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Gun Talk
Are you a gun fanatic as well? If so, you'll want to talk to other owners about what you own in this forum.

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Old 03-03-2012, 09:41 PM   #1
Locutus09
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Why would you want a +P round?

Hey Guys,

I was buying some Speer Gold Dots JHP for my dad for his HD gun (he currently had ball ammo in it and was annoying me).

Anyways, a friend told me to get 124 Gr +P rounds. However, at the store I saw 147 Gr. as well

I bought a box of each and told my dad to go to the range and shoot a couple of both to see how the gun likes it (S&W M&P9).

With that being said, is one round better than the other with the +P? Exactly what is a +P round? I see it's a higher pressure rating, but what exactly does that achieve, higher velocity?

I'm also searching for ammo for my .40. Should I go with the lighter Grain and faster round as well? It will at least give me less recoil, correct? I don't understand though why there is no +P rounds for the .40 though.

Last question. I know there is alot of answers, but is Speer Gold Dots a decent JHP?

Reading this, http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Self_De.../index.htm#9mm

It seems I made a good choice, but is there anything better?

Thanks
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Old 03-03-2012, 11:55 PM   #2
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.40 is a near or max round so +p doesn't exist.

9mm and some other calibers have some wiggle room and achive higher velocity and this can help with expansion and penetration. 9mm has standard, +P and even +P+..


+P isn't always the best way to go depending on whether you or your gun can handle it.. for example my keltec Pf9 can handle +P but I do not carry it with them because of the recoil(harsh).

Gold dots are good but some recent modern designs are better.. you can chase your tail trying to find perfect ammo but the most important part is making hits with it..

115gr vs 124gr vs 147gr is a different debate however.

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Old 03-03-2012, 11:57 PM   #3
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I would say buy and try and search for info. My loads are perfect for me. I carry 100% of the time and shoot the rounds I carry besides the range rounds. Unless you shoot the rounds you carry, you are making a mistake. People will talk grains and brands all day and night.
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Old 03-04-2012, 02:09 AM   #4
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+P means higher pressure. +P+ means basically an over-pressure cartridge that is right at the limit of maximum SAAMI safety specs. The purpose of creating higher pressure cartridges is for velocity. With 9mm, the +P makes the round that much faster, since it's already a very fast cartridge. The higher pressure then gives the round more energy, as we know that Force=mass x acceleration (F=ma).
As stated above, you will not find any .40S&W +P, since it's loaded to the hilt as much as it can be. Everything in the 10mm cartridge class (10mm, .40S&W, .357sig) is basically near max pressure. The 9mm is high pressure, but has room for more. The .45ACP is low pressure, and has room for more as well.

9mm +P is a lot louder and recoils harder, but it's worth it. The ammunition is faster and therefore, is better at barrier penetration. Standard 124gr is around 1150fps, with +P ranging in the 1200-1220fps range. 147gr will gain about 50fps at top end, but will stay subsonic. The 115gr is where the most drastic difference is for the 9mm. 9mm 115gr ranges from 1135-1210fps, and it goes up to 1300fps for +P+. The best overall bullet weight is 124-127gr, as it has higher mass than the the 115gr, but still remains supersonic.

As for bullet selection, that article by DocGKR is pretty up to date. If you go to the other forums, particularly Lightfighter.net and M4carbine.net, you'll see that DocGKR is basically top of the food chain for ballistic experts. The Gold Dot is a great bullet, and while it's been around for a long time, it has been updated throughout the years. The best rounds on the market are the Federal HST, Speer Gold Dot, Hornady XTP and Flexlock Critical Duty.
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Old 03-04-2012, 08:56 AM   #5
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Because +P is higher pressure with more recoil, there is less chance of stovepiping if the gun is being held correctly.

An example would be my Glock17L. Because the slide is sooooo long, it takes more energy to cycle is properly. The +P makes up that difference.


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Old 03-08-2012, 05:19 AM   #6
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Where does Remington's .45acp Golden Saber BJHP 230gr or the 185gr +P stand in quality/performance?
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Old 03-08-2012, 01:02 PM   #7
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It's a less popular round, but nothing that would make me think that it's an undesirable round. I have heard that the expansion of the Bonded bullet is not as consistent and uniform, and that other bonded rounds are considered to be more reliable with consistent expansion and weight retention. Still, it's not a terrible round from the info I've gathered.
230gr vs 185gr +P is the question. For soft tissue, the 230gr is an excellent round. For barrier penetration, the higher speed of the 185gr +P is beneficial, as it's the heaviest supersonic .45ACP load on the market.
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Old 03-09-2012, 02:18 PM   #8
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I don't have any RGS's in my supply so was wondering if I should get a case.
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Old 03-09-2012, 02:40 PM   #9
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I will say that I question Remington's ammunition production and development. They don't even come close to doing a fraction of the testing and marketing that Hornday and ATK (Federal, Speer) do, or even Winchester. This makes me question the technology behind the ammunition development, and whether it can stack up against the heavy hitters like the HST, Gold Dot and XTP.
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Old 03-10-2012, 12:25 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reedo302 View Post
+P means higher pressure. +P+ means basically an over-pressure cartridge that is right at the limit of maximum SAAMI safety specs. The purpose of creating higher pressure cartridges is for velocity. With 9mm, the +P makes the round that much faster, since it's already a very fast cartridge. The higher pressure then gives the round more energy, as we know that Force=mass x acceleration (F=ma).
As stated above, you will not find any .40S&W +P, since it's loaded to the hilt as much as it can be. Everything in the 10mm cartridge class (10mm, .40S&W, .357sig) is basically near max pressure. The 9mm is high pressure, but has room for more. The .45ACP is low pressure, and has room for more as well.

