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Old 04-16-2012, 02:28 PM   #21
pilotnbr1
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Update 4-16-12

I have replaced the DISA and found some improvement to my problems. My old DISA had a leaking diaphragm and the o-ring where it met the intake was worn. The car no longer stalls when coming to a stop but it does do some hunting, about 600 to 900 rpm range at its worst. So I still have a vacuum leak or leaks. But I am eliminating them one at a time! Replacing the DISA has also restored a great deal of low range torque and power.

On a side note I noticed that my replacement of the vanos oil line and oil filter housing gasket did not completely solve my oil leak. I still have some oil leaking on the drivers side on the "waffle" part of the block next to the oil filter housing. I suspect the oil separator / crankcase vent valve (ccv). I bit the bullet and ordered a new ccv and associated hoses. These new hoses may also solve the vacuum leak. I will let you know what I find when I get this job done.

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Old 04-16-2012, 02:32 PM   #22
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I have replaced the DISA and found some improvement to my problems. My old DISA had a leaking diaphragm and the o-ring where it met the intake was worn. The car no longer stalls when coming to a stop but it does do some hunting, about 600 to 900 rpm range at its worst. So I still have a vacuum leak or leaks. But I am eliminating them one at a time! Replacing the DISA has also restored a great deal of low range torque and power.

On a side note I noticed that my replacement of the vanos oil line and oil filter housing gasket did not completely solve my oil leak. I still have some oil leaking on the drivers side on the "waffle" part of the block next to the oil filter housing. I suspect the oil separator / crankcase vent valve (ccv). I bit the bullet and ordered a new ccv and associated hoses. These new hoses may also solve the vacuum leak. I will let you know what I find when I get this job done.

Luke
Hey Luke, One of the things I went through while trying to solve my idle/lean issues was that my Cvv was bad, the tell tale was when I pulled my oil cap off of the engine and heard a heavy suction noise, the car would "stumble" for a second then would return to a rough idle state- also the oil dipstick was making a strong suction noise when I pulled it, go start your car and check these things.

Last edited by ThreeFinger; 04-16-2012 at 02:34 PM.
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Old 04-30-2012, 12:49 PM   #23
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Maybe check and replace Intake and exhaust side camshaft position sensors? worked a charm on my idle problems
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Old 04-30-2012, 07:25 PM   #24
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No heavy suction noises to report with either the oil fill cap removed or dip stick. Of course the car does change rpm and stumble a little as you have created a huge vacuum leak by opening either the cap or stick.

In the next 48 hours I am going to replace the ccv all associated hoses, dipstick rings, and the icv hose/connection. Hopefully I will have something positive to report. BTW after I replaced the disa valve the car did better temporarily but as I put "history" on the computer it degenerated again.

I have already replaced the intake and exhaust cam sensors.
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Old 05-07-2012, 02:33 PM   #25
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After changing the ccv, all hoses to the ccv, 3 dipstick o-rings, and putting 50 plus miles on the car there is some improvement to the idle hunting. The car no longer occasionally stalls. Most of the time coming to a stop the rpm variation is in a 200 rpm range. Rarely it will more aggressively "hunt" in about a 400 rpm range. In all cases now the car does settle down on its own vs me having to give it some gas to stop the rpm gyrations... It is still throwing oxygen sensor adaptive limit codes for both banks. "e3" and "e4" from table 19 on the Peake tool.

So... I think I did some good regarding the idle hunt issue and on the plus side repaired an oil leak.. I still have an elusive vacuum leak.
For anyone chasing a vacuum leak FYI- there is a capped port on the oil separator itself... Might be worth checking that cap if you have a vacuum leak or oil leak before you go replacing the entire CCV system.
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Old 05-07-2012, 05:26 PM   #26
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huniting idle can also be VANOS seals. Seems like you've chased down as many vacuum leaks as you can I would look into the VANOS seals
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Old 05-08-2012, 12:58 AM   #27
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I am not so sure that the vanos seals are the problem... Here are the symptoms of failing vanos from the website of Beisan Systems who sell the vanos seal kits---

Overall loss of torque and power, particularly in the lower RPM range, < 3k. Bogging then surging at 3k RPM. Uneven power distribution and RPM transition. Engine hesitations in the lower RPM range, < 3k. Louder idle and intermittent idle RPM hiccups. Difficult takeoffs. Loss of power and bogging when AC on. Increased fuel consumption. Vanos fault codes.
Double vanos cars with the M52TU engine (98/99-00) experience cold weather cold start idle jolts and possible stall.

All I have is the idle hunt coming to a stop. No hesitation, difficult takeoffs, or vanos fault codes. I may just do the seals because the car has just over 100k miles on it...
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Old 05-08-2012, 07:38 AM   #28
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Overall loss of torque and power, particularly in the lower RPM range, < 3k. Bogging then surging at 3k RPM. Uneven power distribution and RPM transition. Engine hesitations in the lower RPM range, < 3k.

All I have is the idle hunt coming to a stop. No hesitation, difficult takeoffs, or vanos fault codes. I may just do the seals because the car has just over 100k miles on it...
I am 100% sure that your problem is the seals? No, of course not, but you seem to be saying that you have some of these symptoms and it sounds like you are running out of vacuum hoses to replace. The kit itself is pretty darn cheap if you DIY, and I am certainly all up for not just throwing money and parts at the car, but since no one else had mentioned it, thought I would. Mine did not surge at 3k rpm it surged at idle as you describe. Mine was stalling out at idle and never threw a code.

