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///M3 Forum
The BMW E46 ///M3 is the M version E46 and puts out an amazing 333 HP and 262 lb-ft of torque at stock specs! There are an amazing amount of modifications for both the coupe and convertible models so read up and get started modifying your cars today!

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Old 04-29-2012, 08:46 PM   #21
cyberlando
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ImolaSix, we need to do a photoshoot together , our cars are so alike and I love it. As soon as it gets nicer I'll be planning a shoot
funny you said that i thought you two were one person....in my mind i was trying to figure why your contradicting yourself
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Old 04-29-2012, 11:38 PM   #22
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i wonder how light 19's get nowa days, for that matter i wonder how light mine are?

i bought the car with csl replica's not sure what brand or anything but when i powder coated them they were pretty light!
They're not. Most likely cast and would probably be in the 23-26 lb. range.
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Old 04-29-2012, 11:43 PM   #23
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lol, I can bet that only 5% of M3 owners know what that is
I sure as hell hope not
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Old 04-29-2012, 11:45 PM   #24
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Old 04-29-2012, 11:48 PM   #25
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23 would be considered heavy so what would be considered light for 19's
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Old 04-29-2012, 11:52 PM   #26
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If you can afford BBS or some other quality light weight 19", do that.

If you don't plan on spending 4k on wheels and are going to buy reps, go 18's.

If you don't care how your car handles, buy heavy 19" rep wheels and hard park it.

Easy.
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Old 04-30-2012, 02:35 AM   #27
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A very very rough guideline for weight on wheels in the 17-19 range is anything that approaches 1lb per inch is very good anything under 1lb per inch is excellent and anything more then 1.5lb per inch is pretty heavy.
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Old 04-30-2012, 01:57 PM   #28
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The diameter and width of the rim or tire has nothing to do with breaking the rear end loose .
I'm not sure I can completely agree with this. "moment of inertia" suggests differently.
And a wider tire and rim certainly can aide in traction. Where a thinner W&T might start to somewhat break traction, a wider combo would hold at the thresehold.
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Old 04-30-2012, 02:27 PM   #29
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woww good info broo, i will admitt that i never heard of this before!!

but if that is the case why does the M3 CSL the competition level M3 with all its glory Come with 19's??
the CSL wheels are some of the lightest wheels on a production car. they are not light by lightweight aftermarket wheel standards but for production cars yes. they are made by BBS and BMW publishes they save a combined total of 24.2lbs at all corners over the non-csl 19" wheels. the Michelin Pilot Sport Cup tires used are also very light. another reason they cost so much.
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Old 04-30-2012, 02:33 PM   #30
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24 pounds thought the rule of thumb was one pound per inch
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Old 04-30-2012, 07:40 PM   #31
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I'm not sure I can completely agree with this. "moment of inertia" suggests differently.
And a wider tire and rim certainly can aide in traction. Where a thinner W&T might start to somewhat break traction, a wider combo would hold at the thresehold.
Moment of inertia sure does play a role but a light wheel can be just as stable as a heavier one as long as it paired with good tires . Another thing you cant forget is tire compound .

Here is a question for you, which wheel tire combo will have more traction ?

LTW5 17x8.5" Mounted with Hoosier A6 225/45ZR17

or

OEM CSL rims mounted with Michelin PS2 275/35ZR19

The reason why wider wheels/tires help cars NOT break traction is because they're often way too heavy and the car simply doesnt make that much power to break them loose. Thats why people often find that their car became slower after they put some gangsta rims on it

Look at it this way , cars that race in Touring Car Championships Series have 235 tires and they keep pretty stable on the track and on this forum most people have 275 tires mounted on the biggest rims you can find and they can barely keep out of the ditch
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Old 04-30-2012, 08:04 PM   #32
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Old 05-01-2012, 02:07 AM   #33
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The diameter and width of the rim or tire has nothing to do with breaking the rear end loose . Even weight was no relationship with size
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blocked Out View Post
Moment of inertia sure does play a role but a light wheel can be just as stable as a heavier one as long as it paired with good tires . Another thing you cant forget is tire compound .

The reason why wider wheels/tires help cars NOT break traction is because they're often way too heavy and the car simply doesnt make that much power to break them loose.
Yes I totally agree that the tire/compound has plenty to do with it. But I was only saying I can't agree with your statement, "diameter and width has nothing to do with breaking the rear end loose". I absolutely believe it does. Two exact same model tires and at the onset that the smaller width wheel starts to lose traction in most every circumstance the wider wheel will have traction and it's onset to lose traction will be later on. Thus width and contact patch is a factor.
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Old 05-01-2012, 10:08 AM   #34
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I have 19" rims and they can be a bit harsh. I expect that 18"s would give a little more cushion and be more comfortable while driving. However:

19" rims have tires with shorter sidewalls than smaller rims and this shorter sidewall flexes less under lateral load while cornering and improves handling for the car.
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Old 05-01-2012, 10:27 AM   #35
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Okay i realized more and more i read that most m3 owners are going towards the 18' rims rather than the 19's!!

i mean of course there is two big 20' m3 rims owners should shoot themselves but at the same time, what exactly is the reason behind choosing 18 9.5 over 19 9.5??

advantage and disadvantages ?

is it just taste?
I have 17x8 and 17x9.5 on my M3 - way too many upsides : cheaper tires, better ride and they come in at 14 and 15lbs.