9mm +P is a lot louder and recoils harder, but it's worth it. The ammunition is faster and therefore, is better at barrier penetration. Standard 124gr is around 1150fps, with +P ranging in the 1200-1220fps range. 147gr will gain about 50fps at top end, but will stay subsonic. The 115gr is where the most drastic difference is for the 9mm. 9mm 115gr ranges from 1135-1210fps, and it goes up to 1300fps for +P+. The best overall bullet weight is 124-127gr, as it has higher mass than the the 115gr, but still remains supersonic.

As for bullet selection, that article by DocGKR is pretty up to date. If you go to the other forums, particularly Lightfighter.net and M4carbine.net, you'll see that DocGKR is basically top of the food chain for ballistic experts. The Gold Dot is a great bullet, and while it's been around for a long time, it has been updated throughout the years. The best rounds on the market are the Federal HST, Speer Gold Dot, Hornady XTP and Flexlock Critical Duty.
Thanks for the clarification. Any suggestions for grain on the .40 round?
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Old 03-10-2012, 12:44 PM   #11
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Typically in 40 most guys I know find the heaviest gr - in that case the 180.

For some reason, I've seen a lot of people gravitate towards 230gr in 45acp, but it's not necessarily always the 147 gr in 9mm....124+p tends to be pretty popular also.
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Old 03-10-2012, 02:45 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Locutus09 View Post
Thanks for the clarification. Any suggestions for grain on the .40 round?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rush4theYehO View Post
Typically in 40 most guys I know find the heaviest gr - in that case the 180.

For some reason, I've seen a lot of people gravitate towards 230gr in 45acp, but it's not necessarily always the 147 gr in 9mm....124+p tends to be pretty popular also.
I prefer 180gr for .40S&W. You have the choice of 155gr, 165gr and 180gr for most common setups. The difference between the 155gr and 165gr is about 30fps, and both are supersonic. Speer makes a 200gr .40S&W load which is good for soft tissue. It basically matches the ballistics of the 230gr .45ACP. The goofy thing about the .40 is that there is a big difference between bullets of different manufacturers, and the difference between bullet weights is a lot more. The heavier the bullet, the deeper it penetrates. The general consensus is that the 180gr performs the best. Every agency that I know that carries a .40 uses 180gr.

As noted above, 230gr is a good round for .45ACP, and the 124gr+P is ideal for 9mm.
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Old 03-10-2012, 02:54 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Reedo302 View Post
I prefer 180gr for .40S&W. You have the choice of 155gr, 165gr and 180gr for most common setups. The difference between the 155gr and 165gr is about 30fps, and both are supersonic. Speer makes a 200gr .40S&W load which is good for soft tissue. It basically matches the ballistics of the 230gr .45ACP. The goofy thing about the .40 is that there is a big difference between bullets of different manufacturers, and the difference between bullet weights is a lot more. The heavier the bullet, the deeper it penetrates. The general consensus is that the 180gr performs the best. Every agency that I know that carries a .40 uses 180gr.

As noted above, 230gr is a good round for .45ACP, and the 124gr+P is ideal for 9mm.
Roger that, duly noted. Thanks for the help Reedo.
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Old 03-30-2012, 03:15 AM   #14
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I have yet to see any +p+ ammo in a store
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Old 03-30-2012, 05:11 AM   #15
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I have yet to see any +p+ ammo in a store
I rarely see them myself, and only in LE stores. Most of the time, it's a special order or online purchase.

For 9mm, it's only available in 115gr and 124gr, and I've only seen it produced by Federal/Speer (ATK) and Winchester. Federal only has it in 124gr +P+ Hydra-Shoks, and they have less velocity and energy than the 124gr +P HST. Speer offers it in the 115gr +P+ GDHP (Gold Dot), and it's very fast with high energy.

CorBon's +P JHPs are much faster and have more energy than any other company's +P+ loading of similar weight.
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