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Political Talk
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Old 06-08-2012, 11:02 AM   #61
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But don't forget that it was the 2nd Reagan and Bush 1 administrations that re-wrote the CAFE rules to allow the Big 3 to keep making those platforms as is, so they could maximize their profits in the 90's. The issues of bad mgmt in Detroit (and it was mgmt who signed those union deals in the first place) have been around for decades.
I get the fact that it was crappy management that sidled GM, Ford, and Chrysler with huge legacy costs that crippled their course of available actions in the future. Corporate management today is a lot smarter, which is why no company offers pensions to new employees and most clamp down on any organizational attempts on their workforce.

Huge monolithic organizations have a lot of moving, legacy parts, and it's harder for them to be nimble to respond to changing market conditions. Ultimately the blame goes to the top, which is why management and equity holders are always wiped out in the event of bankruptcy, but that doesn't mean government is blameless either.

Anyways, back to the point of minimum wages. Smart management will simply eliminate positions that are worth less than the minimum wage. It doesn't help anybody but the people who are on the fringe of that cost-benefits analysis while hurting everybody below it in the form of lost jobs and everybody above it in the form of higher costs (due to a decrease in productivity/wage ratio).
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Old 06-08-2012, 11:07 AM   #62
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I have no problem with the minimum wage staying on par with inflation. If it was an increase once adjusting for inflation, then I would feel differently. The "free market" has shown in the past that it needs some regulation. I've seen too many cases where employers classify non-exempt positions as exempt simply to avoid having to pay them overtime, despite being in direct violation of FLSA.
Sorry, no dice. Pay has nothing to do with inflation. Pay has to do with a job, and what it takes to get someone to do it. I bet you would not clean my toilet right? If I offered you 10K per hour, you'd be on the first plane to NY with a toilet brush. Not paying overtime is a crime, and I am all for going after employers who don't. I am also a big anti- internship advocate, as that is nothing but slavery. Conning young people into doing TONS of work for free.....very few people know that internships are illegal. It's a matter of simple math. If the job calls for $5 an hour, I can hire two teenagers to do it. I can show them some skills, teach them the ropes, so that later on, they can be productive members of society. Since the minimum wage is around $8, I will only hire one person to do the job. I will work them harder. I will hire someone older so that I don't have to worry about them (they are older, and NEED to work, so they take it more seriously than a teenager) and I also don't need to waste my time teaching the person anything. The end result? You are down one job, and 3 unproductive individuals result from your minimum wage. Now, multiply it by the tens of millions, and you will quickly see why the American workforce has become a joke.
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Old 06-08-2012, 11:10 AM   #63
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Old 06-08-2012, 11:15 AM   #64
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Sorry, no dice. Pay has nothing to do with inflation.
It does when examining a minimum that is rooted in parameters that are impacted by inflation. Your examples are interesting but irrelevant.
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Old 06-08-2012, 11:18 AM   #65
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I am also a big anti- internship advocate, as that is nothing but slavery. Conning young people into doing TONS of work for free.....very few people know that internships are illegal.
If only you knew what you were talking about.
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Old 06-08-2012, 11:26 AM   #66
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UNpaid internships are illegal, but if the intern is getting paid in money or in credit hours, it's perfectly legal.
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Old 06-08-2012, 11:33 AM   #67
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UNpaid internships are illegal, but if the intern is getting paid in money or in credit hours, it's perfectly legal.
Still not accurate.


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Originally Posted by U.S. Department of Labor - Wage and Hour Division


The Test For Unpaid Interns

There are some circumstances under which individuals who participate in "for-profit" private sector internships or training programs may do so without compensation. The Supreme Court has held that the term "suffer or permit to work" cannot be interpreted so as to make a person whose work serves only his or her own interest an employee of another who provides aid or instruction. This may apply to interns who receive training for their own educational benefit if the training meets certain criteria. The determination of whether an internship or training program meets this exclusion depends upon all of the facts and circumstances of each such program.

The following six criteria must be applied when making this determination:
  1. The internship, even though it includes actual operation of the facilities of the employer, is similar to training which would be given in an educational environment;
  2. The internship experience is for the benefit of the intern;
  3. The intern does not displace regular employees, but works under close supervision of existing staff;
  4. The employer that provides the training derives no immediate advantage from the activities of the intern; and on occasion its operations may actually be impeded;
  5. The intern is not necessarily entitled to a job at the conclusion of the internship; and
  6. The employer and the intern understand that the intern is not entitled to wages for the time spent in the internship.

