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E46 Xi Forum
The E46 XI was produced from 01-05 in sedan and touring body styles. Powered by either a 2.5L inline 6 in the 325xi or a 3.0L inline 6 330xi. Discuss all thing about BMW AWD E46 'Xi' here.

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Old 01-18-2012, 12:31 PM   #1
DenverSooner
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Exclamation Rogue Engineering Fcabs

Just an FYI for all of you XIers looking for new/better fcabs:

I ordered fcabs, pre-pressed into the oem lollipop, from Rogue for my 2003 325xi back in mid-December. The first time they sent me fcabs for a e46 M3. (They assumed that all e46's use the same fcabs.) I quickly returned and they sent me the correct bushing, but pressed into lollipops from an e36. They said that since the e46 xi shares the same bushing as the e36, they assumed that they also shared the same lollipop. Wrong again! They have recently sent me another set which they swear is the correct bushing and lollipop...however, they forgot to ship the poly bushing with the housing and are shipping that separately.

Anyway, a month later and still yet to see if they got it right the third time! (The fcabs are supposed to arrive in a few more days.) All in all, it may be a superior product and the staff was accommodating with re-shipping the product until they got it right, however, should a company that prides itself on engineering specific products really be that inept at truly understanding their product fitment???

Hopefully my experience serves others wishing to order the same products to double check that the company understands clearly the first time around. Apparently, it wasn't enough for me to call and specify that I needed fcabs and lollipops for a 2003 325xi...you have to tell them there is a difference!
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Old 01-18-2012, 12:52 PM   #2
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Hah sorry to hear that. I think waiting for stuff in the mail is the most frustrating part about ordering things. I was looking at my p/o's records (all done at BMW dealership) and every time the fcab went bad, they replaced the entire control arm? Is this necessary?

Also what about the rtabs? Same idea?
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Old 01-18-2012, 05:37 PM   #3
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What a bummer! Maybe we should all order now while it is fresh in their minds!
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Old 01-18-2012, 05:54 PM   #4
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Seriously! Hopefully these are good products. I haven't seen much in the way of reviews regarding their fcabs. To my knowledge, they sell the only fcabs that are pre-pressed for the XIs. Couldn't even find power flex for the XIs that were pre-pressed. Guess its not an issue if you have or know of someone with their own hydraulic press. I wasn't even looking for "performance" fcabs, just something better than the crap that the stealership sells!

I'll give a review (assuming I finally get the right ones) next week after I install them.
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Old 01-19-2012, 01:11 AM   #5
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please take some pics of these when they come in
i was thinking of these aswell and would like to know your impressions
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Old 02-02-2012, 09:06 AM   #6
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So, I finally received the THIRD shipment from Rogue, with what they swore were the correct bushings and lollipops this time. Once again, they were wrong!

What they sent was the right size bushings (60 mm from an E36) but simply took e36 lollipops, rounded off teh nub on the back that shows which direction to mount them, and switched them around. At first glance it looks okay, but they didn't fit. See the pic below where I have them side by side in my hand; the bolting end of the lollipops are lined up relative to one another, but the rogue bushing rides about a 1/2" higher than the oem. They end up hitting the frame and are unable to mount flush on the subframe. There is very little clearance...

I finally found a local shop and paid $40 to have them press out the old bushings and press the rogue bushings into my oem lollipops. They said they would refund me for the shop cost and the $80 I paid them for their lollipops, but I am still waiting for that to materialize. (Only 7 weeks after I ordered them.)

The bushing itself gets 5 stars...rides and corners great without giving up much comfort. The company gets ZERO stars.

I don't think they should be able to use the word "Engineering" in their company name; that implies that someone there is an actual engineer and should know how to measure and use the right parts for the right car. Maybe they should just be called "Rogue" which implies that they do what they want and hope it works out in their favor?

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Old 02-02-2012, 02:01 PM   #7
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That is disgraceful! You would have been better of if you purchased the bushings alone andhad a shop press them in. But there's no way could have known this would happen. Thanks for the insight.
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Old 02-02-2012, 04:14 PM   #8
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OP- you bought solid FCABS?! Whoa.

Dispute the charge on your credit card if they don't pay up....
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Old 02-03-2012, 08:31 PM   #9
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sorry to hear all the trouble you've had!
do you have any pics of these installed? im debating weather i should get these vs the powerflex ones i already have waiting to be put in.
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Old 02-04-2012, 12:52 AM   #10
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OP- you bought solid FCABS?! Whoa.
that was my first thought too! I thought those were "Race Only" type bushings. Don't they ride rough as Hell? There is almost nothing there to flex! That is a hardcore bushing.
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Old 02-05-2012, 08:15 PM   #11
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What I do not get is everyone going with these modified bushing for the lower control arms, I see this with the 3 & 5 series.

What everyone fails to realize for street use, you cannot control the road surface. When replace the bushings with something that does not give or flex as much as OEM, you transfer all the energy from the road variation into the tire, wheel or somewhere else within the suspension.

Yes these bushings may last longer than many others, but at what cost.

Every chain needs a weak link, so the stock LCAB's is only what I run. Yes they may not last for ever, but they are designed to be sacrificial. I hit a pot hole in my 5 series last night (dark, rainy night, could not see the pothole,only felt it!) and I could actually feel how the bushing compressed, very different feel than I usually get. I would hate to think what would have happened if I had ultra stiff track style bushings in my car when I hit that pothole.
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Old 02-05-2012, 11:30 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by jfoj View Post
What I do not get is everyone going with these modified bushing for the lower control arms, I see this with the 3 & 5 series.

