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View Poll Results: Which Bullet will hit the ground first?
The bullet in his hand 31 28.70%
The bullet fired from the gun 4 3.70%
Both at the same time 70 64.81%
No idea. Stupid bloody question 3 2.78%
Voters: 108. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-05-2012, 06:26 PM   #41
gueste46
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Originally Posted by trippinbillies4 View Post
360' for a bullet to drop when fired out of a gun? What the hell are they shooting? I haven't watched the full episode, but that has to be an extremely light load in that cartridge. A typical .45 will travel WAY farther than 360' when shot perfectly level.
And it will fall at the same rate. Gravity. Go figure.

Last edited by gueste46; 07-05-2012 at 06:34 PM.
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Old 07-05-2012, 06:30 PM   #42
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I did say in the original post that this was not a trick question because, as always a few try to read too much into a simply question.

My thanks to Cowmoo for the math.

Last edited by gueste46; 07-05-2012 at 06:53 PM.
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Old 07-05-2012, 06:41 PM   #43
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I did say in the original post that this was not a trick question because, as always a few try to read too much into a simply question.

My thanks to Cowpoo for the math.
But Cowmoo admitted that he was wrong.
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Old 07-05-2012, 06:57 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by trippinbillies4 View Post
360' for a bullet to drop when fired out of a gun? What the hell are they shooting? I haven't watched the full episode, but that has to be an extremely light load in that cartridge. A typical .45 will travel WAY farther than 360' when shot perfectly level.
From typical eye height, it's probably more like 500 feet. Keep in mind that if the sights are aimed perfectly horizontal, the bullet actually travels upwards before it starts falling. The sights are accurate at two points in the bullet's path: once on the way up and once on the way down.
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Old 07-05-2012, 06:57 PM   #45
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But Cowmoo admitted that he was wrong.
You really need to read things more carefully and more fully and then think about what you have read.
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Old 07-05-2012, 07:02 PM   #46
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You really need to read things more carefully and more fully and then think about what you have read.
Explain.

You said "A couple of people read too much into the question, talking about the earth's curvature and so on. A bullet fired from a handgun does not travel fast enough nor far enough to make this a factor."

So are you saying that the bullet has to travel a certain speed or distance before this suddenly becomes a factor - like flicking a light switch? Or are you saying that the bullets hit at different times, but since it's so close we can pretend its the same?
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Old 07-05-2012, 07:03 PM   #47
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question. is the gun loaded?
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Old 07-05-2012, 07:04 PM   #48
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Explain.

You said "A couple of people read too much into the question, talking about the earth's curvature and so on. A bullet fired from a handgun does not travel fast enough nor far enough to make this a factor."

So are you saying that the bullet has to travel a certain speed or distance before this suddenly becomes a factor - like flicking a light switch? Or are you saying that the bullets hit at different times, but since it's so close we can pretend its the same?
Cowmoo has fully answered this. And as he is far more familiar with this material than I am, and probably quite a bit smarter than me, his answers are way better than any I could offer. If you do not understand his answers, then that is a different matter.

Last edited by gueste46; 07-05-2012 at 07:07 PM.
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Old 07-05-2012, 07:05 PM   #49
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question. is the gun loaded?
Now, that is a good question
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Old 07-05-2012, 07:05 PM   #50
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Cowmoo has fully answered this.
I'm asking you.
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Old 07-05-2012, 07:11 PM   #51
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Cowmoo has fully answered this. And as he is far more familiar with this material than I am, and probably quite a bit smarter than me, his answers are way better than any I could offer. If you do not understand his answers, then that is a different matter.
Re: your longer response:

How could they possibly hit at the same time if one bullet has a farther distance to fall than the other?

I want to hear your answer - because I think Cowmoo admitted that the moving object has a farther distance to fall. I also want to hear your explanation about how I've misunderstood Cowmoo's answer.
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Old 07-05-2012, 07:13 PM   #52
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I'm asking you.
You are wasting your time asking me. This was a simple question I read somewhere. I do not have the math to prove it or disprove it. I depend on people like Cowmoo to do that.

