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Old 05-21-2012, 07:10 PM   #21
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Now you're being subjective by saying your handling being crisp and all that.

There is ZHP and non-ZHP arms, with unique part numbers, with the former having a different design.

Sorry but I don't buy your claim that the ball joint is responsible for steering feel. They are just that, ball joints, making the joint pivotable around an axis. If they are metal, all the better, they'll last longer.

It's the design, not the location of ball joints that is important. Change the design, you change a lot of things. And this, my friend, is the "myth" behind the ZHP saga. People need to realize this.
You really don't know what you're talking about. You realize the non-ZHP arms have their balljoints encased in nylon for NVH characteristics, right? Do you know what NVH is? What do you think all-metal vs. nylon does for steering feel? Please stop posting.
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Old 05-21-2012, 07:14 PM   #22
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You really don't know what you're talking about. You realize the non-ZHP arms have their balljoints encased in nylon for NVH characteristics, right? Do you know what NVH is? What do you think all-metal vs. nylon does for steering feel? Please stop posting.
You can't see beyond the this whole ball joint thing. Yes, the ball joints are different, but ball joint cannot result in a different steering feel by itself. Their primary purpose is to pivot around the joint. Who cares about the NVH? (and yes, I do know it). You digress.
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Old 05-21-2012, 07:24 PM   #23
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can someone post a pic of ZHP vs. non ZHP arms side by side? thanks.
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Old 05-21-2012, 07:33 PM   #24
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can someone post a pic of ZHP vs. non ZHP arms side by side? thanks.
Check out this post by alex323ci:

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showpos...2&postcount=18

Best I could do now. My flight is boarding...
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Old 05-21-2012, 07:45 PM   #25
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I have non oem Dorman control arms I picked up and installed from speedcrazy1532 last summer. Illinois winters, sh*tty roads, and no problems at all.
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Old 05-21-2012, 07:49 PM   #26
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You can't see beyond the this whole ball joint thing. Yes, the ball joints are different, but ball joint cannot result in a different steering feel by itself. Their primary purpose is to pivot around the joint. Who cares about the NVH? (and yes, I do know it). You digress.
Ugh. We're talking in circles here. YOU made the claim that the steering feel is improved with the ZHP control arms due to geometry changes. You provide no evidence of this geometry change.

THEN you refuted my claim that the balljoints in ZHP arms are what give you improved steering feel (over nylon-encased non-ZHP arms), NOT geometry within the arm itself.

You are wrong on every account. Do not make wild claims that ZHP arm geometry is different and is the reason for its increased feel or sportyness. All three points of the arm lie on the same axis at the same exact points as the non-ZHP arms and Meyle Arms. Otherwise the Meyle arms wouldn't be interchangeable with either.

Your claims are absolutely ridiculous.
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Old 05-21-2012, 07:52 PM   #27
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I have non oem Dorman control arms I picked up and installed from speedcrazy1532 last summer. Illinois winters, sh*tty roads, and no problems at all.
There's a company named Dorman that makes the OE control arms? I did not know that!

You sure you don't mean OE-style replacements?
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Old 05-21-2012, 07:53 PM   #28
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he said "non oem"
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Old 05-21-2012, 08:01 PM   #29
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Here's MY photo of the Meyle HD arms:



http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=841749
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Old 05-21-2012, 08:01 PM   #30
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exactly, I have the dorman arms too. THey're great and holding up well. Unfortunately I can't say the same about their CABs. I need to change them out.
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Old 05-21-2012, 08:13 PM   #31
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exactly, I have the dorman arms too. THey're great and holding up well. Unfortunately I can't say the same about their CABs. I need to change them out.
That's where I opted for HD bushings.
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Old 05-21-2012, 09:21 PM   #32
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Old 05-21-2012, 09:27 PM   #33
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uh. I would go oem definitely
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Old 05-21-2012, 09:43 PM   #34
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Doorman arms work really well for me. 4 years, no problem.
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Old 05-21-2012, 09:49 PM   #35
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So much cockslinging going on in here...

