E46 BMW Social Directory E46 FAQ 3-Series Discussion Forums BMW Photo Gallery BMW 3-Series Technical Information E46 Fanatics - The Ultimate BMW Resource BMW Vendors General E46 Forum The Tire Rack's Tire Wheel Forum Forced Induction Forum The Off-Topic The E46 BMW Showroom For Sale, For Trade or Wanting to Buy

Welcome to the E46Fanatics forums. E46Fanatics is the premiere website for BMW 3 series owners around the world with interactive forums, a geographical enthusiast directory, photo galleries, and technical information for BMW enthusiasts.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.

Go Back   E46Fanatics > Everything Else > The Off-Topic > Political Talk

Political Talk
You may discuss anything regarding politics in this forum ONLY. If you cannot respect others opinions, your access to this forum will be removed.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 06-08-2012, 03:22 PM   #1721
Xcelratr
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: So Cal - 310
Posts: 953
My Ride: 04 330Ci ZHP
Quote:
Originally Posted by rohde88 View Post
It may not reach the level of typical aff. defenses, but I believe the Defendant still has to offer "reasonable evidence" or "evidence such that a jury could find XXX".

People here don't understand how the burden can shift back and forth constantly. Also there are so many degrees of "burdens" its pointless to try and say that the state always has the burden beyond a reasonable doubt.
This.

I recognize that in concept the burden of proof is on the state.

My point is I just dont think Z's defense can just sit back and say "it was self defense, nyah nyah nyah" and expect the judge or a jury to buy that. The state is out for his head and while they may not have much, they're going to throw everything they can at him.

At the very least, the defense is going to have to refute the state's various claims. More likely, they're going to have to provide some positive proof of their own.
__________________
----------------------------------------------
What was the best thing before sliced bread?
----------------------------------------------
Xcelratr is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2012, 03:26 PM   #1722
casino is no lie
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: CDT
Posts: 76
My Ride: M54B30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Master Po View Post
Now, had you stayed at a Holiday In last night, you could have made that statement with a decisive level of authority.
I prefer the Peninsula. Keeps me away from the 99%.
__________________
casino is no lie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2012, 03:45 PM   #1723
NFRs2000nyc
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: NYC/NJ
Posts: 897
My Ride: 2003 FormulaRedS2000
As if you needed another reason of why this case will NEVER go to trial...the final nail in the coffin.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/06/07...est=latestnews

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/Zim...6/05/id/441305



The entire case is based on a misrepresentation.

Boom goes the dynamite.
__________________

Last edited by NFRs2000nyc; 06-08-2012 at 03:49 PM.
NFRs2000nyc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2012, 03:45 PM   #1724
NFRs2000nyc
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: NYC/NJ
Posts: 897
My Ride: 2003 FormulaRedS2000
Quote:
Originally Posted by casino is no lie View Post
I prefer the Peninsula. Keeps me away from the 99%.
Try the Four Seasons...slightly better linens.
__________________
NFRs2000nyc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2012, 03:46 PM   #1725
NFRs2000nyc
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: NYC/NJ
Posts: 897
My Ride: 2003 FormulaRedS2000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xcelratr View Post
This.

I recognize that in concept the burden of proof is on the state.

My point is I just dont think Z's defense can just sit back and say "it was self defense, nyah nyah nyah" and expect the judge or a jury to buy that. The state is out for his head and while they may not have much, they're going to throw everything they can at him.

At the very least, the defense is going to have to refute the state's various claims. More likely, they're going to have to provide some positive proof of their own.
What you are arguing is when it is not clear. The circumstantial physical evidence supports Zimmerman's self defense claim, so they can indeed "relax."
__________________
NFRs2000nyc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2012, 04:01 PM   #1726
casino is no lie
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: CDT
Posts: 76
My Ride: M54B30
Quote:
Originally Posted by NFRs2000nyc View Post
Try the Four Seasons...slightly better linens.
Yet falls short in everything else compared to the Peninsula. And here in Chicago, the Four Seasons doesn't even make my top three.
__________________
casino is no lie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2012, 04:10 PM   #1727
Xcelratr
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: So Cal - 310
Posts: 953
My Ride: 04 330Ci ZHP
Quote:
Originally Posted by NFRs2000nyc View Post
What you are arguing is when it is not clear. The circumstantial physical evidence supports Zimmerman's self defense claim, so they can indeed "relax."
If it was my ass they were trying to get to trial and lock away for a long time, I'd be pulling out all stops to kill their case.

