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Old 08-02-2012, 10:11 AM   #2101
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If I see Zimmerman walking toward me at night, I'm going to shoot him.

I know he has a gun, and I know he's crazy enough to kill someone who's just walking through a neighborhood. I am afraid he will try to kill me.
After 2000 posts, you still don't understand the law, huh?

lol
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Old 08-02-2012, 11:56 AM   #2102
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I understand that it's OK to kill anyone that you feel is a threat to your life.

Right?
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Old 08-02-2012, 12:24 PM   #2103
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I understand that it's OK to kill anyone that you reasonably feel is a threat to your life.

Right?
fixed
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Old 08-02-2012, 12:35 PM   #2104
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Zimmerman has a gun, has a history of violence, and has shot & killed an unarmed kid that was walking through a neighborhood at night.

It's reasonable to assume that he is a threat to my life.
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Old 08-02-2012, 12:50 PM   #2105
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Zimmerman has a gun, has a history of violence, and has shot & killed an unarmed kid that was walking through a neighborhood at night.

It's reasonable to assume that he is a threat to my life.
Doesn't work like that. Of course you know that and just like to argue or you are just stupid.

Either way, how much time should be wasted in this thread?

Are you just hoping no one responds so you can have the last word?

PS - If the judge really cared about the law and justice, he would dismiss himself instead of feeding his ego to grandstand. Just gives Zimmerman a better argument for a mistrial appeal later.
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Old 08-02-2012, 12:52 PM   #2106
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fixed
Only playing devil's advocate here, but try this one on...


I find myself walking in an adjacent neighborhood at night. The temperature is starting to drop. But that's okay. I'm wearing a hoodie and I simply place the hood over my head. I continue to walk when suddenly I come across Zimmerman. Unbeknown to myself he lives in that neighborhood and certainly has the right to be there.

However, I quickly do the math in my head. I know from past events that he has been armed. I also know that he shot and killed a young man wearing a similar attire to myself and a similar time of day in a similar setting.

Except his time he reaches for his cellphone to call the authorities. But it's too late, I think he's reaching for a gun to shoot me. At this point I reasonably fear for my life. So naturally, kill or be killed.

Boom. He's dead. What now?
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Old 08-02-2012, 01:11 PM   #2107
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Only playing devil's advocate here, but try this one on...


I find myself walking in an adjacent neighborhood at night. The temperature is starting to drop. But that's okay. I'm wearing a hoodie and I simply place the hood over my head. I continue to walk when suddenly I come across Zimmerman. Unbeknown to myself he lives in that neighborhood and certainly has the right to be there.

However, I quickly do the math in my head. I know from past events that he has been armed. I also know that he shot and killed a young man wearing a similar attire to myself and a similar time of day in a similar setting.

Except his time he reaches for his cellphone to call the authorities. But it's too late, I think he's reaching for a gun to shoot me. At this point I reasonably fear for my life. So naturally, kill or be killed.

Boom. He's dead. What now?
You go to jail.
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Old 08-02-2012, 01:15 PM   #2108
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You go to jail.
Textbook irony.
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Old 08-02-2012, 01:18 PM   #2109
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You go to jail.
Keep in mind through this story, that I am a very respectful looking 16 year old Caucasian male. I was wearing puma shoes, cleanly cut jeans, a subaru t-shirt, and a fleece jacket. My hair is short and cleanly kept, and I have no piercings. Nothing makes me stand out as a rebel or any sort of a threat. I also live in a good area of the suburbs.

Where as he is a minority.

Given that I can afford a good lawyer, I might get community service at worst.



But in all seriousness, how the hell do you define reasonable fear for life? Rather subjective if you ask me. I have grounds to fear this individual.
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Old 08-02-2012, 01:29 PM   #2110
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Originally Posted by casino is no lie View Post
Keep in mind through this story, that I am a very respectful looking 16 year old Caucasian male. I was wearing puma shoes, cleanly cut jeans, a subaru t-shirt, and a fleece jacket. My hair is short and cleanly kept, and I have no piercings. Nothing makes me stand out as a rebel or any sort of a threat. I also live in a good area of the suburbs.

Where as he is a minority.

Given that I can afford a good lawyer, I might get community service at worst.



But in all seriousness, how the hell do you define reasonable fear for life? Rather subjective if you ask me. I have grounds to fear this individual.
Well, taking your story literally, if you KNEW it was Zimmerman, you would not REASONABLY fear for your life, and as glockman said, you go to jail. Keep in mind, the Lair definition and the actual legal definition are a little bit different.
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Old 08-02-2012, 01:43 PM   #2111
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Keep in mind through this story, that I am a very respectful looking 16 year old Caucasian male. I was wearing puma shoes, cleanly cut jeans, a subaru t-shirt, and a fleece jacket. My hair is short and cleanly kept, and I have no piercings. Nothing makes me stand out as a rebel or any sort of a threat. I also live in a good area of the suburbs.

Where as he is a minority.

