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Political Talk
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Old 12-08-2012, 07:46 PM   #2441
MDydinanM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fergo_the_mule View Post
Government officials never pay for anything. They do what they want, when they want.
never huh?

Rod Blagojevich - jail

Marion Barry - was jailed

Secret Service Scandal- disciplined, resigned, etc.

etc, etc, etc

list of politicians:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...#2010.E2.80.93

Last edited by MDydinanM; 12-08-2012 at 07:50 PM.
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Old 12-08-2012, 07:49 PM   #2442
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Originally Posted by NFRs2000nyc View Post
Anthony being guilty is nothing but my personal opinion based on my interpretation of available facts. I personally think her daughter died in her care and she covered it up. I can't say she killed her though. However, I also concede that the system worked. She was put on trial, there was insufficient evidence other than opinion and "but look" circumstances and the prosecution was not able to convince the jury beyond a reasonable doubt that she was guilty of a crime.

With Zimmerman, I am looking at the available evidence and circumstances. I see nothing that points to his wrongdoing so my interpretation of the available facts leads me to believe that it was nothing but self defense, and there is nothing that leads me to believe otherwise.
Finally!

You state that it's your opinion

Last edited by MDydinanM; 12-08-2012 at 07:51 PM.
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Old 12-08-2012, 07:52 PM   #2443
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Originally Posted by mdyaman View Post
never huh?

Rod Blagojevich - jail

Marion Barry - was jailed

Secret Service Scandal- disciplined, resigned, etc.

etc, etc, etc
How about obama? He is raping the US into the ground and no one is doing a thing about it? Putting people out of work because of obamacare, taking his 4 million dollar Christmas trip to Hawaii on the taxpayers dime? Or what about the outrageous national deficit? How will he pay for that?
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Old 12-08-2012, 07:55 PM   #2444
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Originally Posted by mdyaman View Post
Finally!

You state that it's your opinion
Obviously it's my opinion. I am not the judge. I can neither convict him nor set him free. This entire thread is opinions. However, based on the facts at hand it would be irrational for someone to think otherwise....as evidenced by lair. The only thing he keeps repeating is "Martin is dead and Zimmerman killed him."
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Old 12-08-2012, 08:07 PM   #2445
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How about obama? He is raping the US into the ground and no one is doing a thing about it? Putting people out of work because of obamacare, taking his 4 million dollar Christmas trip to Hawaii on the taxpayers dime? Or what about the outrageous national deficit? How will he pay for that?
You said Govt Officials never pay for anything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fergo_the_mule
Government officials never pay for anything. They do what they want, when they want
I debunked your comment. Now you're changing the subject.

But i'll entertain your post.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Fergo_the_mule View Post
He is raping the US into the ground and no one is doing a thing about it?
Elaborate


Quote:
Originally Posted by Fergo_the_mule View Post
Putting people out of work because of obamacare,
Explain every detail and criteria of Obamacare - all XXXXXX pages of it. I certainly can't and if you can, you're a better man than me. Secondly, the majority of Obamacare kicks in 2014. Businesses saying "Obamacare" is affecting them, well I call BS. We just had a thread about this where we discussed business/company mismanagement =/= Obamacares fault. http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthr...721&highlight=


Quote:
Originally Posted by Fergo_the_mule View Post
taking his 4 million dollar Christmas trip to Hawaii on the taxpayers dime?
Ok, lets talk about George W. Bush spending at least $20 million taxpayer dollars just on flights to his ranch in Crawford. Or that Bush has taken more time off than Obama.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fergo_the_mule View Post
Or what about the outrageous national deficit? How will he pay for that?
Ok, what about fighting two unaffordable wars started after 9/11? Afghanistan I can understand and fully support. Iraq, not so much - at least not anymore. And the Republicans wanting to sustain Defense spending?

I respect your opinion on not being a supporter of Obama, but I encourage you to look at two sides of a coin.

Last edited by MDydinanM; 12-08-2012 at 08:15 PM.
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Old 12-08-2012, 08:18 PM   #2446
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You said Govt Officials never pay for anything. I debunked your comment. Now you're changing the subject.

Thanks for the knowledge
But i'll entertain your post.