Indeed, if I felt I was wrongly charged for political reasons or to satiate the mobs, my intention would be to humiliate them in the judge's hearing and/or trial by thoroughly clobbering everything they tried to throw at me.
__________________
----------------------------------------------
What was the best thing before sliced bread?
----------------------------------------------
Xcelratr is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2012, 05:52 PM   #1728
Master Po
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 358
My Ride: E46 no more
Quote:
Originally Posted by NFRs2000nyc View Post
Try the Four Seasons...slightly better linens.
The linens may be better, but you get out of there with a tainted, perhaps elitist view of reality... the Holiday Inns is more down to the ground, if you catch my drift.
__________________
Master Po is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2012, 06:38 PM   #1729
Swish
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: NorCal
Posts: 285
My Ride: 2004 M3 Vert
Quote:
Originally Posted by NFRs2000nyc View Post
Try the Four Seasons...slightly better linens.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NFRs2000nyc View Post
What you are arguing is when it is not clear. The circumstantial physical evidence supports Zimmerman's self defense claim, so they can indeed "relax."
I notice a pattern that you don't ever multi-quote... You do know you can do this on here, right? Might save yourself some time
__________________

"If you want to move past racism, you have to STOP LABELING EVERYTHING BY RACE / 2000_328CI"
Swish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2012, 07:09 PM   #1730
00stephen
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Ohio
Posts: 15
My Ride: '02 TJ, '87 Milano
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xcelratr View Post
While true in principle, in practice, the state will quite easily prove Z killed M. That's not in dispute. If it ended there, the state would win and Z would be convicted.

In this case, though, it doesn't end there. Z is going to say "yes, I killed him, but it was self defense". Technically it's still up to the state to prove it wasn't. But Z cannot reasonably expect to convince a judge or jury that things happened the way he claims, and that any reasonable person would have felt threatened enough to use deadly force, without telling his story in a credible fashion and backing it up, or at least refuting the state's claims with evidence (ie proving it).
Yes, semantically, that's true. Z undoubtedly killed (TM). And you're correct, Z is ultimately invoking self-defense/SYG. And rohde88 is correct, the burden of proof can then shift.

I'm willing to raise my hand and say I don't know for sure whether SYG legislation puts the burden on the state or the shooter. It's my understanding, which could be wrong, that after the prima facia argument is presented by the shooter, that the SYG legislation puts the burden upon the state.

Does anybody here know, for sure, where SYG laws put the burden?
__________________
00stephen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2012, 07:18 PM   #1731
NFRs2000nyc
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: NYC/NJ
Posts: 897
My Ride: 2003 FormulaRedS2000
Quote:
Originally Posted by casino is no lie View Post
Yet falls short in everything else compared to the Peninsula. And here in Chicago, the Four Seasons doesn't even make my top three.
It was a joke brother. I've never actually stayed at either hotel.
__________________
NFRs2000nyc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2012, 07:20 PM   #1732
NFRs2000nyc
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: NYC/NJ
Posts: 897
My Ride: 2003 FormulaRedS2000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xcelratr View Post
If it was my ass they were trying to get to trial and lock away for a long time, I'd be pulling out all stops to kill their case.

