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Old 07-09-2013, 10:39 PM   #4181
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Originally Posted by Act of God View Post
lol that's all you got frumpy?
He said as you quoted "we dont need you to do that" "not do not do that" its not his job to do it so he doesnt "need" to but i do believe it is a right he has

Damn me quoting the wrong person...

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Old 07-09-2013, 10:43 PM   #4182
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Dead "kid" who was gunned down by a self-appointed vigilante.

You and the other white bigots keep making it about race.
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Old 07-09-2013, 10:50 PM   #4183
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All GZ had to do was stay In the car. Remember the dispatcher "we don't need you to do that"

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lol that's all you got frumpy?
That's all I need jacka$$
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Old 07-09-2013, 10:57 PM   #4184
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In the trial coverage , its kind of fun to listen to the reputedly best forensics expert in the US, on gunshots , support Zimmerman.

I am really curious to see how the bottle spins...

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Old 07-09-2013, 11:02 PM   #4185
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Not gonna happen. What MIGHT happen is a bunch of blacks start a riot, start putting white people in fear, and get shot. Oh and in other news troll...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...n_3561407.html

Even gave you a juicy liberal source.
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Old 07-09-2013, 11:03 PM   #4186
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That's all I need jacka$$
Let me know when you get your law degree, until then you're (again) in over your head...which actually isn't that hard lol frumppppp
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Old 07-09-2013, 11:16 PM   #4187
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I think too many people are confusing whats morally right vs legally right. Zimmerman following Treyvon was dumb, but legal.
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Old 07-10-2013, 02:30 AM   #4188
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Was GZ's belief he was in danger of death or great bodily harm reasonable? That, in essence, is the entire case. Yes? Should go free. No? Conviction or imperfect self defense.
No. In essence, the entire case is who attacked who? If GZ attacked TM, GZ's ability to claim self defense is at the very least seriously weakened, if not completely tossed out the window. And that's true even if TM was kicking his ass.

IF TM attacked GZ, there's an additional complication in the question of whether GZ put TM in fear of his life. In which case, TM was defending himself, and GZ's ability to claim self defense is at the very least weakend, if not completely tossed out the window.

The difficulty is that (AFAIK) there are no 3rd party eye witnesses to the start of the fight. GZ says TM attacked him and the prosecution doesn't have anything that can disprove that claim (in order to get the jury to start to question the rest of GZ's story) or prove an alternative claim.

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All GZ had to do was stay In the car. Remember the dispatcher "we don't need you to do that"
All TM had to do was stay home.

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I think too many people are confusing whats morally right vs legally right. Zimmerman following Treyvon was dumb, but legal.
First of all, it's still not clear if GZ was actually following TM, or just trying to get to a place where he could see which direction TM was going because he thought the dispatcher wanted that info.

Second of all, it's simplistic to call it a dumb decision. I'm sure around the country a hundred neighborhood watch people "followed" people this month alone without getting into a fight or getting shot/shooting someone. Sure, with hindsight, GZ probably wishes he'd done something different. But that's hindsight, and just because he now knows the outcome, it's not fair to label it a dumb decision based on what he knew at the time.
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Old 07-10-2013, 02:48 AM   #4189
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I've had sex that left me looking worse.

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Old 07-10-2013, 06:23 AM   #4190
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I've had sex that left me looking worse.
You've probably had sex with worse looking also.
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Old 07-10-2013, 06:52 AM   #4191
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First of all, it's still not clear if GZ was actually following TM, or just trying to get to a place where he could see which direction TM was going because he thought the dispatcher wanted that info.

Second of all, it's simplistic to call it a dumb decision. I'm sure around the country a hundred neighborhood watch people "followed" people this month alone without getting into a fight or getting shot/shooting someone. Sure, with hindsight, GZ probably wishes he'd done something different. But that's hindsight, and just because he now knows the outcome, it's not fair to label it a dumb decision based on what he knew at the time.
well said
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Old 07-10-2013, 08:22 AM   #4192
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No. In essence, the entire case is who attacked who? If GZ attacked TM, GZ's ability to claim self defense is at the very least seriously weakened, if not completely tossed out the window. And that's true even if TM was kicking his ass.

