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Go Back   E46Fanatics > Tuning & Tech > Driveline, Engine & DME Tuning

Driveline, Engine & DME Tuning
Talk about driveline improvements, NA tuning and DME tuning your E46 BMW here. This includes diffs, intakes, exhausts, chips, software and OBD tuning.

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Old 05-15-2012, 05:53 AM   #81
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Old 06-11-2012, 06:36 AM   #82
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First Major props to all the work you are doing. I understand that finding the "cheap" solution may cost more the first time but save the rest of the comunity in the future.

I'll throw in my thoughts and questions. Sorry if they sound stupid but without the hardware in hand the answers are not that obvious. So looking for your thoughts or thoughts of those that have handled the parts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoloII///M View Post
Adding a shim under the ring gear wouldn't affect the clutches at all, but that's not what the OP was talking about doing.
This seems the simplest solution. It was pointed out that it may make it harder to install in the case. Made me think could the ring gear be left loose around the carrier and bolts installed to hold the ring gear AFTER it's slid in the case? Would allow cocking the ring gear to give clearance while installing the assembly in the housing and reducing the amount to grind of the housing. This may not work but had to ask.

2nd question. What was the conclusion from the bearing supply house on the E46 bearings. I've purchased a number of bearings for Transmission rebuilds direct from the bearing houses using just the part# from the bearing. Can you post what are the part#'s marked on the bearings (not the BMW part#)? It would be very unusual to not be able to find an interchange.

3rd question. Are there any other factory LSD carriers that would perhaps work in the BMW housing. Even non BMW makes?

Thanks and great job so far no matter what the outcome

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Old 06-28-2012, 01:32 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thaniel View Post
First Major props to all the work you are doing. I understand that finding the "cheap" solution may cost more the first time but save the rest of the comunity in the future. l
its not a "cheap solution:"

assuming you had a e30 LSD lying around in your garage for $100 that you bought on CL in smelly mystery state of being and condition
rebuilding that LSD unit to the most basic stock specs will cost ~$200 in internals

+
$160 in bearings/seals

+
XYZ labor hours of grinding, machining, custom spacer-ing

$100-200 in just hassle, beer to your machinist friend, gas to putz around between shops.


a custom billet top cap can cost between $50- to make on the $(beer) labor rate, $400 on the expensive labor rate (cash).


so $600-1000 cost to get this thing fitted. Then new proprietary high grade hardware...high temp thread locker.... it will add up.


AND the stub axels have different position snap rings on an e46 than e30..... the location of snap ring keeps the axel in place. I have had custom snap ring grove cut before, but its not that easy to get perfect - one will probably be sacrificing at least one LSD unit core to do this.



Quaife for a 325i/330i e46 non-m is $1350 and direct plug and play....also never wears out.



Trust me, I would have done this game if it was reliability feasible as I have plenty of fully built e30/36 LSD centers and a milled E46 non-m case here (and many gear ratios).



What is the market able to afford cost wise for a LSD solution for E46 non-M (compact case 188K drive)???

Was considering casting original LSD capsule units and speccing proprietary brand new internals (clutches/spiders/ramps) to just fit inside a E46 non-M

is $900 for a Plug and play LSD too much ?
is $800 too much? I'm sure OBX is able to do a garbage torsen at $500 or so, and many will just buy/fit and risk the explosion potential.

do e46 non-M owners want a Clutch LSD unit? or are those guys just forking up for OSG units?

a completed OSG final drive unit cost is north of 3K. Quite an expensive item compared to book value of an earlier (more likely track car candidate) non-m e46 these days

Last edited by wanganstyle; 06-28-2012 at 01:45 PM.
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Old 06-29-2012, 08:45 AM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wanganstyle View Post
its not a "cheap solution:"

assuming you had a e30 LSD lying around in your garage for $100 that you bought on CL in smelly mystery state of being and condition
rebuilding that LSD unit to the most basic stock specs will cost ~$200 in internals

+
$160 in bearings/seals

+
XYZ labor hours of grinding, machining, custom spacer-ing

$100-200 in just hassle, beer to your machinist friend, gas to putz around between shops.


a custom billet top cap can cost between $50- to make on the $(beer) labor rate, $400 on the expensive labor rate (cash).


so $600-1000 cost to get this thing fitted. Then new proprietary high grade hardware...high temp thread locker.... it will add up.