Go do some research of your own for the answer if you don't want to believe me or others here.
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Old 07-05-2012, 07:18 PM   #53
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I will explain this however. When I said it is a simple question I was trying to discourage answers that talked about Earth curvature, air pressure, centrifigal force, coriolis effects etc.

The question simply shows that a bullet fired horizontally to the ground falls at the rame rate as a bullet dropped from the same height. Only math or an experiment can prove it or disprove it.

What more can I say about this?
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Old 07-05-2012, 07:31 PM   #54
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I will explain this however. When I said it is a simple question I was trying to discourage answers that talked about Earth curvature, air pressure, centrifigal force, coriolis effects etc.

The question simply shows that a bullet fired horizontally to the ground falls at the rame rate as a bullet dropped from the same height. Only math or an experiment can prove it or disprove it.

What more can I say about this?
So your answer depends on us assuming that you meant that the experiment is conducted on a flat earth? This is the first time you've said that. And then you tell me I'm wrong when I give an answer that applies to the real world, rather than your unspoken fantasy land?

edit: oh, and I just noticed that your previous answer specifically contemplated a round earth, when you said. "A bullet fired from a handgun does not travel fast enough nor far enough to make this a factor."

So for the record - what is your final answer on this subject, assuming a round earth?

Last edited by brew; 07-05-2012 at 07:41 PM.
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Old 07-05-2012, 07:39 PM   #55
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Cowmoo is correct, The same time

College Physics I Explanation:

Because we don't care about the x-axis we focus on only the forces in the y-direction. If you break down newton's second law and combine vertical forces acting on each bullet there are two forces acting on the dropped bullet: weight (m*g) and air resistance. The fired bullet's forces on the y-axis: weight and vertical air resistance. There is air resistance in the horizontal direction as well but we can ignore it. Mass of both bullets are the same, air resistance on the same object in the Y-direction is the same, and obviously gravity is the same. Answer: Same time

Quick, easy, and IMO accurate explanation. I will draw up a picture with equations later tonight if I get bored.
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Old 07-05-2012, 07:49 PM   #56
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So your answer depends on us assuming that you meant that the experiment is conducted on a flat earth? This is the first time you've said that. And then you tell me I'm wrong when I give an answer that applies to the real world, rather than your unspoken fantasy land?

edit: oh, and I just noticed that your previous answer specifically contemplated a round earth, when you said. "A bullet fired from a handgun does not travel fast enough nor far enough to make this a factor."

So for the record - what is your final answer on this subject, assuming a round earth?
Assuming a round earth but a perfectly flat, level, horizontal piece of land the length of the bullet's flight (like a football pitch) they will hit the earth at the same time.

The smart ones KNEW exactly what the question was, did not throw in complicating factors and answered it directly and correctly.

I said it was not a trick question. You just need to be smart enough to understand the point of the question.

Last edited by gueste46; 07-05-2012 at 07:51 PM.
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Old 07-05-2012, 08:32 PM   #57
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Assuming a round earth but a perfectly flat, level, horizontal piece of land the length of the bullet's flight (like a football pitch) they will hit the earth at the same time.

The smart ones KNEW exactly what the question was, did not throw in complicating factors and answered it directly and correctly.

I said it was not a trick question. You just need to be smart enough to understand the point of the question.
You're still wrong.

In your "perfectly flat, horizontal piece of land" scenario, the only way that your answer is correct is if the land is parallel to the horizontal plane of the bullet's initial path at the point of firing. This means that the land is perpendicular to the axis of the earth at the point of firing. At the point where the bullet lands, however, the land is slightly out of perpendicular to the axis. The ground has gained altitude from sea level at that point. This means that the horizontal piece of land is technically an upwards slope.

I'm sorry I did not assume that you meant that the bullet was being shot across an upwardly sloping stretch of land. How dumb of me.

You initially said that at lower speeds and distances curvature does not come into play. Now you're saying that we're supposed to assume that we are shooting across an upward slope of land. You keep changing the circumstances of the experiment to make the results fit your expectation.

That's flat out bad science.

