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General E46 Forum
This is the place to get answers, opinions and everything you need related to your E46 (sedan, coupe, convertible and wagon) BMW!

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Old 10-12-2012, 12:20 PM   #321
Kubica
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stinger9 View Post
Depends what you see as help.
Wow, that's profound.

Specific answers are helpful. Telling someone to buy the "small" clamps is not. Clown.
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Old 10-12-2012, 12:50 PM   #322
Stinger9
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I meant you need more serious help than clamps
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Old 10-12-2012, 02:25 PM   #323
Alex323Ci
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Originally Posted by jfoj View Post
and do not worry about be stranded due to a imminent fuel pump failure.

BTW, as we go into the Fall & Winter months, I expect the cold temps to bring up a flurry of pump failures due to metal contracting causing either the pump armature to drag on the inside of the pump due to worn bushings or brushes failing to properly contact the worn commutator. So I expect a number of people to be commenting on this thread at the outside temps drop.
i haven't been back to this thread as i already stated my point and see yours.
having read this post about cold and increasing the likely hood of failures, not sure i can agree. i don't think any cold contraction would do this to that extent and let's not forget it is also surrounded and emersed in gasoline. and yes although gasoline has a freezing point well below the car will see, i conceed it will get cold . i just never heard of these electrical pumps going out in cold weather (like hot weather) to reinforce your theory.

*Also I don't know if this has been posted anywhere in this thread. But more often than not. when the pump acts up you can hit the bottom of the gas tank under pump (with hand or rubber mallet) and it'll get it going again if stranded. this is not saying it always works as some pump motors are completely shot. this also does not change one will still need to replace pump.
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Old 10-12-2012, 10:12 PM   #324
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Alex,

What you have to realize is cold to you is not cold to our area. This is a fact that I have witnessed many times. The fuel pump is a basic DC brush motor, just like a starter motor. What happens in very cold temps is the copper and metal actually contract more than the plastic/mica commutator insulation. Once the copper/metal contract the brushes can no longer make a good connection to the commutator bars on a badly worn commutator.

Last Winter we had a cold snap where temps droped below freezing, probably in the 20F range, maybe lower. I had 4 failed fuel pumps find me that week!! I was not happy that I had to replace a few of them outside. It was so cold, I had to use a hair dryer to soften and expand the flexible plastic fuel line to get it installed over the sender on a few M cars as they do not have the pump and sender as an assembly.

Yes hitting the tank can jar the fuel pump started, this is the same thing you do with a bad starter motor. What the hitting does is cause the brushes to make contact on the worn commutator.

Mark my word, you will see quite a few Northern owners pop up on the radar in January when the ultra cold temps hit.
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Solve your misfires, lean codes, rough idle - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=897616

Fuel pump failures - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=929501

Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temps, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose fan switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299

Last edited by jfoj; 10-12-2012 at 10:15 PM.
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Old 10-12-2012, 10:48 PM   #325
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Always hard to argue with experience.

I defer to the man who has done many.
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Old 10-13-2012, 02:06 PM   #326
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I think my BRAND NEW fuel pump is bad.

About a week ago I installed a new fuel pump. The brand is the VDO/Siemens that everybody uses.

I noticed a few issues such as whenever the car is cold in the morning like 40-50F outside temperature and whenever I try to start the car it ALWAYS dies the first time. When I try starting it the 2nd time, it starts up and runs without any issues. My old broken pump never did this.


And today there is an even bigger problem. I went to the gas station to get some fuel, filled it up all the way and when I started driving again I noticed the needle hasn't moved, its still on empty.

It will be really annoying having a broken fluid gauge and since it already has these 2 issues, there might be more problems with this pump in the future.

Just wondering if this is considered normal?
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Old 10-13-2012, 02:09 PM   #327
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Replace it. It should have warranty.
The needle its just a sign of being defective. Or maybe the conection is not making good contact.
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Old 10-13-2012, 07:25 PM   #328
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The fuel level float on the pump may not have been installed to allow the float move up and down. It's at the end of a wire.
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Old 10-13-2012, 07:50 PM   #329
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OP,

Suggest you see the link below in my signature for the Hidden OBC Menu, you need to check what side of your tank is actually having problems.

You probably have to pull your pump regardless and it is not too hard, so suggest you plan on checking the float to make sure it is not bent or hanging on something. Make sure you have 1/2 tank of fuel or less of you plan on pulling your pump again.

Also your starting problem is not likely your fuel pump, but a typical cold climate start problem. Suggest you see the first link below in my signature. Suggest you look closely at the DISA, CCV hoses, CCV lower oil return line and SAP vacuum hoses.
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Solve your misfires, lean codes, rough idle - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=897616

Fuel pump failures - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=929501

Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temps, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose fan switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299
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Old 10-14-2012, 03:49 AM   #330
adaseb
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Originally Posted by jfoj View Post
OP,

Suggest you see the link below in my signature for the Hidden OBC Menu, you need to check what side of your tank is actually having problems.