What everyone fails to realize for street use, you cannot control the road surface. When replace the bushings with something that does not give or flex as much as OEM, you transfer all the energy from the road variation into the tire, wheel or somewhere else within the suspension.

Yes these bushings may last longer than many others, but at what cost.

Every chain needs a weak link, so the stock LCAB's is only what I run. Yes they may not last for ever, but they are designed to be sacrificial. I hit a pot hole in my 5 series last night (dark, rainy night, could not see the pothole,only felt it!) and I could actually feel how the bushing compressed, very different feel than I usually get. I would hate to think what would have happened if I had ultra stiff track style bushings in my car when I hit that pothole.
I would tend to agree. I hope you have reinforcement plates for the shock towers, at least. But I would bet that the first thing that would go would be that mounting flange for the lolipop. There is going to be a lot of energy transferred to it and the mounting bolts. I would also wonder how reinforced that area of the body is where those bolts screw in to as well. There is almost zero material on those things to flex.
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Old 02-06-2012, 10:44 AM   #13
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Good points, jfoj and MJLavelle. I'll be sure to let you guys know if I have a subframe fall apart or a front shock shoot through my hood.

From what I can tell so far, the ride/suspension is not compromised. Though, as you can tell from the pic of my original OEM, there wasn't much left of it anyway. My handling has improved 10 fold and I can't tell much of a difference in road noise or "feeling" the road that much at all. Yes, OEMs were made for comfort, but not durability. If they made these to be such a weak link, it would have been nice if they were also made to be easily replaced, like the Rogue or PowerFlex. BTW, these are the "Street" use bushings, not the track bushings. There is more poly inside the aluminum housing that you don't see from the front. Guess I'm the guinea pig in this experiment. But, that's how we learn, right?
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Old 02-06-2012, 10:59 AM   #14
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sorry to hear all the trouble you've had!
do you have any pics of these installed? im debating weather i should get these vs the powerflex ones i already have waiting to be put in.
I don't have any pics after the install...sorry. And, I really don't have an opinion either way as to use these over the PowerFlex, as I have never used the PowerFlex.
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Old 02-06-2012, 11:37 AM   #15
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Good points, jfoj and MJLavelle. I'll be sure to let you guys know if I have a subframe fall apart or a front shock shoot through my hood.

From what I can tell so far, the ride/suspension is not compromised. Though, as you can tell from the pic of my original OEM, there wasn't much left of it anyway. My handling has improved 10 fold and I can't tell much of a difference in road noise or "feeling" the road that much at all. Yes, OEMs were made for comfort, but not durability. If they made these to be such a weak link, it would have been nice if they were also made to be easily replaced, like the Rogue or PowerFlex. BTW, these are the "Street" use bushings, not the track bushings. There is more poly inside the aluminum housing that you don't see from the front. Guess I'm the guinea pig in this experiment. But, that's how we learn, right?
Even though it may have sounded like it, I did not mean for my comments to be a criticism of you or your decision. It is pretty clear that jfoj was making a criticism though. Mine was more an observation of what looks like an almost solid bushing. I have seen ones like this for "race only" applications. It just seems a bit much for the street. But, I will be the first to admit if I am wrong. And I am definitely not one of those "stock or nothing" people. I will be upgrading mine soon, and I am considering Powerflex bushings, which are a combination of urethane and harder rubber. They are definitely harder than stock, but not as hard as a urethane bushing. But, I will be installing shock tower reinforcement plates as well. And if those have more flex material inside, then they are not much different than the side capture plates they make for the FCAB's. I am guessing that front and rear aluminum is just there to prevent the flex material from bulging outward, in that case. If so, then they may not stress things as much as it looks like they would. But from the pics, it looks like a solid block of aluminum, with a small sleeve of urethane inside it. If that were the case, I would guess that you would not be saying they were "comfortable". So, as you said, someone has to be the guinea pig for new technology. Who knows, this may be the best solution for wear vs comfort. I was just worried that they were basically solid aluminum bushings. Good luck with them!
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Old 02-07-2012, 12:15 PM   #16
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Thanks. I have was thinking of getting a Powerflex set up as well and switch them out just to compare feel and handling. As jfoj stated, I should be able to "feel the bushing compress." -Which is actually quite funny to me! Of all things (tires, shocks, springs, axles, ball joints) to absorb impact, he could actually feel his bushings? Really?? Doubtful.

Anyway, though the Rogue bushing seems great, the company is a nightmare. I will NEVER deal with them again. Still waiting for a refund, 51 days later. Total amateurs! Be warned.
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Old 02-07-2012, 02:44 PM   #17
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^powerflex fcabs don't flex. They rotate. Another reason to buy e36 m3 centered powerflex fcabs and not offset.

OE fcabs have the feeling of stretching a rubber band when turning. Powerflex fcabs feel like you are rotating a wheel about its axis.
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Old 02-07-2012, 03:14 PM   #18
DenverSooner
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Same with the rogue fcabs for the XI. (Which are e36, 60mm) They also are made to rotate, not much for flex at all...if any...
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