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Forced Induction Forum Sponsored by Active Autowerke
Discuss supercharging, turbocharging and even nitrous and water injection here.
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Old 08-20-2012, 09:37 PM   #21
patch06
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My first frustration is in investing my time and money in this kit and not getting support. Besides todays email to AA I really havent received many replies from AA without posting here or calling you guy 2 or 3 times in a day as well as having the installer contacting you as well.

This is where the frustration begins.

There is the fact that including your message right here, that you are not suggesting anything to do to repair the vehicle. I have been told its not our problem. No mention of what could have gone wrong, what to look out for. VERY quick to deny liability when I was pushing to get some support.

It seems this was interpreted as a was to push blame (which can be in any direction, but perhaps a little more dialog or a few more questions could have been asked)

Design? You contacted the installer and asked them why they had the wrong intercooler as well as other parts but they were all parts that you sent, your company made it out as if I ordered that seperateparticular intercooler but it was the one with the kit I ordered, arent the kits made to order? the brackets never fit and instead of a solution or replacement we were met with silence.

Tune? AA has never given any reply on the fact that the car was never running properly from day 1 (idle hunting HARD)

Also what about that you have advertised the kit to 345HP . You give no indication that this Dyno number includes Headers, Exhaust, or even Meth. We all know there are variables in this but no real explanation and even metions of needing Meth to get to this number from you but never on the advertised webpages.

does this kit make 345 HP with just a 325 and the SC? What car is this?

I thought I was buying the best most reliable SC kit for a 325. I now see I have taken the wrong path.

I travel very often and I am not around much but when I have time I spend alot of it with my car. It is regretful that you are not supporting an enthusiast and throwing up a curtain of deniability without even reaching out to assist.

I see I have made a grave mistake and hope no one else does. I see there are many M's here that run kits from AA with no problems and perhaps its because I have a 325 but I still expect to have the service and consideration that preceded your company.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew@Activeautowerke View Post
Carlos,

I can totally understand your frustration no one ever wants to hear they have a cylinder down. However I have yet to see any information that leads you to believe we have done anything wrong in our design,tune ect...

Was a compression test or any other engine health related tests done before installing a supercharger kit?

Please understand it is very hard to diagnose a vehicle through email and we are doing the best we can with the information you have provided.
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Old 08-20-2012, 10:43 PM   #22
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Carlos,

It seems your mind is already made up but I will still continue to help you figure out why this happened to your engine. You may take it or leave it the choice is yours.

Questions:

You never made the correct amount of power from the get go, which is why im asking if you ever had a compression test to check the engines health before installing the supercharger. If the engine was not healthy adding a supercharger will only make the problem worse.

When you had the car on the dyno were any of the values out of spec afr,timing ect?
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Old 08-21-2012, 09:15 AM   #23
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At this point the head will have to come off the motor, bare minimum. Until that happens we will not be able to shed any light on what happened to the car. We will need a lot more information before we can tell you what went wrong and what the best way to go about fixing it would be.

I believe the problems with the fitment and parts that were shipped with the kit had to do with how it was ordered. The E46 has many many variations and if some information is left out the wrong parts get shipped. These aren't a one size fits all deal.
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Old 08-21-2012, 09:30 AM   #24
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Don't you think your company should get those answers as to the specifics of the use case before shipping to make certain the right parts get shipped?

Personally, I don't think orders should be getting shipped without full understanding of the customers use case. Perhaps you can take this as a lessons learned and strengthen your business process so that any future customers do not have to deal with a similar situation.
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Old 08-21-2012, 09:42 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by vI6ious View Post
Don't you think your company should get those answers as to the specifics of the use case before shipping to make certain the right parts get shipped?

Personally, I don't think orders should be getting shipped without full understanding of the customers use case. Perhaps you can take this as a lessons learned and strengthen your business process so that any future customers do not have to deal with a similar situation.
We do make sure of the specifics before kits are shipped. I believe the kit was ordered through HPF for the customer. If there were details left out in the ordering process there isn't much more we can do.
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Old 08-21-2012, 10:30 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zak@ActiveAutowerke View Post
We do make sure of the specifics before kits are shipped. I believe the kit was ordered through HPF for the customer. If there were details left out in the ordering process there isn't much more we can do.
this doesn't make sense to me. If you make sure of specifics before kits are shipped there would be no details left out before the order was processed and shipped.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zak@ActiveAutowerke View Post
The E46 has many many variations and if some information is left out the wrong parts get shipped. These aren't a one size fits all deal.
If a buyer leaves out information in an order, those details should be found before shipping, or at least that's my opinion.