AND the stub axels have different position snap rings on an e46 than e30..... the location of snap ring keeps the axel in place. I have had custom snap ring grove cut before, but its not that easy to get perfect - one will probably be sacrificing at least one LSD unit core to do this.



Quaife for a 325i/330i e46 non-m is $1350 and direct plug and play....also never wears out.



Trust me, I would have done this game if it was reliability feasible as I have plenty of fully built e30/36 LSD centers and a milled E46 non-m case here (and many gear ratios).



What is the market able to afford cost wise for a LSD solution for E46 non-M (compact case 188K drive)???

Was considering casting original LSD capsule units and speccing proprietary brand new internals (clutches/spiders/ramps) to just fit inside a E46 non-M

is $900 for a Plug and play LSD too much ?
is $800 too much? I'm sure OBX is able to do a garbage torsen at $500 or so, and many will just buy/fit and risk the explosion potential.

do e46 non-M owners want a Clutch LSD unit? or are those guys just forking up for OSG units?

a completed OSG final drive unit cost is north of 3K. Quite an expensive item compared to book value of an earlier (more likely track car candidate) non-m e46 these days
Personally if I still had a non-M, I would've been willing to go to $1000 for a plug and play LSD. $3000 (which was the going rate when I still had my 330) would be too much IMO.

I noticed the 330ds came with 215k differentials. Do you know if those cases would fit to the non-diesel carrier? And if they do, do you think those would be large enough to fit an E36 (or even E46 M) LSD?
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Old 06-29-2012, 09:11 AM   #85
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Wavetrac LSD looks like a good buy at $1300.
http://wavetrac.net/application.htm
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Old 06-29-2012, 12:15 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by TerraPhantm View Post
Personally if I still had a non-M, I would've been willing to go to $1000 for a plug and play LSD. $3000 (which was the going rate when I still had my 330) would be too much IMO.

I noticed the 330ds came with 215k differentials. Do you know if those cases would fit to the non-diesel carrier? And if they do, do you think those would be large enough to fit an E36 (or even E46 M) LSD?
IIRC 215mm new standard is used in the e92 M3. Not completely sure about the compatibility on the diesel stuff, do have a e92M manual diff avail that I could build on though.

e46M uses a standard older style 210mm unit
for USA model e36 its only 188mm or 168mm (4 cylinders). euro e36M3 3.2 with 6mt had a 210mm

330DS probably has a really really low final drive- to match diesel low redline and instant turbo tq.

Are you trying to put a low gearing in your e46M to accommodate a turbocharger/supercharger etc? you can fit in a 2.65 LSD or 2.82 LSD from older 210mm into your e46M differential. Factory intended interchange design by bmw. or are you trying to add an LSD to your 330d? that thing breaks tires free quickly when angry


Quote:
Originally Posted by jabela View Post
Wavetrac LSD looks like a good buy at $1300.
http://wavetrac.net/application.htm

Wavetrac is very popular with e92 crowd. Price is very important when it comes to LSD; as the e92 guys have to often pay to have the welded ring gear extracted and tapped for bolts

Last edited by wanganstyle; 06-29-2012 at 12:19 PM.
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Old 06-29-2012, 12:23 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by wanganstyle View Post
IIRC 215mm new standard is used in the e92 M3. Not completely sure about the compatibility on the diesel stuff, do have a e92M manual diff avail that I could build on though.

e46M uses a standard older style 210mm unit
for USA model e36 its only 188mm or 168mm (4 cylinders). euro e36M3 3.2 with 6mt had a 210mm

330DS probably has a really really low final drive- to match diesel low redline and instant turbo tq.