Elaborate




Explain every detail and criteria of Obamacare - all XXXXXX pages of it. I certainly can't and if you can, you're a better man than me. Secondly, the majority of Obamacare kicks in 2014. Businesses saying "Obamacare" is affecting them, well I call BS. We just had a thread about this where we discussed business/company mismanagement =/= Obamacares fault.
On a personal level, Lockheed Martin is a major employer in my area, and last month they laid off 1,200 employees, explicitly due to obamacare.



Ok, lets talk about George W. Bush spending at least $20 million taxpayer dollars just on flights to his ranch in Crawford. Or that Bush has taken more time off than Obama. No argument there, Bush was awful, just pointing out current situations



Ok, what about fighting two unaffordable wars started after 9/11? Afghanistan I can understand and fully support. Iraq, not so much - at least not anymore. And the Republicans wanting to sustain Defense spending?

I respect your opinion on not being a supporter of Obama, but I encourage you to look at two sides of a coin.

I do, both major parties here in the US suck...Bush was an awful president, Obama is even worse, I do believe the last good president of the US was Regan.
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Old 12-08-2012, 08:30 PM   #2447
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Originally Posted by Fergo_the_mule View Post
On a personal level, Lockheed Martin is a major employer in my area, and last month they laid off 1,200 employees, explicitly due to obamacare.
Curious - is that what Lockheed Martin said? So it had nothing to do with a decreasing defense budget and that the wars are winding down; that there will soon be no longer a need for sustaining current levels of the military industrial complex? When wars end, defense contracting shrinks. If you look at every major US conflict, like WWII, Vietnam, Korea, etc, our military has shrunk, and so has the industry.

Here is an article on LM cutting 1200 jobs - it states from fiscal decline. Not Obamacare.

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/BUSINESS...uts/index.html

If LM is blaming Obamacare, it seems to be a thinly disguised veil to blame the current Administration when they know cuts are coming, regardless. They would happily accept getting rid of Obamacare and having the US Govt divert funding for more defense related funding. Like I said, major implementation of Obamacare starts in 2014. My opinion.

A lot of major Defense Contractors will experience cuts, not because of Obamacare. It's because they are becoming leaner to remain relevant and competitive. The US Govt is becoming more fiscally conscious when competing new contracts, and a major selection criteria will be cost benefit.

Here's another related article that describes what I was talking about

http://www.washingtonpost.com/busine...f7b_story.html

This is probably a stretch, but LM is also responsible for building the new Joint Strike Fighter. That said, the program is way over budget and the DOD is asking for LM to absorb cost over runs. In order for that to happen, LM will have to make cuts and sacrifices. I'm speculating on this one.

Last edited by MDydinanM; 12-08-2012 at 09:39 PM.
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Old 12-08-2012, 08:44 PM   #2448
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A lot of the bigger defense contractors are already looking at what to do post-war, they're all expecting significant emotional events in the coming years.

Several are starting to put out jobs for people with health care industry experience. Wonder why that could be...
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Old 12-08-2012, 08:49 PM   #2449
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Originally Posted by NOVAbimmer View Post
A lot of the bigger defense contractors are already looking at what to do post-war, they're all expecting significant emotional events in the coming years.

Several are starting to put out jobs for people with health care industry experience. Wonder why that could be...
thank you.

Defense contractors are merging with other industries to explore new business opportunities outside of Defense - health care being one of them.

-------------

anyways, back on topic. So... GZ and TM....

Last edited by MDydinanM; 12-08-2012 at 08:52 PM.
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Old 12-08-2012, 08:52 PM   #2450
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Originally Posted by mdyaman View Post
Curious - is that what Lockheed Martin said? So it had nothing to do with a decreasing defense budget and that the wars are winding down; that there will soon be no longer a need for sustaining current levels of the military industrial complex? When wars end, defense contracting shrinks. If you look at every major US conflict, like WWII, Vietnam, Korea, etc, our military has shrunk, and so has the industry.

Here is an article on LM cutting 1200 jobs - it states from fiscal decline. Not Obamacare.

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/BUSINESS...uts/index.html

If LM is blaming Obamacare, it seems to be a thinly disguised veil to blame the current Administration when they know cuts are coming, regardless. They would happily accept getting rid of Obamacare and having the US Govt divert funding for more defense related funding. Like I said, major implementation of Obamacare starts in 2014. My opinion.

