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Suspension & Braking
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Old 06-07-2012, 01:05 AM   #101
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I used to buy brake rotors off of eBay back in the early days of eBay, 1999-2003. I had a 90+ mile per day commute, and my cars went through brakes and tires every 20k miles. I spent money on name brand rotors, and they did not last any longer than the eBay ones.
But, back then, the majority of stuff on eBay was still American made, and it was just smaller shops who were looking to get into the business.
But what people fail to realize is that the Chinese are exploiting any and every market they can find to make money. They have a huge manufacturing capacity, and they need to create jobs. They also are pretty tech savvy, and they have absolutely invaded eBay. They are selling inferior, unregulated parts, and they study the markets, and they know what brands and models to target. BMW's are a good market for them, because they can make massive price cuts to the prices legitimate vendors charge, and still make a profit.
So, it is not like the older days on eBay, when Chinese parts stuck out with names like "Happy Motoring Parts". They have second generation, English speaking kids in California who set up the companies and write the ad copy. It is very hard to tell what is Chinese crap any more. They have invested a lot of time and very little money on the front end, to set up web pages and company names that sound legit. That is the big change.
Also, the floodgates have opened in the last few years, and they are shoving out parts as fast as they can make them. The entire thing is more sophisticated than it used to be. But the parts are inferior, and they don't care. eBay has also relaxed it's rules, and it is possible for vendors to hide bad feedback. eBay used to have some ethics. But now, as long as they get paid, they don't care.
Just look at how many more Chinese appliances and Consumer Electronics there are in stores now, compared to 2002. If a western company sets up a Chinese factory, and implement strict quality controls, then things are fine. They are perfectly capable of turning out quality products. But I have friends in quality control and engineering who took jobs setting up and running Chinese factories for US companies, and they have told me how hard it is to keep things running with their standards in place. Most companies thought they would be able to turn the factories over to Chinese engineers and QC people, but most have learned that they can not do that, because the management will not listen to Chinese Engineers and QC people, and they will slip back into sloppy, cheap, and dangerous practices if they don't have constant foreign oversight.
So, I used to buy some parts like brakes, off of eBay, and I never had a bad experience. But that was a long time ago, and things are different now. You really have no idea what you are getting any more. It HAS changed. It may not end in a catastrophic failure. It may just be an annoyance. But the possibility exists. And lets face it, most parts failures don't cause accidents, and most people just replace the part, and never complain at all. And most of these companies and the US import shell companies they set up are not getting any government oversight. No one is watching what is coming in, and if something horrible happens, chances are that they can't be touched by any lawsuit in the US. They will simply change the company name, and keep on selling the same parts. That is why you don't see stories about Chinese parts killing or injuring people. No one is looking for it. It is next to impossible to trace the origin of most of these parts. And the Chinese government will not cooperate with any attempt to bring legal action against any Chinese company. Most accidents are never investigated down to the level of determining what component failed, and what the source of that component was. So, you will never read about it. It would take something big, like a US Senators child being killed in an accident (God forbid), and a lot of pressure on the police to investigate the source of the failed component, a team of determined lawyers, and probably the US State Department involvement to trace something like a failed brake rotor to a Chinese company that made inferior parts. And until something like that happens, you never will read about stuff like this on the news, and the US Government will never get involved.
Also, the reason you can't find stuff like this on the Internet is because most people never know exactly what caused their accident, if it was a component failure. Even if they did, 99% of them would never even think to post it on a forum or website. Add in the fact that most people who belong to a forum are enthusiasts, who mostly buy name brand parts for their car, and it is not a surprise that there is so little information out there about the inferior Chinese parts flooding the market. At some point, someone like CNN or MSNBC may decide to start investigating the issue. The amount of parts flooding in may make this happen at some point. If they raise enough Hell about it, and put some dead kids crying mothers on TV, then you may get a Congressional investigation into this.
The Chinese used to be nervous about selling stuff to the US, because of quality issues. And they still are careful about selling Chinese branded products in the US. But they have found a back door that no one is watching - the replacement part industry. They don't need to sell whole cars, they can make more money, with less exposure, by selling them part by part. This is also why it is hard to trust parts sold by Pep Boys, AutoZone, etc. There is too much profit to be made by switching from US suppliers to some no-name Chinese brand.
So, you can buy Chinese parts, and chances are, you won't die in a fiery crash. But if you do, no one will notice. No one will investigate the source of the crash, let alone the component that caused it. No Government Agency will get involved. No lawyer will file a lawsuit, and if he does, he has almost no chance of finding an actual company to pin it on, and even if he does, he won't have any jurisdiction over them, and he will get no cooperation from the Chinese Government, or even the US Government.
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Old 06-07-2012, 01:28 AM   #102
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I believe that a couple of heuristics are at play here.