Are you trying to put a low gearing in your e46M to accommodate a turbocharger/supercharger etc? you can fit in a 2.65 LSD or 2.82 LSD from older 210mm into your e46M differential. Factory intended interchange design by bmw. or are you trying to add an LSD to your 330d? that thing breaks tires free quickly when angry





Wavetrac is very popular with e92 crowd. Price is very important when it comes to LSD; as the e92 guys have to often pay to have the welded ring gear extracted and tapped for bolts
Well in the ETK, under the notes for the diff gasket, it says "215k" for the 330d/Cd. As does the Alpina diff in the Alpina parts catalogue actually (which was available in 3.15 and 3.64 fwiw). Based on ebay pics of the 330d diff, it has a similar mounting style to the non-M diff (two points up front, 1 rear).

http://realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?...34&hg=33&fg=10


I'm not trying to do anything to my car, I'm just curious about what all the options/possibilities are for LSD on the non-Ms. If I got a shorter ratio for my car, it'd probably be a 3.91
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Old 07-02-2012, 03:27 PM   #88
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Hey Guys,

I'm sorry to leave you all hanging, but some things have gone on personally. I'm going to have to drop the project.

I'm willing to sell what I have for $75 shipped (less than what Raj and I paid). I'll also offer guidance along the way if you want to do this.

Other than that, I'll be putting it back together and selling it elsewhere.

PM me if you're interested.
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Old 07-03-2012, 12:04 PM   #89
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This is my current play on the game in a milled 330i e46 non m case.
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LSD dreamers thread

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?p=14989087
WSG Billet CNC LSD production Development
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...pdate-backdate
S54B32+E36 1997 M3 Sedan+DTA S100 alpha N
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum....php?t=1437471
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Old 07-03-2012, 01:36 PM   #90
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Looks about right!
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Old 08-25-2012, 10:59 AM   #91
wanganstyle
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Some progress. Slow + expensive but steady progress. Bay area USA labor is the only way to support my local economy.

Notes:

I bought the testing sample e30 core with scar from aggieE46; to continue the development spirit ; the scar is photographed for good karma!

my machinist here in the SF bay area did the following:

1. remove lip for ring gear mating from OEM LSD
2. make original spacer ring from raw steel to press fit over the center capsule
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http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?p=14989087
WSG Billet CNC LSD production Development
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...pdate-backdate
S54B32+E36 1997 M3 Sedan+DTA S100 alpha N
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum....php?t=1437471

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Old 08-25-2012, 12:11 PM   #92
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Pretty cool. Glad progress is still being made on this.

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Old 08-26-2012, 02:54 PM   #93
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Pretty cool. Glad progress is still being made on this.

Sent from my Dell Streak
Somebody has to do it! I build a decent number of OS Gikens for clients but the cost is ~3k for a completed unit. OS units are beautiful and top of the line; more ideal for a full racing car trying to shave seconds off a lap time than someone wishing to do the occasional burnout or play on the street. If the budget is there ....... sure; it's very street able and silent! But not many have the disposable liquidity for an high end aftermarket LSD install. Aftermarket LSD is also extremely tune able and above most DIY for setting; the parts and specific tools are not cheap; nor is 80-250W OSG oil at $56/L (46 non m requires 1.5L of fluid per change)

Target complete unit with modified original e30 LSD center (ready to fill and run) hopefully can be sub 1.5k on these. Target for a fully built diff with gearset installed in housing is the price of a wave track or quaife unit alone+ bearings for install. We will see how feasible this is when the hardware and spacer has been tested.

Anyone in the local bay area have a full drifting e46 non m that is currently running a welded and want to stress test this diff?
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LSD dreamers thread

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?p=14989087
WSG Billet CNC LSD production Development
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...pdate-backdate
S54B32+E36 1997 M3 Sedan+DTA S100 alpha N
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum....php?t=1437471

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Old 08-27-2012, 06:55 PM   #94
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A day of labor later.....Not beer money here.