I think what's really happening is that you are repeating some experiment that you loosely recall being mentioned in high school and you forgot the part about how the experiment must be conducted in a hypothetical universe in order to work. You remember the answer from school, but not the circumstances that would make it true. You're now too stubborn to admit that your answer is wrong on planet earth. And rather than actually consider alternative explanations or answers, you simply label the people that gave you the answer you were looking for as "smart" and anyone that disagrees with you as "dumb"

Last edited by brew; 07-05-2012 at 08:34 PM.
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Old 07-05-2012, 08:44 PM   #58
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You're still wrong.

In your "perfectly flat, horizontal piece of land" scenario, the only way that your answer is correct is if the land is parallel to the horizontal plane of the bullet's initial path at the point of firing. This means that the land is perpendicular to the axis of the earth at the point of firing. At the point where the bullet lands, however, the land is slightly out of perpendicular to the axis. The ground has gained altitude from sea level at that point. This means that the horizontal piece of land is technically an upwards slope.

I'm sorry I did not assume that you meant that the bullet was being shot across an upwardly sloping stretch of land. How dumb of me.

You initially said that at lower speeds and distances curvature does not come into play. Now you're saying that we're supposed to assume that we are shooting across an upward slope of land. You keep changing the circumstances of the experiment to make the results fit your expectation.

That's flat out bad science.

I think what's really happening is that you are repeating some experiment that you loosely recall being mentioned in high school and you forgot the part about how the experiment must be conducted in a hypothetical universe in order to work. You remember the answer from school, but not the circumstances that would make it true. You're now too stubborn to admit that your answer is wrong on planet earth. And rather than actually consider alternative explanations or answers, you simply label the people that gave you the answer you were looking for as "smart" and anyone that disagrees with you as "dumb"
Wow.

Dude, you are trying to prove me wrong with flawed logic. Maths don't lie. Go argue with Cowmoo. Go argue with Newton.

Cowmoo addressed the issue of curvature. Go back and read all the posts.

It does not ring any alarm bells that you are the only one with this view? Forget about me. Address your arguements to all those others that agree with my answer.

Maybe I am a dope and have no idea what I am talking about. But there seem to be a lot of people that agree with the answer that both bullets hit the ground at the same time. Get their views.

I have never seen a guy who totally misses the essential point like you have.
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Old 07-05-2012, 08:56 PM   #59
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Wow.

Dude, you are trying to prove me wrong with flawed logic. Maths don't lie. Go argue with Cowmoo.
Oh, I do. The difference is that he and I can have a debate that doesn't turn into calling each other dumb when we don't get our way.

Quote:
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Go argue with Newton.
Why? When did Newton ever say that a bullet fired horizontally on earth will hit the ground at the same time as a bullet dropped?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Constantine View Post
Cowmoo addressed the issue of curvature. Go back and read all the posts.
I did. I liked the part where he said "I was wrong." I'm 95% sure that he now agrees with my position.

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Originally Posted by Constantine View Post

It does not ring any alarm bells that you are the only one with this view?
But I'm not - I think it was 25% of poll takers said the dropped bullet hits first.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Constantine View Post

Forget about me. Address your arguements to all those others that agree with my answer.

Maybe I am a dope and have no idea what I am talking about.
Occam's razor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Constantine View Post

But there seem to be a lot of people that agree with the answer that both bullets hit the ground at the same time. Get their views.

I have never seen a guy who totally misses the essential point like you have.
And I've never seen anyone who kept changing the rules so much to get the answer he's looking for.
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Old 07-05-2012, 09:10 PM   #60
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Oh, I do. The difference is that he and I can have a debate that doesn't turn into calling each other dumb when we don't get our way.



Why? When did Newton ever say that a bullet fired horizontally on earth will hit the ground at the same time as a bullet dropped?




I did. I liked the part where he said "I was wrong." I'm 95% sure that he now agrees with my position.



But I'm not - I think it was 25% of poll takers said the dropped bullet hits first.


Occam's razor.


And I've never seen anyone who kept changing the rules so much to get the answer he's looking for.
You win. I am wrong. My answer is wrong. I am rude and totally was messing with your head. I was personally abusive. My question was poorly phrased and misleading. I have no idea what Newton has to do with all this and withdraw that comment.

I apologise for any offence I may have caused.
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