You probably have to pull your pump regardless and it is not too hard, so suggest you plan on checking the float to make sure it is not bent or hanging on something. Make sure you have 1/2 tank of fuel or less of you plan on pulling your pump again.

Also your starting problem is not likely your fuel pump, but a typical cold climate start problem. Suggest you see the first link below in my signature. Suggest you look closely at the DISA, CCV hoses, CCV lower oil return line and SAP vacuum hoses.
But I never had this cold start problem before with the old fuel pump. It started happening right after I changed the fuel pump, fuel filter and relay.
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Old 10-14-2012, 05:27 AM   #331
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You are convinced you have a bad fuel pump, so it does not really matter what I say!

Suggest you read the first link below in my signature, I would bet you have at least a few of the issues listed in my first link, every other E46 owner does.
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Solve your misfires, lean codes, rough idle - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=897616

Fuel pump failures - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=929501

Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temps, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose fan switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299
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Old 10-15-2012, 10:01 PM   #332
xxilikericexx
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Sorry if I missed it but whats the reason for replacing the fuel pump relay? Is there reason at all if the relay is fine?

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Old 10-15-2012, 11:00 PM   #333
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Because the pump goes at regular intervals, some associate the relay with the replacement. But not many relays failed on this board compared to pumps. So keep your relay. Anyway can always swap with horn relay to not get stranded somewhere.
Unless you blow your horn so much that you wore that out too.
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Old 10-16-2012, 08:53 AM   #334
xxilikericexx
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Originally Posted by Stinger9 View Post
Because the pump goes at regular intervals, some associate the relay with the replacement. But not many relays failed on this board compared to pumps. So keep your relay. Anyway can always swap with horn relay to not get stranded somewhere.
Unless you blow your horn so much that you wore that out too.
Thanks for the info. Is it normal for the fuel pumps to have a preety noticeable buzzing sound from outside the rear passenger side? I assume its louder on that side because thats where its located.
The old and replacement sound the same. Thought with the new one it would quiet down. With my e36, its not as pronounced as it is on the e46.

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Old 10-16-2012, 11:52 AM   #335
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No, No, No!
There are always two or more schools of thought when it comes to issues like these. A better service to members would be a poll to illustrate experience with these items rather than the sky is failling, replace everything now approach!
My experience:
Fuel pump - 10 years 160K, relay still Ok at 175K
Battery same. Alternator suffered a bearing failure at approx 120K
Cooling system - original tank, hoses and radiator still in at 175K
- water pump replaced when it actually started leaking at 114K

As you can see, if I had gone into panic mode at 60K, I would have spent a whole lot of money for nothing. The only thing on the above list to be changed regularly is the fuel filter. So, for a commuter like mine the experience may be totally different from a ham fisted tire burning drifter.
thank you for your perspective. i actually agree more with you than the JFOJ and e46mango types. my zhp is very solid, on the original fuel pump, battery, alternator, and cooling system. today, i preventatively replaced my cooling system largely because of a broken thermostat. i figure while i'm taking out the thermostat, it's probably a good idea to replace the radiator, hoses, water pump, and the other misc belts, pullies, etc. in the system.

but, my car has 90k miles. and it's a late 2004 build. so, i got an extra 30k miles, and a few years out of my cooling system before i went in about $400 for parts.


i'm not touching my fuel system (save the filter) until i start to notice the symptoms of an aging fuel system. i'll replace the pump and relay once i notice any "out of the ordinary" symptoms.

if i replaced my fuel pump, relay, battery, alternator, or any other parts that people cry wolf over, i might waste unnecessary money and replace fully functioning parts.


i might not have my zhp in a year; why go through all the spending, labor, and trouble fixing things that aren't broken?

i do agree that preventative maintenance is a good idea. obsessive, needless maintenance, on the other hand, well......
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Old 10-16-2012, 11:53 AM   #336
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Hardly ever heard my original or replacement.
Guess I'm not the best guy to ask.
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Old 10-16-2012, 11:59 AM   #337
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I found it more the connivence of not having my car die on me and leave me stranded if anything.
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Old 10-16-2012, 12:04 PM   #338
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I found it more the connivence of not having my car die on me and leave me stranded if anything.
but your car is 13 years old almost. and you have close to 150k miles.


when did you replace your fuel pump?
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Old 10-16-2012, 03:52 PM   #339
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bryce-o

I think you should completely keep the decision personal to replace your fuel pump prophylactically instead of waiting for it to fail on its own. It all depends if you don't worry about an increased chance of having the pump fail unexpectedly. And it might never come to pass for you!
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Old 10-16-2012, 06:57 PM   #340
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Got the parts today. Btw, the OEM fuel relay is made by Tyco Electronics, not CRP



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