Reading between the lines what I take from your response is that HPF provided the wrong order information producing the mix up in the order.

Whatever the case, I feel bad for the OP, this situation sucks for all parties involved
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Old 08-21-2012, 12:38 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zak@ActiveAutowerke View Post
We do make sure of the specifics before kits are shipped. I believe the kit was ordered through HPF for the customer. If there were details left out in the ordering process there isn't much more we can do.
If you guys look at your records you will see that this was ordered from Viral directly. I took the car to HPF just for the install. They had nothing to do with ordering this.
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Old 08-21-2012, 12:41 PM   #28
patch06
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew@Activeautowerke View Post
Carlos,

It seems your mind is already made up but I will still continue to help you figure out why this happened to your engine. You may take it or leave it the choice is yours.

Questions:

You never made the correct amount of power from the get go, which is why im asking if you ever had a compression test to check the engines health before installing the supercharger. If the engine was not healthy adding a supercharger will only make the problem worse.

When you had the car on the dyno were any of the values out of spec afr,timing ect?
My mind is made up that I am just trying to get my car running again, find out what happened, and if it will happen again.

These are questions you are asking for the first time. I never was asked about it when reporting problems in the past. Now that you are asking them I will get answers. I dont have them offhand but I ill get them ASAP.
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Old 08-21-2012, 01:40 PM   #29
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Why wouldn't you take it back to HPF for diagnosis? Arguably, it should be a shop independent of both the kit manufacturer and the installer that performs this diagnosis. However, from my own observations on two forums, its my personal feeling that HPF would perform an unbiased analysis.

If there's an issue with the hardware, have the diagnosing shop document it. Then reach back out to AA will this tangible evidence. They should warrant the part, the cost to diagnose, and the cost to fix.

If the issue appears to have been caused by the install, have the diagnosing shop document it. If the evidence is there, they should cover the cost to diagnose and the cost to repair.

If the issue appears to have been an existing condition, then you're on the hook for the diagnosis and repair.

As an example - there was mentioned poor compression on one of the cylinders - unless you documented healthy compression prior to install, I'm just warning you that you will have no recourse with the kit manufacturer or installer. Whether or not it were an existing condition, you'll have to chalk it up to a tough lesson learned.

Good luck and remember to be direct with all parties.
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Old 08-21-2012, 04:52 PM   #30
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Man GL OP, this is why I build my own sh!t. Too many shady vendors that wanna eat your wallet Hold the fvck up there was a build thread made about this car. The wrong parts were installed in the build, nothing was said then. Pathetic, pure trash. http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthr...325+aa+install Last post on that thread.. You can see the cooler in the 3rd picture. Active has a long history of inflating their numbers on every platform. Sorry this happened to you man!

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Old 08-21-2012, 09:07 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xixixi View Post
Man GL OP, this is why I build my own sh!t. Too many shady vendors that wanna eat your wallet Hold the fvck up there was a build thread made about this car. The wrong parts were installed in the build, nothing was said then. Pathetic, pure trash. http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthr...325+aa+install Last post on that thread.. You can see the cooler in the 3rd picture. Active has a long history of inflating their numbers on every platform. Sorry this happened to you man!
If any wrong parts were shipped back in 2010 when the kit was ordered I can assure you the car was not ran with them.


We are communicating with the op via email in an effort to figure out what may have happened.
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Old 08-21-2012, 10:12 PM   #32
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OP: this situation really does suck, for you especially because you're the one that's out of a ride and a good chunk of change, but also for the various shops involved. I say this because even if the damage turns out to be no ones fault, the finger pointing has already been done and this is what people remember unfortunately.

Also, I believe AA is advertising BHP not whp. For a gear box that 330bhp (which is really optimistic for a 325) equals roughly 290rwhp (figure 10-15% for drivetrain losses). So your still 30rwhp down...

You say the car idled like crap from the get-go? Why was it dyno'ed if this was the case? Were the fuel trims checked? Have you pulled the plugs? What were the AFRs during the pull? You could have washed a cylinder but this should have been caught long before it caused damage...

Did you do anything for crankcase ventilation? Does the car smoke heavily from the crank case while running(from the port on the valve cover (unplugged) or the dipstick with the stick removed)? This could be a sign of bad rings or cranked ringlands.

White, sweet smelling smoke from the exhaust? Crappy looking oil? Head gasket.