From what I remeber, the OEM 18 set up come in at like 24-25lbs and the 19s are even heavier than that.

Last edited by halik007; 05-01-2012 at 10:33 AM.
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Old 05-01-2012, 12:15 PM   #36
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There is no doubt it is faster with the 18" rims and stock tires vs 20's and wide tires, but with as much as it breaks free I burn through tires more often than I go through oil changes using the 18's. With the 20's the weight seems to come into play both negatively for acceleration for sure, but also the highway ride seems to be better with the 20's. They look obnoxiously huge as well and as soon as I wear out the rubber it's back to the stock wheels.

I'm not debating that the smaller rims are better, I agree that they are and had I taken some measurements and done a little research before dumping cash on the 20's I probably would have just bought a nicer set of 18's and good rubber for them.

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Old 05-01-2012, 12:33 PM   #37
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There is no doubt it is faster with the 18" rims and stock tires vs 20's and wide tires, but with as much as it breaks free I burn through tires more often than I go through oil changes using the 18's. With the 20's the weight seems to come into play both negatively for acceleration for sure, but also the highway ride seems to be better with the 20's. They look obnoxiously huge as well and as soon as I wear out the rubber it's back to the stock wheels.

I'm not debating that the smaller rims are better, I agree that they are and had I taken some measurements and done a little research before dumping cash on the 20's I probably would have just bought a nicer set of 18's and good rubber for them.
How can the "highway ride" possibly be better on 20s?
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Old 05-01-2012, 01:16 PM   #38
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How can the "highway ride" possibly be better on 20s?
The only way I could explain it is that the car seems less jerky and it is probably due to the increased rotational mass acting like 4 giant flywheels and since the highway is smooth, the height of the sidewall doesn't really make much difference, it just feels like an ice skate gliding along. On regular in town roads the ride is, for lack of a better term, ****.
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Old 05-01-2012, 01:20 PM   #39
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I have a ZCP which came with the CSL wheels and I thought they were pretty heavy.

I have since opted for a set of DPE MT20s which actually happen to weigh ~20-22 pounds which is actually lighter than stock and half an in thicker all around with the same staggered setup. So being 19x8.5 and 19x10. Thats what you get when you spend 5k on a wheel though. I also got a set of Bridgestone Potenza RE-11 with 245/35 and 285/35. Making for a pretty harsh ride day to day but damn do they grip. The RE-11s are a pretty heavy tire so I didn't notice a difference.

When it comes to performance I have noticed a significant increase in cornering ability mostly due to the tires and suspension setup. Negative camber up front (-1.5) reduces the understeer significantly and sharpens steering response. Along with fully adjustable sways allows for dialing every little aspect. It all comes down to what you want and are willing to spend.

For the most bang for your buck setup, a square 18" setup with coils at or slightly below (<1") stock ride height, stiffer and adjustable sways, poly FCABs, with the pins taken out of the stock camber plates for -0.5 camber is the way I would go. Better ride quality, less unsprung weight (compared to the 19s), sharper steering, and a more balanced car that won't understeer all over god's green acre into a tree.

Side note: "Lowering" an E46 M3 won't really help but reducing the center of gravity will. However you want to make sure not to make put the center of roll below the ground, possibly having negative handling effects.
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Old 05-01-2012, 09:15 PM   #40
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Yes I totally agree that the tire/compound has plenty to do with it. But I was only saying I can't agree with your statement, "diameter and width has nothing to do with breaking the rear end loose". I absolutely believe it does. Two exact same model tires and at the onset that the smaller width wheel starts to lose traction in most every circumstance the wider wheel will have traction and it's onset to lose traction will be later on. Thus width and contact patch is a factor.
Well,if you put it this way then yes size and width does affect "breaking the rear loose" . If you compare same model rims and tires then the bigger rims paired with wider tires will make breaking the tires loose more difficult .

I was just focusing on the fact that you can get skinnier tires that are more sticky/stable then some wider tires, therefore there is no direct correlation with width and stability (breaking rear end loose). Yes you can use 2 sets of same brand/model as data to prove me wrong but when we talk tires, we need to take all kinds of tires into account .

Come on, you know what I mean
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