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General E46 Forum
This is the place to get answers, opinions and everything you need related to your E46 (sedan, coupe, convertible and wagon) BMW!

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Old 07-13-2012, 05:23 PM   #61
avincent52
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I can understand the strong feelings about insurance companies, but let's also remember that NOVA is one of us, and these larger issues about how insurance companies set their policies are settled above everyone's pay grade.

FWIW, CCC, the company my insurance company used, gave me a 32-page report with 16 "comparable" vehicles.
Only one of them was a wagon. Most were 325 sedans with automatics which cost more than $2000 less when new, and are much more plentiful on the used market. I politely sent them back a list of seven more comparable wagons, each of which had a higher price.
I await their response.

If the car had been a 2008 Camry, their method would have been fine. But their program is designed to favor geography (local dealers) over an exact match.
Most people wouldn't think about about traveling cross-country to replace a seven-year old car. But most people are not E46 Fanatics (Touring Division)

Seaspeed: I don't have anywhere near enough scratch to order an e91. I think I heard that the F31s will be available in the US with a six-speed, but that's academic anyway.
Punting the money to my wife so she can replace her POS minivan with something like a Honda Pilot or a Mazda 5, and getting Richard Sachs to build me a bicycle, is looking better all the time.

Last edited by avincent52; 07-13-2012 at 05:24 PM.
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Old 07-13-2012, 05:33 PM   #62
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I will say that CCC can come back with poor values. But with 16 comps, they're going to be pretty good. And they're paying for your car in your locale, that's why it favors geography so much.

This is where cars.com and nadaguides.com are your friends.

And a manual will return a lower value 99% of the time because it costs more to get an automatic as an option than it does a manual.
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Old 07-13-2012, 05:48 PM   #63
mtnbound
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avincent52 View Post
I can understand the strong feelings about insurance companies, but let's also remember that NOVA is one of us, and these larger issues about how insurance companies set their policies are settled above everyone's pay grade.

FWIW, CCC, the company my insurance company used, gave me a 32-page report with 16 "comparable" vehicles.
Only one of them was a wagon. Most were 325 sedans with automatics which cost more than $2000 less when new, and are much more plentiful on the used market. I politely sent them back a list of seven more comparable wagons, each of which had a higher price.
I await their response.

If the car had been a 2008 Camry, their method would have been fine. But their program is designed to favor geography (local dealers) over an exact match.
Most people wouldn't think about about traveling cross-country to replace a seven-year old car. But most people are not E46 Fanatics (Touring Division)

Seaspeed: I don't have anywhere near enough scratch to order an e91. I think I heard that the F31s will be available in the US with a six-speed, but that's academic anyway.
Punting the money to my wife so she can replace her POS minivan with something like a Honda Pilot or a Mazda 5, and getting Richard Sachs to build me a bicycle, is looking better all the time.
Ouch, that sucks to hear. Not sure if it's worth your while, but you may want to try and grab the floormats, toolkit, manual, etc - things that will add up for a bit extra dough.

Well, if there's any chance you're able to snag the cargo/roller shade (and it's in good shape), I'd give you a few bucks for it as I've been debating a replacement for mine.
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Old 07-13-2012, 06:01 PM   #64
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That's just so sad to read.
I would try to squeeze as much cash out of the insurance company as possible while keeping the car. Drive a beater for some time and save up for fixing the wagon.
I wouldn't worry about the salvage title if you want to keep the car forever.

The other option is finding another one (which will be hard). I wouldn't worry about the sport package too much. You can always upgrade your suspension, steering wheel and seats.
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Old 07-13-2012, 06:03 PM   #65
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Collect your check and this time look for a 330it
330iT was never imported to North America. But that shouldn't stop you from making your own
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Old 07-13-2012, 07:08 PM   #66
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1. Actually, if anyone ever took the time to read their insurance policy (a contract), they'd realize that their collision/comp covers up to the ACV of their vehicle, which depreciates quickly. He would have never had a policy for an explicit $65k on his car. Unless you have an agreed value policy, which the company I worked for never offered, at least in Virginia.