Indeed, if I felt I was wrongly charged for political reasons or to satiate the mobs, my intention would be to humiliate them in the judge's hearing and/or trial by thoroughly clobbering everything they tried to throw at me.
I agree, and they might be planning it. This is something that won't be public until after the fact. I would also guess that Dershowitz might help Zimmerman out to make the special prosecutor look like a tard even more.
__________________
NFRs2000nyc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2012, 07:26 PM   #1733
00stephen
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Ohio
Posts: 15
My Ride: '02 TJ, '87 Milano
Quote:
Originally Posted by casino is no lie View Post
I've been inside my fair share of law schools. Hell... I even live across the street (literally) from one of the best law schools in the United States. So I can say with some level of authority that Zimmerman may or may not be found guilty on some or all counts.
Ah... so your proximity to such esteemed brick and mortar has made you legally adept and savvy? I've been in my fair share of passenger jets. It doesn't mean I can land one, or even hazard a guess beyond conjecture the conditions that need to be met to ensure a successful landing. Let me guess: you slept at a Holiday Inn Express for your postdoctorate!
__________________
00stephen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2012, 07:26 PM   #1734
NFRs2000nyc
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: NYC/NJ
Posts: 897
My Ride: 2003 FormulaRedS2000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Master Po View Post
The linens may be better, but you get out of there with a tainted, perhaps elitist view of reality... the Holiday Inns is more down to the ground, if you catch my drift.
Correct me if I am wrong, but I've heard that with the exception of the United States, Holiday Inns are actually 5 star/5 diamond hotels everywhere else in the world. True?

For example...

http://www.holidayinngoa.com/

http://holidayinnjaipur.com/

http://www.hisofiahotel.com/
__________________
NFRs2000nyc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2012, 08:43 PM   #1735
5ynd1cat3
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Cincinnati
Posts: 472
My Ride: swagger wagon
Quote:
Originally Posted by NFRs2000nyc View Post
Correct me if I am wrong, but I've heard that with the exception of the United States, Holiday Inns are actually 5 star/5 diamond hotels everywhere else in the world. True?

For example...

http://www.holidayinngoa.com/

http://holidayinnjaipur.com/

http://www.hisofiahotel.com/
C'mon man, everyone knows that the foundations for this country's greatness was built by the motorlodge. 'Murica!

Sent from my HTC Glacier using Bimmer App
__________________
5ynd1cat3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2012, 09:31 PM   #1736
Lair
Modded ///Member
 
Lair's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Downtown
Posts: 320
My Ride: 330ciC
Quote:
Originally Posted by 00stephen View Post
Does anybody here know, for sure, where SYG laws put the burden?
If the burden is on the defense, Z is f*cked.
__________________

Congratulations.
Lair is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2012, 07:20 AM   #1737
Master Po
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 358
My Ride: E46 no more
Quote:
Originally Posted by NFRs2000nyc View Post
Correct me if I am wrong, but I've heard that with the exception of the United States, Holiday Inns are actually 5 star/5 diamond hotels everywhere else in the world. True?

For example...

http://www.holidayinngoa.com/

http://holidayinnjaipur.com/

http://www.hisofiahotel.com/
That could very well be true.
I recall that when the first McDonalds opened in Brazil, the line was two blocks long, complete with bouncers, and it was considered the hottest and happening place in town. In the US McD is considered junk food.
Same with Walmart and Costco. In Taiwan they are above average brands.
It may have something to do with being an American brand than anything else.
__________________
Master Po is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2012, 09:50 PM   #1738
00stephen
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Ohio
Posts: 15
My Ride: '02 TJ, '87 Milano
Quote:
Originally Posted by 5ynd1cat3 View Post
C'mon man, everyone knows that the foundations for this country's greatness was built by the motorlodge. 'Murica!
You may be on to something -- the rise and decline of America's place in the world economy in the 20th century does correlate with rise and decline of HoJo's...
__________________
00stephen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2012, 09:51 PM   #1739
00stephen
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Ohio
Posts: 15
My Ride: '02 TJ, '87 Milano
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lair View Post
If the burden is on the defense, Z is f*cked.
But that's not what I was asking. We knew your opinion 86 pages ago.
__________________
00stephen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2012, 09:53 PM   #1740
00stephen
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Ohio
Posts: 15
My Ride: '02 TJ, '87 Milano
Quote:
Originally Posted by Master Po View Post
That could very well be true.
I recall that when the first McDonalds opened in Brazil, the line was two blocks long, complete with bouncers, and it was considered the hottest and happening place in town. In the US McD is considered junk food.
Same with Walmart and Costco. In Taiwan they are above average brands.
It may have something to do with being an American brand than anything else.
We could add the Chinese fascination with Buick to that list, too...
__________________
00stephen is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Censor is ON





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:18 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
(c) 1999 - 2011 performanceIX Inc - privacy policy - terms of use