No matter what the cause it's not surprising the car is running like crap when it's down a cylinder.

Have you tried removing the charge piping and reflashing the factory tune? I know it won't fix a mechanical problem but it might make troubleshooting easier.

What exactly were you doing when the symptoms (vibrations) started? Merging into traffic, sitting at a stop light...?

We'll get this thing figured man, no worries. It might be an easier fix than you think.

Last edited by SH4DY; 08-21-2012 at 10:14 PM.
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Old 08-26-2012, 11:20 PM   #33
patch06
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THanks for the Reply, some answers and comments below

Quote:
Originally Posted by SH4DY View Post
OP: this situation really does suck, for you especially because you're the one that's out of a ride and a good chunk of change, but also for the various shops involved. I say this because even if the damage turns out to be no ones fault, the finger pointing has already been done and this is what people remember unfortunately.

Also, I believe AA is advertising BHP not whp.
Correct
Quote:
Originally Posted by SH4DY View Post
For a gear box that 330bhp (which is really optimistic for a 325) equals roughly 290rwhp (figure 10-15% for drivetrain losses). So your still 30rwhp down...
AA actually advertises 345 BHP and dont mention headers or any other mods.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SH4DY View Post
You say the car idled like crap from the get-go?
Yes, until it would warm up completely. this was longer than just letting the temp gauge get to normal, it would take another 10+ mins before really bad idel hunting would not be bad. It would still Idle hunt when stopped.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SH4DY View Post
Why was it dyno'ed if this was the case?
Im sure it was dynoed after the car warmed up
Quote:
Originally Posted by SH4DY View Post
Were the fuel trims checked?
I did not
Quote:
Originally Posted by SH4DY View Post
Have you pulled the plugs?
Yes, cylinder 6 seemed a bit white on the ground strap but otherwise normal
Quote:
Originally Posted by SH4DY View Post
What were the AFRs during the pull?
they were safe but there is no Data logging saved.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SH4DY View Post
You could have washed a cylinder but this should have been caught long before it caused damage...
again this car only has 600 miles and would run great when heated up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SH4DY View Post
Did you do anything for crankcase ventilation? Does the car smoke heavily from the crank case while running(from the port on the valve cover (unplugged) or the dipstick with the stick removed)? This could be a sign of bad rings or cranked ringlands.
White, sweet smelling smoke from the exhaust? Crappy looking oil? Head gasket.
no smoke i've noticed coming from anywhere.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SH4DY View Post
No matter what the cause it's not surprising the car is running like crap when it's down a cylinder.

Have you tried removing the charge piping and reflashing the factory tune? I know it won't fix a mechanical problem but it might make troubleshooting easier.
Was thinking about this but I really have no time and am usually travelling hence dropping it off to get looked at.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SH4DY View Post
What exactly were you doing when the symptoms (vibrations) started? Merging into traffic, sitting at a stop light...?
stopping at a light and when I stopped I could feel the engine vibrating and the check engine light came on


We'll get this thing figured man, no worries. It might be an easier fix than you think.[/QUOTE]

heres some more info:

Cylinder 1 Compression 195 Leak Down 9%
Cylinder 2 Compression 190 Leak Down 10%
Cylinder 3 Compression 195 Leak Down 10%
Cylinder 4 Compression 195 Leak Down 10%
Cylinder 5 Compression 195 Leak Down 10%
Cylinder 6 Compression 30 Leak Down 90%

Bore scoped cylinder 6 and did not see anything that would compromise the piston, so no visible damage or scarring.

thanks again for reply
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Old 08-28-2012, 10:43 AM   #34
patch06
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbfrancis3 View Post
Why wouldn't you take it back to HPF for diagnosis?
Hi Francis thanks for the email, great points that dont seem to be so easy to get across. The car is at the shop now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbfrancis3 View Post
Arguably, it should be a shop independent of both the kit manufacturer and the installer that performs this diagnosis. However, from my own observations on two forums, its my personal feeling that HPF would perform an unbiased analysis.
agreed, however AA has told me without the car being sent to the AA shop in Florida they cant dont anything.
I wonder what happens to anyone else that buys an AA kit that cant ship there car to Florida does?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbfrancis3 View Post
If there's an issue with the hardware, have the diagnosing shop document it. Then reach back out to AA will this tangible evidence. They should warrant the part, the cost to diagnose, and the cost to fix.
right now I have a diagnosis but have decision to make. Its going to be WAY cheaper to just replace the engine at this point. Tearing it down and rebuilding it with purchased parts will most probably be much more expensive. AA is not even open to this approach so it would not be as simple as them warrantying the part according to the communication I have received.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbfrancis3 View Post
If the issue appears to have been caused by the install, have the diagnosing shop document it. If the evidence is there, they should cover the cost to diagnose and the cost to repair.
agreed