Last edited by Brinkley; 05-08-2012 at 07:40 AM.
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Old 05-08-2012, 08:01 AM   #29
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Scanned thread again and didn't see that you'd cleaned the TB yet. They do stick. If stuck open when coming to a stop, you'd be getting a lot of air and fuel just for idling...so lean as your codes indicate. Just a working theory, but I think it works.

I removed my TB and sprayed it really clean...replaced the gasket behind it too. I know you don't want to go back down there, OP, but before you toss money on other parts away, this will only cost you some time and a can of cleaner. No guarantees, of course, but TBs do stick.
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Old 05-08-2012, 08:10 AM   #30
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I'm thinking motor mounts
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Old 05-08-2012, 09:10 AM   #31
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I am 100% sure that your problem is the seals? No, of course not, but you seem to be saying that you have some of these symptoms and it sounds like you are running out of vacuum hoses to replace. The kit itself is pretty darn cheap if you DIY, and I am certainly all up for not just throwing money and parts at the car, but since no one else had mentioned it, thought I would. Mine did not surge at 3k rpm it surged at idle as you describe. Mine was stalling out at idle and never threw a code.
Glad you posted though sounds like some of my symptoms
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Old 05-08-2012, 09:19 AM   #32
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No problem. Hope that will fix your issues. Being an 03, your car would be about the same age as mine was when the seals finally decided they would make it plain that they needed replacing.
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Old 05-08-2012, 09:31 AM   #33
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Did you take the ICV out and clean it. I had the exact problem and that fixed it.
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Old 05-08-2012, 09:38 AM   #34
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No problem. Hope that will fix your issues. Being an 03, your car would be about the same age as mine was when the seals finally decided they would make it plain that they needed replacing.
I've pretty much thrown the kitchen sink at it

-Cvv
-vgc
-spark plugs
-replaced a thousand feet of vac line
-upper/lower intake boots
-disa
-cleaned icv

(after further reading I read that I should have changed out the vanos when I had the vcg going on, hindsight huh......)

My beginning symptoms were rough idling to a stall and white smoke from pass side eng compartment, i read ALOT on this site and have done the diys (which are very good) I still have a ses light on and I'm noticing a slight sputter (nothing even close to crazy) in my idle.
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Old 05-08-2012, 12:06 PM   #35
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Did you take the ICV out and clean it. I had the exact problem and that fixed it.
This and what dmax suggested, cleaning the tb should be the first stop for idle issues.
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Old 05-08-2012, 12:12 PM   #36
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LOL to the motor mounts suggestion. Where do people come up with this stuff?

OP, I think you have to replace your ICV. The mere fact that you got a code for it is telling me there's a mechanical issue with it--not just dirt. The ICV is responsible for low-rpm operation. Try a used one if you have to.

Please report back.
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Old 05-08-2012, 12:52 PM   #37
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This and what dmax suggested, cleaning the tb should be the first stop for idle issues.
May as well just do upper/lower intake boots just as preventative measures since all will be off anyway, going to icv you may tear one anyway not a bad idea to have em on hand

Last edited by ThreeFinger; 05-08-2012 at 12:57 PM.
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Old 05-08-2012, 05:19 PM   #38
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After changing the ccv, all hoses to the ccv, 3 dipstick o-rings, and putting 50 plus miles on the car there is some improvement to the idle hunting. The car no longer occasionally stalls. Most of the time coming to a stop the rpm variation is in a 200 rpm range. Rarely it will more aggressively "hunt" in about a 400 rpm range. In all cases now the car does settle down on its own vs me having to give it some gas to stop the rpm gyrations... It is still throwing oxygen sensor adaptive limit codes for both banks. "e3" and "e4" from table 19 on the Peake tool.

So... I think I did some good regarding the idle hunt issue and on the plus side repaired an oil leak.. I still have an elusive vacuum leak.
For anyone chasing a vacuum leak FYI- there is a capped port on the oil separator itself... Might be worth checking that cap if you have a vacuum leak or oil leak before you go replacing the entire CCV system.
Hold up. your saying the vacuum port on the oil separator gets capped? i have the vacuum from the fuel rail running to that. is this not correct?
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Old 05-08-2012, 05:45 PM   #39
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Hold up. your saying the vacuum port on the oil separator gets capped? i have the vacuum from the fuel rail running to that. is this not correct?
Earlier models have a hose connected to the ccv. I do. Don't know where it comes from, but I put it back on my new one. If you had a hose there before, you need it there. Don't worry!
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Old 05-09-2012, 03:57 PM   #40
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As I have put more miles on the car the idle hunting coming to a stop has improved. I would say now it is at a point where I do not want to pursue the problem further. There are some other more pressing items with this car now- guibo, diff mounts, and one wheel hub replacement.

To answer some other questions posed- yes I did clean the throttle body and the icv.
Someone mentioned replacing the ICV if there is a code for it. I would say that many mechanics replace parts if a code is thrown that specifically has a part in the code description. I don't have that kind of money and would say that you may do better clearing codes and then rechecking for codes frequently. Find out which codes come on first. The first codes to appear often are the causes and then later codes just symptoms of the problem. IE in my case I was first getting "O2 adaptive limit" codes which after a short time were followed by "ICV mechanically sticking".
The Vanos seals I am going to do at some point- as Brinkly said they are not that expensive-- $60
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