I'm not a physics or geometry major. But I drive a ZHP almost every day as my personal car, and non-ZHP 330i's (ZSP and standard) at work every day. The ZHP has a tighter steering feel and turns quicker than the non-ZHP 3'ers.

In addition (and don't ask me why because I don't engineer the cars, I just fix them), replacing LCAB's on the ZHP and 3'ers with the ZHP arms are a bigger headache sometimes than on non-ZHP cars. This could have something to do with the "geometry" of the arms, but like I said, I just get paid to replace them, not CAD them out and analyze their measurements and angles. Unless it's on the alignment rack.
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Old 05-21-2012, 10:09 PM   #36
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Don't forget the ZHP has 15mm lower springs, firmer struts/shocks, and thicker swaybar in front. Also keep in mind that hopefully you're comparing these with 9/01+ 330s which have the same rack as ZHPs. Further, again, Meyle HD, and ///M ZHP are for all intents and purposes IDENTICAL with respect to geometry and construction style/materials. So add all those up along w/ non-ZHPs having non-ZHP control arms (which are nylon-encased balljoints) and you have the "effect" of stiffer steering. Having different "geometry" would make no sense at all. Alignment specs are the same.
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Old 05-21-2012, 10:11 PM   #37
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Relax. I can read without the bold fonts just fine. I posted just above you a link to a picture that shows the ZHP and non-ZHP arms. They are different, read: the ZHP is thicker, beefier, i.e. they have a different geometry. How can you say I did not post a proof of this?

Thicker arms will result in a tighter steering, a fact that I don't need to claim.

If there is a claim here, it is the claim that metal ball joints resulting in tighter steering, and it belongs to you. The question is, can you back it up?

Quote:
Originally Posted by E46Mango View Post
Ugh. We're talking in circles here. YOU made the claim that the steering feel is improved with the ZHP control arms due to geometry changes. You provide no evidence of this geometry change.

THEN you refuted my claim that the balljoints in ZHP arms are what give you improved steering feel (over nylon-encased non-ZHP arms), NOT geometry within the arm itself.

You are wrong on every account. Do not make wild claims that ZHP arm geometry is different and is the reason for its increased feel or sportyness. All three points of the arm lie on the same axis at the same exact points as the non-ZHP arms and Meyle Arms. Otherwise the Meyle arms wouldn't be interchangeable with either.

Your claims are absolutely ridiculous.
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Old 05-21-2012, 10:21 PM   #38
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Don't forget the ZHP has 15mm lower springs, firmer struts/shocks, and thicker swaybar in front. Also keep in mind that hopefully you're comparing these with 9/01+ 330s which have the same rack as ZHPs. Further, again, Meyle HD, and ///M ZHP are for all intents and purposes IDENTICAL with respect to geometry and construction style/materials. So add all those up along w/ non-ZHPs having non-ZHP control arms (which are nylon-encased balljoints) and you have the "effect" of stiffer steering. Having different "geometry" would make no sense at all. Alignment specs are the same.
Ok this post shows how little you know about these cars. All I'm going to say is that the ZHP doesn't have lower springs or anything. Springs depend only on the options that a car has, not even the packages. Go back to 5 years ago and read jpr's extensive research on this.

Edit: my 05/01 build non-sport package 330 have the same 23.5pm front sway bar. ZHP doesn't have a thicker front sway bar either.
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Old 05-21-2012, 10:26 PM   #39
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I think I may have used the term "geometry" in a too technical way for mango to understand. It's not just about distances from point a to b. It's the whole 3D design I'm talking about here.
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Old 05-21-2012, 10:27 PM   #40
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Relax. I can read without the bold fonts just fine. I posted just above you a link to a picture that shows the ZHP and non-ZHP arms. They are different, read: the ZHP is thicker, beefier, i.e. they have a different geometry. How can you say I did not post a proof of this?

Thicker arms will result in a tighter steering, a fact that I don't need to claim.

If there is a claim here, it is the claim that metal ball joints resulting in tighter steering, and it belongs to you. The question is, can you back it up?

I had ZHP and non ZHP arms side by side at one point. They were identical asides for the balljoint. Even the stamped numbers were the same. I'll see if I can dig up the pictures I took
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