early, so look for that jumpstart to pay off in Australia. The 2012 car should be a force majeure.

Agreed. Alonso is one of the best (if not the best) at getting every last tenth out of a car. He rarely makes mistakes, and always brings the car home.

Should be an interesting season. I hope Lewis melts down again and gets canned.