Given that I can afford a good lawyer, I might get community service at worst.



But in all seriousness, how the hell do you define reasonable fear for life? Rather subjective if you ask me. I have grounds to fear this individual.
It is not just fear of your life, its also a reasonable ability to commit it.

It is not any different that shooting someone and putting a knife in their hand.

In Florida, if you fear for serious bodily injury and the personal you fear has a reasonable ability to provide that injury, then you are legal.

If you have witnesses that state there were no threats, weapons, etc, you will lose. You can't just push some guy in a wheelchair down the stairs because he said he is going to kick your ass.

But... two 300lb dudes telling some woman with a flat tire on the side of the road that she is never going to walk straight again is enough for the woman to shoot them both dead.

Quite frankly, it is a wonder there are not more self defense cases here.
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Old 08-02-2012, 01:46 PM   #2112
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It is not just fear of your life, its also a reasonable ability to commit it.

It is not any different that shooting someone and putting a knife in their hand.

In Florida, if you fear for serious bodily injury and the personal you fear has a reasonable ability to provide that injury, then you are legal.

If you have witnesses that state there were no threats, weapons, etc, you will lose. You can't just push some guy in a wheelchair down the stairs because he said he is going to kick your ass.

But... two 300lb dudes telling some woman with a flat tire on the side of the road that she is never going to walk straight again is enough for the woman to shoot them both dead.

Quite frankly, it is a wonder there are not more self defense cases here.
Lair is just trolling for an argument. You can't walk into a sushi restaurant, kill the chef, and claim "he had a knife and I felt threatened." Inversely, someone doesn't need a weapon to be "threatening." This concept eludes Lair.
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Old 08-02-2012, 01:50 PM   #2113
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Well, taking your story literally, if you KNEW it was Zimmerman, you would not REASONABLY fear for your life, and as glockman said, you go to jail. Keep in mind, the Lair definition and the actual legal definition are a little bit different.
so you're OK with someone in your family being shot dead while the survivors battle the definition out in court?
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Old 08-02-2012, 02:11 PM   #2114
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so you're OK with someone in your family being shot dead while the survivors battle the definition out in court?
Again, we are getting way off track here. If someone in my family was beating a person to death, and that person was armed, I would not be surprised at the outcome. However, my family members wouldn't beat an innocent person to near death for no apparent reason.
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Old 08-02-2012, 05:49 PM   #2115
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again, we are getting way off track here. If someone in my family was beating a person to death, and that person was armed, i would not be surprised at the outcome. However, my family members wouldn't beat an innocent person to near death for no apparent reason.
bingo!
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Old 08-02-2012, 06:08 PM   #2116
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So now Zimmerman was "beat to near death"?



Jesus.
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Old 08-02-2012, 10:23 PM   #2117
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But in all seriousness, how the hell do you define reasonable fear for life? Rather subjective if you ask me. I have grounds to fear this individual.
Can you convince 12 of your peers that your actions were reasonable? Thats how you define it. It IS arbitrary and subjective on the surface, but thats why "your peers from your community", theoretically people with similiar life experience, values and judgement to yours, are the ones that judge you.

Are you suggesting that any person that ever kills someone in self defense be considered a mortal threat by everyone that ever meets them?

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so you're OK with someone in your family being shot dead while the survivors battle the definition out in court?
Can you figure out a way to stop every shooting of every person before it happens so we don't ever have to argue about whether it was justified after the fact?

Cuz unless you can do that, this is how its gonna go down.

If you've got a way, count me in.
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Old 08-03-2012, 08:32 AM   #2118
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Only playing devil's advocate here, but try this one on...


I find myself walking in an adjacent neighborhood at night. The temperature is starting to drop. But that's okay. I'm wearing a hoodie and I simply place the hood over my head. I continue to walk when suddenly I come across Zimmerman. Unbeknown to myself he lives in that neighborhood and certainly has the right to be there.

However, I quickly do the math in my head. I know from past events that he has been armed. I also know that he shot and killed a young man wearing a similar attire to myself and a similar time of day in a similar setting.

Except his time he reaches for his cellphone to call the authorities. But it's too late, I think he's reaching for a gun to shoot me. At this point I reasonably fear for my life. So naturally, kill or be killed.

Boom. He's dead. What now?
Given his particular set of facts, you are going to jail. The man would have had to at least threaten you and then go for his cellphone to even make it an argument. The mere presence of someone you believed killed someone previously does not make a self-defense scenario. If that was true OJ would be dead already just from walking around.
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Old 08-03-2012, 08:36 AM   #2119
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There's no doubtthat Zimmerman killed someone - a 17 year old someone who was unarmed.
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Old 08-03-2012, 10:06 AM   #2120
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So now Zimmerman was "beat to near death"?



Jesus.
Once again, you don't have to be near death.

In fear of SERIOUS BODILY INJURY is Florida law.

If you don't feel that getting your head smack against concrete repeatedly after getting your nose broken is serious bodily injury, then you are much tougher than I am.

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