IF TM attacked GZ, there's an additional complication in the question of whether GZ put TM in fear of his life. In which case, TM was defending himself, and GZ's ability to claim self defense is at the very least weakend, if not completely tossed out the window.

The difficulty is that (AFAIK) there are no 3rd party eye witnesses to the start of the fight. GZ says TM attacked him and the prosecution doesn't have anything that can disprove that claim (in order to get the jury to start to question the rest of GZ's story) or prove an alternative claim.
True, but there are two exceptions to initial agressor doctrine. Typically, an initial agressor loses his claim to self defense except when:

1). He employs non-lethal force, to which the person attacks responds with deadly force. The initial agressor is then entitled to use any force necessary to defend themselves because the person attacked has escalated.

For instance. If GZ had shoved TM and started the altercation, he would be the initial agressor. But TM's subsequent response of banging his head repeatedly into concrete could be interpreted as an escalation to deadly force. In such a case, GZ could respond in-kind and claim self defense.

2). He withdraws from the fight. Normally requires a declaration and physical removal of himself from the confrontation. If the initial agressor does that and the original attacked person re-engages, the rules of self defense reset.

If GZ had started the fight, then attempted to remove himself from it and declared he no longer wanted to fight, he could employ whatever force necessary if TM continued his attack, including deadly force if he was in reasonable fear of imminent death or great bodily harm.


It's not as black and white as you make it out to be. You can start the fight and finish it and still claim self defense. It's a harder argument and a much high standard, but possible.

That's not at issue here though. No evidence whatsoever has been brought before the court that indicated GZ was the initial agressor. The evidence shows that TM was and without evidence to say otherwise, the whole point is mute. Again, it goes back to his state of mind in the moment where he drew the gun and fired the shot.
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Old 07-10-2013, 08:27 AM   #4193
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The Zimmerman LIE

Well, the judge blocked both the animation and the texts. Gives the defense a decent amount of ammo on appeal. The text blocking IMHO severely hurts Zimmermans right to a fair trial.


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Old 07-10-2013, 08:46 AM   #4194
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Well that sucks.

Now they can't use TM's phone to prove their assertion that TM attacked first?

What a shame!
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Old 07-10-2013, 08:52 AM   #4195
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Just saw the animation. Where are the bushes that TM supposedly jump out of....or was it Gods will for the animator to leave out that detail?
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Old 07-10-2013, 08:55 AM   #4196
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The Zimmerman LIE

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Just saw the animation. Where are the bushes that TM supposedly jump out of....or was it Gods will for the animator to leave out that detail?
Once again talking directly out of your ass and looking like a troll. If you watched the hearing you would know the answer to your question. The defense can still show the animation during their closing. The animation depicts only what is verifiable through testimony and the forensic evidence.


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Old 07-10-2013, 09:00 AM   #4197
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Just saw the animation. Where are the bushes that TM supposedly jump out of....or was it Gods will for the animator to leave out that detail?
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Old 07-10-2013, 09:05 AM   #4198
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Well that sucks.

Now they can't use TM's phone to prove their assertion that TM attacked first?

What a shame!
Wouldn't go to that. They can't go to that because the rules of evidence prevent that sort of thing in most cases.

It would be character evidence in this case, which wouldn't be allowed in unless the prosecution brought up TM's character. I haven't followed the trial religiously so I'm not sure how much they have. iMHO, if they had just referred to him as "a great kid" who didn't get into trouble, etc., that would be enough for me to argue the texts coming in. The prosecution would have opened the door.

The judge coud have got this wrong if so, AND would be grounds to appeal.
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Old 07-10-2013, 09:30 AM   #4199
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Thanks for posting

Hopefully this will shut a few people up.

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Didn't realize it was 200+ pages until you mentioned it. Nice post. Interested to see how this shifts the argument.
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Old 07-10-2013, 09:56 AM   #4200
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I feel like Lair cannot be serious.

1. He posts the most close minded sh1t
2. He posts 1 or 2 sentences at a time. If he were serious he'd have a lot more to say. He just wants to rile people up.
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