A lot of major Defense Contractors will experience cuts, not because of Obamacare. It's because they are becoming leaner to remain relevant and competitive. The US Govt is becoming more fiscally conscious when competing for new contracts, and a major selection criteria will be cost benefit.

Here's another related article that describes what I was talking about

http://www.washingtonpost.com/busine...f7b_story.html

This is probably a stretch, but LM is also responsible for building the new Joint Strike Fighter. That said, the program is way over budget and the DOD is asking for LM to absorb cost over runs. In order for that to happen, LM will have to make cuts and sacrifices. I'm speculating on this one.
Lockheed is not strictly military, your google search should have told you that. Also reading the articles might help, since when is space systems military?
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Old 12-08-2012, 08:53 PM   #2451
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Originally Posted by Fergo_the_mule View Post
Lockheed is not strictly military, your google search should have told you that.
obviously... but Defense and Govt services is the majority of what they do. US Govt/DOD is one of their biggest clients.

show me where LM is blaming Obamacare

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Old 12-08-2012, 09:01 PM   #2452
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Originally Posted by Fergo_the_mule View Post
Also reading the articles might help, since when is space systems military?


from the article:

Quote:
Lockheed Martin Space Systems is a division of the Lockheed Martin Corp. The corporation manufactures and operates a wide range of advanced-technology systems including communications satellites, missile defense systems and spacecraft.
Yes there are commercial space applications, but if you don't think the military doesn't have a hand in space systems and satellites, etc - you are mistaken. Example: GPS.

from LM website for Space Systems:

http://www.lockheedmartin.com/us/wha...atellites.html
Quote:
Partnering with national security and military, civil government and commercial customers, we develop space-based solutions to help protect lives, preserve freedom, and advance the cause of civilization. With a full range of remote sensing, navigation, meteorological and communications missions, Lockheed Martin-built satellites serve to connect, protect, and explore the world in which we live.

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Old 12-08-2012, 09:14 PM   #2453
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Originally Posted by mdyaman View Post
obviously... but Defense and Govt services is the majority of what they do. US Govt/DOD is one of their biggest clients.

show me where LM is blaming Obamacare
LM is not blaming obamacare, employees are blaming Obama and his policies, I happen to know a couple.
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Old 12-08-2012, 09:17 PM   #2454
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Originally Posted by Fergo_the_mule View Post
LM is not blaming obamacare, employees are blaming Obama and his policies, I happen to know a couple.
Thank you for clarifying and making the distinction. Because earlier you said:

Quote:
On a personal level, Lockheed Martin is a major employer in my area, and last month they laid off 1,200 employees, explicitly due to obamacare.
Based off that you can infer from your comment that LM was blaming Obamacare.

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Old 12-08-2012, 09:28 PM   #2455
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Thank you for clarifying and making the distinction. Because earlier you said:



Based off that you can infer from your comment that LM was blaming Obamacare.
How dare we mistake his meaning "a couple of people" for the broad generalization he made prior.
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Old 12-08-2012, 09:41 PM   #2456
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Show me where I said that you said Z is guilty.

You were criticizing those that advocate for his innocence. I simply pointed out that he is innocent, since he has yet to be proven guilty.
If I didn't say that he's guilty, what is your point in lecturing me on how he's innocent until proven guilty and that I'm stepping over my words?
Who's contradicting self here?

First of all, the few vocals here were not advocating for his innocence.
They are strongly opposed to him getting indicted/arrested.

Second, as the trial hasn't happened yet, arrested or not he's still innocent.
Other that Lair's comments (obviously pulling y'all's legs and you falling for it) nobody has claimed that he's guilty. Not even the media. Show me where.

I don't see any issue here, other than you trying to make a tempest out of a glass of water.
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Old 12-08-2012, 09:43 PM   #2457
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Prior generalization was mispoken, should have clarified
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Old 12-08-2012, 09:46 PM   #2458
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Holy threadjack!!!
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Old 12-08-2012, 09:52 PM   #2459
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Holy threadjack!!!
see what happens when you and Lair step away for a while? Thread goes to hell.






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Old 12-08-2012, 09:54 PM   #2460
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My apologies on the threadjack
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