1) A part purchased at a premium must have been engineered or otherwise manufactured at a higher level than a part purchased at a lower price point
2) Brand name equals quality

Personally, I hope that we can listen to the experiences of other forum members who have gone against our heuristics to see whether they hold any significance today. Rather than ridiculing them and making claims that their actions are unsafe, let's just ride it out.
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Old 06-07-2012, 01:32 AM   #103
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The probability of a rotor busting like that and causing catastrophic failure are slim to none... That's all I'm saying. You are bound to get a wobble or be able to visually inspect the rotor to see if anything is going wrong with them before that happens. Find ONE instance where this has ever happened...
Who the hell said it has to bust? Crack, warp, I don't care what happens, I WANT MY BRAKES TO WORK.



And do brand names equal quality? No, but I can SEE THEIR ISO QUALIFICATIONS. Google Callahan brakes and the only thing you get are tommy boy references and a bunch of forum posts asking if the brakes are any good. I'm not going to buy something that HAS to be manufactured to a certain standard from a manufacturer THAT CANNOT PROVE THAT THEY HAVE MET ANY STANDARD AT ALL.

Now, if anyone who has bought these can post a data sheet that came with them that would be awesome and answer A LOT of questions.
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Old 06-07-2012, 02:47 AM   #104
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Jeez.

OP paid the same price for noname questionable quality rotors and pads. Thinks he got a sweet deal. Everybody gets pissed.

The first time OP goes for a spirited drive he will be hating life. If OP comes near me on a cruise or a track I will let him pass without hesitation as I do not want him behind me.

The first time OP slightly overheats his brakes there will be heat fractures.

To the OP: You are an idiot for saying you have never heard of or seen heat/stress fractures on cross-drilled rotors. You have obviously never been near a race car or race track.

To whoever was saying that the rotor can't just "explode" you didn't see the F1 race a couple years ago where someone's RF rotor just grenaded without any signs of failure before. Granted that this will more than likely never ever happen on a street car, I'm just showing you that it can indeed happen.
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Old 06-07-2012, 02:53 AM   #105
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I'll wait, and it won't happen. Heat fractures are not common. Have never had it, nor heard of any of my buddies having that and we're all car enthusiasts. Also, they are drilled and slotted so heat will even less of an issue than non-drilled oem.
lol
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Old 06-07-2012, 02:54 AM   #106
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To the OP: You are an idiot for saying you have never heard of or seen heat/stress fractures on cross-drilled rotors. You have obviously never been near a race car or race track.

To whoever was saying that the rotor can't just "explode" you didn't see the F1 race a couple years ago where someone's RF rotor just grenaded without any signs of failure before. Granted that this will more than likely never ever happen on a street car, I'm just showing you that it can indeed happen.
this
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Old 06-07-2012, 06:33 AM   #108
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Never, ever, ever stop spreading this message. Nothing that gives any hint that it comes from China should ever touch your car.
This would be nearly impossible.

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However, read this for some very interesting facts: http://honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=2502352
And make sure you download the pdf to see the government report.
Good read. Kind of sad reading because it points out how nearly all of our manufacturing has left the US. Nobody to blame except ourselves.

And before anyone makes a smug remark about how I (and the OP) are single-handedly destroying the U.S. brake manufacturing industry, remember that your Brembo and Meyle rotors are made in China as well.

I might as well add that I will agree that the no-name drilled rotors are likely poor quality for their intended use. Based on some of the information I have seen, I can see why there could be a higher failure rate with these. However, if you NEED this kind of braking capability (ie, tracking) you probably should be spending money on higher quality parts that were designed and manufactured for that purpose. Taking a blank and drilling holes in it is not the same as a "real" cross drilled rotor.

So for the OP, go easy on your brakes (as you already stated you would). They may not even be as reliable as the non-drilled version for daily driving based on some opinions.

As for me, I will continue to assert that the blanks are fine for me and my wife. (When she decides to start a career as an F1 race car driver I will insist on buying purpose built braking components.) They are cast chunks of grey iron machined to a certain specification. For my driving style they will be just fine.