1. prior machine work had a perfectly round and spec'ed center unit with ring gear press lip REMOVED
2. custom steel spacer cut from billet, fitted to EXACT center barrel specs; with press on only fit
3. holes bored out on digital mill to match the OEM bmw M12 holes
4. machined spacer lip was then cut down to match exact BMW press-fit tolerance for ring gear.

This will not be walking off or going anywhere. Billet USA made spacer with proper press fit for ring gear.

Now for custom high strength fasteners! Local USA BAY AREA supply. No china crap here; although the bay bridge is largely cast in china - my machine shop is known for metallurgy and industry testing fixtures for steel

pictured is a 100% bay area product; USA labor. Please support American labor!
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LSD dreamers thread

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?p=14989087
WSG Billet CNC LSD production Development
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...pdate-backdate
S54B32+E36 1997 M3 Sedan+DTA S100 alpha N
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum....php?t=1437471

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Old 08-29-2012, 06:09 AM   #95
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Nice

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Old 08-29-2012, 10:28 AM   #96
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Nice

Sent from my Dell Streak

thanks!

I will have one completed 2.93 LSD unit with Motorsports finned rear cover tentively by end of next week; any bay area locals want to test it?


I can setup for full track/drift or drag use with 3 or 4 clutch discs and 40-60% lock up to really stress out the adaptation. You would be welcome to take it on track at any local track, to any drag strip, dyno it etc- I'm inviting somebody to try to destroy my $1k worth of custom work
Most ideal would be a ESS supercharged e46 or Turbocharged AA E46.

I shipped an OS giken unit for a ESS supercharged car to asia last month; beautiful and expensive unit! This one can ideally be commissioned for less than 1/2 the cost

milling detail for clearance of aftermarket LSD into e46 unit; hopefully the OEM unit will not require much more clearance






Two E46 housings are getting milled right now for LSD fit clearance and I have one more LSD center from e36M (late model large oiling window) that will be fitted with a thicker ring gear spacer next week for a 3.46 ratio unit.
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WSG Billet CNC LSD production Development
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...pdate-backdate
S54B32+E36 1997 M3 Sedan+DTA S100 alpha N
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum....php?t=1437471

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Old 08-30-2012, 05:27 PM   #97
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I'll be happy to try break it, my 330d is 500lbs ft of torque at the moment
Looking to hit 700lbs in next few months.
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Old 09-04-2012, 12:36 AM   #98
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I'll be happy to try break it, my 330d is 500lbs ft of torque at the moment
Looking to hit 700lbs in next few months.
you wont be able to unless its a full drift car then it may happen

local is key!!! unless sombody wants to eat the fedex air bill!
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WSG Billet CNC LSD production Development
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...pdate-backdate
S54B32+E36 1997 M3 Sedan+DTA S100 alpha N
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Old 09-24-2012, 11:00 AM   #99
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Hey, nice to see someone is doing this conversion!
So it looks like the cost of this unit will be about 1500$ or am I wrong?
This is close in price with the wavetrack unit, would you say that the
machined e30 lsd is better than the wavetrack or torsen for street or is it the other way around?
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Old 10-01-2012, 09:44 AM   #100
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Hey, nice to see someone is doing this conversion!
So it looks like the cost of this unit will be about 1500$ or am I wrong?
This is close in price with the wavetrack unit, would you say that the
machined e30 lsd is better than the wavetrack or torsen for street or is it the other way around?
For a completed unit ready to bolt in around 1.5k.

If you buy an aftermarket unit ala OS Giken or quaife/wavetrack you still need to pay somebody to install it. Costs of those completed are 2.2-3.1k; machine work still required.

OS is the best but cost is quite a lot more when all done.

Completed units will be done in a few weeks, cars are already slotted for them
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