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbfrancis3 View Post
If the issue appears to have been an existing condition, then you're on the hook for the diagnosis and repair.
absolutely

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbfrancis3 View Post
As an example - there was mentioned poor compression on one of the cylinders - unless you documented healthy compression prior to install, I'm just warning you that you will have no recourse with the kit manufacturer or installer. Whether or not it were an existing condition, you'll have to chalk it up to a tough lesson learned.
there is almost none which is why the car is not running properly

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbfrancis3 View Post
Good luck and remember to be direct with all parties.
thanks
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Old 09-09-2012, 05:57 AM   #35
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I completely missed this thread until I was led to it by a link in another thread.

Is the OP still around? Let me try a few things. Wont a bad valve on #6 cylinder cause a compression AND a leak down issue?

Are you POSITIVE no compression test was done by HPF techs before the AA kit was installed. i would be shocked beyond words if that was not the case.

None the less, fixing a bad valve is a far cry than a total rebuild.
AA may be guilty of many things. They should have answered your inquiries no matter what.
But at the end of the day, if you cannot produce a pre kit install compression AND leak down test, then AA has no choice but to give you ADVICE only in the steps to fix your problem.

Let this be a lesson to EVERYONE planning on getting any kind of major motor work whether it be internal or bolt on....INSIST on a full diagnostic, particularly compression and leak down BEFORE ANY work is attempted. All this must be carefully documented. You HAVE to do this to protect yourself, no matter what the cost might be, look at the downside of not having these things done!
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Old 09-11-2012, 12:57 AM   #36
patch06
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bdave View Post
I completely missed this thread until I was led to it by a link in another thread.

Is the OP still around?
yes Im here. I have been overseas for a while but actually on a flight home now. Love the plane wifi!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bdave View Post
Let me try a few things. Wont a bad valve on #6 cylinder cause a compression AND a leak down issue?
that is what I am thinking, Valve, blow gasket?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bdave View Post
Are you POSITIVE no compression test was done by HPF techs before the AA kit was installed. i would be shocked beyond words if that was not the case.
yes this is what I was told.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bdave View Post
None the less, fixing a bad valve is a far cry than a total rebuild.
AA may be guilty of many things. They should have answered your inquiries no matter what.
But at the end of the day, if you cannot produce a pre kit install compression AND leak down test, then AA has no choice but to give you ADVICE only in the steps to fix your problem.
yes your totally right that they cant be responsible. The communication or lack of is 100% their responisbility. To this day I have never had one suggestion as to why it idle hunts besides a smoke test that I had already done. and this suggestion was pretty recent


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bdave View Post
Let this be a lesson to EVERYONE planning on getting any kind of major motor work whether it be internal or bolt on....INSIST on a full diagnostic, particularly compression and leak down BEFORE ANY work is attempted. All this must be carefully documented. You HAVE to do this to protect yourself, no matter what the cost might be, look at the downside of not having these things done!
absolutely. Unfortunately seems that HPF is busy while i am home. I would like to take the car to an AA authorized installer in Portland but Im not sure that exists. I should have some news this week
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Old 09-12-2012, 08:55 PM   #37
patch06
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HPF was too busy during this week or so that I am home so I will be taking it to pacificmotorsports tomorrow to see what they can tell me.
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Old 09-18-2012, 05:57 PM   #38
patch06
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And the latest from Pacific Motorsports...

Yesterday:
We can duplicate the Cyl #6 misfire and rough running. We have swapped the coil, spark plug and fuel injector and have ruled them out as possible causes. Our leak down numbers are a little different than yours however. Cyl #6 is at less than 10 %.

Today:
After removing the valve cover And checking the valve train it there are no signs of mechanical engine damage
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Old 09-18-2012, 06:30 PM   #39
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hmmmmmm
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Old 09-18-2012, 07:07 PM   #40
patch06
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrippinBimmer View Post
hmmmmmm
right?

now I'm thinking tune. The tune sent from AA was bad twice right out the gate. Going to try to find a stock 325i DME and injectors. I think the car should at least idle properly if these are installed?
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