Mango, I have used voice recognition software to compose this message as I have dutifully disposed of my keyboard.

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Old 06-07-2012, 07:41 AM   #109
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If a rotor breaks or the brakes fail on one side only (especially the front) the car will pull pivot on the oposite wheel. It doesn't even take a catastrophic failure.

That's the same reason you replace both left and right at the same time.

Sure, the odds are more likely that your carr will self destruct: cooling system will explode, you'll join the airbag club, your LCM will catch fire, your oil-pump shaft will shear, you'll 5th to 2nd money shift from a worn bushing, your subframe will collapse into the body, the disa pin will get sucked into the cylinder and cyl#2 spark plug tube will fill with oil causing a missfire.

And then there are the stupid incidents where the DSC gets turned off or you try to avoid some deer while trying/not trying to impress your friends in which you crash into a tree and your angel eyes catch fire... or the DUI charges for not taking the breathalizer... or the ebay pa - wait that is this thread.
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Old 06-07-2012, 01:35 PM   #110
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Everyone cool it and keep this on topic. Any more personal attacks, even a frown face and I'll ban you for a couple days.....and you know who I'm talking to.

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Old 06-07-2012, 01:37 PM   #111
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eheh... ok thank GOD for ignore list.....

Anyway, back on topic, I'm going to try these out and I'll report back as well how they work out. Or you will find me in the obituaries according to some people, as I will be driving like a F1 racer.
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Old 06-07-2012, 02:48 PM   #112
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The only people who buy cheap, non-ISO approved braking equipment are those who can not afford to. Those who can not afford to, should not be on the road.
The thought of a car on the road with brakes that can fail and cause injury to others just sickens me.
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Old 06-07-2012, 02:51 PM   #113
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The only people who buy cheap, non-ISO approved braking equipment are those who can not afford to. Those who can not afford to, should not be on the road.
The thought of a car on the road with brakes that can fail and cause injury to others just sickens me.
+1 That seals the deal. Case closed.
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Old 06-07-2012, 02:53 PM   #114
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Those who can not afford to, should not be on the road.
LOL OKAY buddy... This forum is ridiculous sometimes

I make plenty of money and still love saving money on products for our BMWs. Don't be a stuck up ____.
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Old 06-07-2012, 02:57 PM   #115
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Those who can not afford to, should not be on the road.
+1. If you cannot afford to properly maintain your vehicle then you have no place on the road. Simple as that. It drives up the cost for everyone else on the road who is actually responsible, uninsured motorist coverage is a perfect example.
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Old 06-07-2012, 03:26 PM   #116
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+1. If you cannot afford to properly maintain your vehicle then you have no place on the road. Simple as that. It drives up the cost for everyone else on the road who is actually responsible, uninsured motorist coverage is a perfect example.
Buying brand new rotors IS properly maintaining your vehicle... How does buying cheap rotors drive up cost for everyone else?

Uninsured motorist coverage?? WTF are you talking about, are you in the wrong thread?

20,000+ sets of these rotors have been sold. Where is the proof of them causing a serious accident? Unless you are SLAMMING on your brakes every single time you stop over and over again, a rotor is not just going to "explode" on you. The odds are you are NOT going to have a serious problem after you install these rotors. Ok, you may have to replace them before more expensive brands, and you may have to inspect them more often, but they aren't going to make you roll your car over on I-75.
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Old 06-07-2012, 03:30 PM   #117
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eheh... ok thank GOD for ignore list.....

Anyway, back on topic, I'm going to try these out and I'll report back as well how they work out. Or you will find me in the obituaries according to some people, as I will be driving like a F1 racer.
or you will be fine, but you injured/killed someone else instead.
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Old 06-07-2012, 03:32 PM   #118
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20,000+ sets of these rotors have been sold. Where is the proof of them causing a serious accident?
maybe it's because they are dead, that's why they can't post lol
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Old 06-07-2012, 03:35 PM   #119
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or you will be fine, but you injured/killed someone else instead.
Again, where is the proof? Has this EVER happened? Has there EVER been an inncident where someone has even had one of these rotors fail under the "callahan" name? Not that I can find, and believe me, I wanted to find something bad on them so I could convence myself not to buy them, but I can't. Can you?
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Old 06-07-2012, 03:38 PM   #120
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