Would you pay new price for a used car, regardless of how well it's maintained? If so, come buy my 330i, I'd love to get rid of it, hell, I'll even give you a deal and sell for $35k.

2. I wish someone had told me we didn't care about long-time customers. I would have treated them a lot more like they treated me a long time ago. But no, I got to bend over backwards for everyone that claimed they had been a policyholder for more than a day, as well as claimants, and even the policyholders that hadn't had their policies for more than a day.

Hell, we were encouraged to actively commit fraud in favor of the customer on a regular basis to keep people happy. Even claimants with no financial ties to the company. All in the name of providing excellent service.
Don't miss the forest for the tree.

The point is... I buy a brand new car. I go buy insurance. They tell me premium is $X. I ask why. They say "because if you were to total it tomorrow, it will cost us $45K to replace. (Yes, I have the same car you have)
But a year later, it doesn't cost $45K to replace.
And by the 3rd year, chances are it will cost only half of that to replace.
I stayed with that company for 7 years. I eventually sold that car for $8K. But my premium was more than $X.
They should have done A LOT more to keep a loyal customer who payed premiums for 7 years without making claims.
Yes they could afford to lower my premium. The next company I switched to could, without knowing me and the risks, why wouldn't the first one which had already received payments for 7 years?
That's what I mean by they don't care.
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Old 07-14-2012, 09:06 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by NOVAbimmer View Post
I will say that CCC can come back with poor values. But with 16 comps, they're going to be pretty good. And they're paying for your car in your locale, that's why it favors geography so much.

This is where cars.com and nadaguides.com are your friends.

And a manual will return a lower value 99% of the time because it costs more to get an automatic as an option than it does a manual.
Again, thanks for the help.

I sent them a nice letter yesterday noted that the adjuster missed some options and suggested that my car was well above "average" condition, given that it was a CPO and was dealer serviced for most of its life.

As far as comps go, I'm not harping on the "5 speed premium" because 5 speed wagons are so hard to come by that it's impossible to make a solid case.

But there does seem to be a real-world premium on the price of the wagon. The one wagon they included among the 16 comps was one of the highest priced, even though it was less well equipped and had higher mileage.

FWIW, I'm taking your advice and trying to be friendly and helpful with the claim rep (who didn't have anything to do with the CCC report or the adjuster's analysis of the car's condition.)
She seemed focused on getting the car out of the tow yard (the storage was $15 a day) so I made a special effort to get down there and clean the stuff out of the car.
Hopefully, being polite and reasonable with the people, but thorough and persistent about the documents and the process, will result in me getting a little closer to having the money to buy a decent touring.

Last edited by avincent52; 07-14-2012 at 09:07 AM.
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Old 07-14-2012, 09:33 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by avincent52 View Post

Seaspeed: I don't have anywhere near enough scratch to order an e91. I think I heard that the F31s will be available in the US with a six-speed, but that's academic anyway.
Punting the money to my wife so she can replace her POS minivan with something like a Honda Pilot or a Mazda 5, and getting Richard Sachs to build me a bicycle, is looking better all the time.
It's interesting how wagonistas are willing to pay a premium for used cars but loathe to buy them new. Hence they are always in short supply, or no supply.
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Old 07-14-2012, 09:33 AM   #69
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BTW, here's the last "before" pic of my beloved 325iT.
The kayak on the roof is a birthday present for my wife.
Funny, my dog will probably miss the car more than anyone.
She would stand on the console like the figurehead on a ship, trying to stick her nose out the sunroof.
I'm glad I resisted the impulse to bring her last Saturday or this would be much much sadder.
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Old 07-14-2012, 09:39 AM   #70
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It's interesting how wagonistas are willing to pay a premium for used cars but loathe to buy them new. Hence they are always in short supply, or no supply.
I can only speak for myself, but I owned an Audi A4 with a five speed, which I leased new.
Funny, but two neighbors each had one too, a cream one and a bright red one.
And one of them still has an A3.

My e46 iT was a dealer demo or something so I was the first citizen owner.
And again, a guy down the block has one. We used to joke about drag racing for pink slips.

If I had a gun to my head and a blank check, I'd buy an E91 wagon with a five speed and the sports package.