If all of the factors listed above are met, an employment relationship does not exist under the FLSA, and the Act's minimum wage and overtime provisions do not apply to the intern. This exclusion from the definition of employment is necessarily quite narrow because the FLSA's definition of "employ" is very broad. Some of the most commonly discussed factors for "for-profit" private sector internship programs are considered below.
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Old 06-08-2012, 11:37 AM   #68
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It must be hard to just walk around day in day out, living on cloud 9 ignoring the facts of life.
It's a good thing your family gave you a job. otherwise you'd be getting slapped for $5 an hour.
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Old 06-08-2012, 11:42 AM   #69
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Still not accurate.
Huh, interesting.....thanks for the info!
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Old 06-08-2012, 11:50 AM   #70
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Unpaid internships are the lifeblood of small law firms. My cousin had to work for 5 years unpaid before she got a position at her firm (she's technically an agent though). My company cannot do unpaid internships, so we never get interns. Although it really can be exploitative, an unpaid internship at a law firm still shows up on your resume and does teach you skills.

I worked for minimum wage when I was in HS, I think I'm doing pretty well for myself these days. I never expected to have a house and 2 kids on it though.
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Old 06-08-2012, 12:22 PM   #71
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It's a good thing your family gave you a job. otherwise you'd be getting slapped for $5 an hour.
I don't work for my family.
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Old 06-08-2012, 12:26 PM   #72
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Still not accurate.
Read your own list. While that IS the criteria, 99% of unpaid internships don't meet them. There have been plenty of cases where interns sue and win. Hell, I actually know someone who took an internship just so he can sue them.

99% of unpaid internships FAIL to meet this.

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The employer that provides the training derives no immediate advantage from the activities of the intern; and on occasion its operations may actually be impeded
They bank on the fact the people just don't know. So while your paper example is great, in reality it is not practiced. Most internships spend 20% of the time teaching the intern something, and the other 80% they spend using the intern to do trivial work.
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Old 06-08-2012, 12:27 PM   #73
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And you fail. Read your own list. While that IS the criteria, 99% of unpaid internships don't meet them. There have been plenty of cases where interns sue and win. Hell, I actually know someone who took an internship just so he can sue them.
Lovely person, I'm sure.
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Old 06-08-2012, 12:34 PM   #74
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Lovely person, I'm sure.
I didn't say they were a friend of mine. I was just using them as an example. IMHO, I'm glad he did it. I don't think it's right to work someone, without compensating them. He "interned" for a production company, but instead of being taught editing, pre/post production, etc, he was their errand boy, and like AOG said, they do it because they KNOW you want to put "Interned at XYZ Productions" on your resume, regardless of the fact that you were cleaning their toilets. I'm glad some people have the balls to punish companies that exploit young and naive individuals with promises which are BS.

My wife interned at a Judge's office in NJ when she was in law school (or college, not 100% sure) and she did it for experience and credits. That was a REAL internship. An internship at a company IMHO is BS, and they SHOULD be sued. That is the point of a low level company position. Someone can start out in the mail room, and work their way up. There is no reason to "intern" someone doing dog sh!t work promising them "management experience" and "the sky is the limit."
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Old 06-08-2012, 12:34 PM   #75
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Read your own list.
How about you read what you actually write.


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...very few people know that internships are illegal.

The above statement is false. I provided information directly from the United States Department of Labor as supporting evidence.



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Old 06-08-2012, 02:30 PM   #76
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How about you read what you actually write.





The above statement is false. I provided information directly from the United States Department of Labor as supporting evidence.



My apologies, I should have been more specific. 99% of unpaid internships are illegal.
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Old 06-08-2012, 05:11 PM   #77
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Why dont people relize that once min wage goes up to 10 dollars, the prices at a lot of things will go up to offset the rise in wage. Employers will hire less, and lay off some. If I owend a subway, paying 50 dollars an hour for employees would be too much, I would have to cut 2 of them.

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Old 06-08-2012, 05:19 PM   #78
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Why dont people relize that once min wage foes up to 10 dollars, the prices at alot of things will go up to offset the rise in wage. Emploiers will hire less, and lay off some. If I owend a subway, paying 50 dollars an hour for employees would be to much, I would have to cut 2 of them.
I'm willing to bet $50/hr that you don't own a Subway or a small business for that matter.
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Old 06-08-2012, 06:26 PM   #79
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Australia has a 15/hr minimum wage and 5% unemployment.
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Old 06-08-2012, 06:55 PM   #80
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I'm willing to bet $50/hr that you don't own a Subway or a small business for that matter.
"If" I owned a Subway

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