As far as I'm concerned, I think an SUV is just a sport wagon that got fat.
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Old 07-16-2012, 01:13 PM   #71
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It's now down to strategy with my insurance company.
They asked me to tell them what I want for the car, and I need some advice.

Their initial offer was $12K based on a CCC valuation in which 15 of the 16 comps were sedans.
My own valuation, came up with six low-mileage wagons across the country. The average of these is $16,700

Obviously, that's a pretty big gap.

Does it make sense for me to come in with a number closer those average comps ($16K +) hoping for a reasonable counter offer.
Or should I come in with something that's closer to their original number (say a little less than $15K, hoping that they'll accept my number.)

thanks again and if you happen to find a clean E46 wagon with a 5 speed, please let me know.

(FWIW, I found an E91 wagon, white with a tan interior, parked right across from my rental car this weekend. The car gods are teasing me.)
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Old 07-16-2012, 01:57 PM   #72
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So they calculated you an offer based on sedan pricing? I'm guessing the only reason they would do this is down to the rarity of E46 wagons. Make a counter offer based on your findings and present them your research, thats the best way to go about this IMO. Show them how you came up the numbers you got, and they might be a little more likely to budge on the offer a bit. Good Luck, maybe if your lucky you'll get an E91 out of the deal. Then all of this would seem worth while...
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Old 07-16-2012, 03:15 PM   #73
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That's a positive update.. I would stick to the strategy of using the wagon comps to back your claim, and continue to stay firm (but polite) on the number you presented. Obviously, using sedan comps for wagon pricing is not fair by any means, and I think you have a good case there... Stick to your guns and stay courteous and you'll probably end up close to your original number.. If they do come back with something far less, you can always try to counter their counter-offer at that stage.. Or elevate it to a manager within the insurance company at that stage..
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Old 07-16-2012, 10:16 PM   #74
avincent52
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Good Luck, maybe if your lucky you'll get an E91 out of the deal. Then all of this would seem worth while...
I really appreciate everyone's input here. But where exactly are you guys doing your car shopping. I poked around a little, and the only e91 wagons I found are like $25,000-$30,000, with a few pushing $40k, which is way more than double what I could ever expect to get from the insurance settlement.
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Old 07-16-2012, 10:18 PM   #75
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E90 323i are going for low 10K. Good visual upgrade for cheap price.
Not a wagon though
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Old 07-16-2012, 11:00 PM   #76
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When someone hit me and their insurance company declared my car a total loss my insurance company sent an appraiser to value my car. This really helped me explain why the "comparable" cars were of lesser value. Maybe your company can help you raise the amount offered.

In a different incident I took the check and turned a 2002 330Ci into another 2002 330Ci. The replacement was identical except it had 30,000 less miles and has the premium package.

I know your car is much more rare, but I do not regret my five month long search for a replacement. Hang in there and don't give up.
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Old 07-16-2012, 11:50 PM   #77
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323iT, manual, sport package, 88k miles:

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/cto/3133386594.html

325iT, auto, sport package(?), 138k miles:

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/cto/3143031432.html

325iT, auto, sport package, 105k miles:

http://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst...138821614.html
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Old 07-17-2012, 09:33 AM   #78
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Originally Posted by avincent52 View Post
Does it make sense for me to come in with a number closer those average comps ($16K +) hoping for a reasonable counter offer.
Or should I come in with something that's closer to their original number (say a little less than $15K, hoping that they'll accept my number.)
Come in with a number that makes sense, with the comps to back it up. Don't adjust up or down for "strategy". You can't get what you don't ask for!!! Don't just assume they are trying to screw you over. It's just people doing their jobs who have no clue about your personal situation. It pays to remember a few things when dealing with situations like this:

1. You have a lot of information and experience about your own reality than they do, so communicate it to them.
2. Assume that they are a good person wanting to give you a fair deal, because most people are. Especially if it's a corporate entity's money that they are giving you, and not their own.
3. You probably already know this but be corteous no matter how bad it gets or how bad you feel insulted because you don't know the other person's reality either.

Good luck. I have a feeling this will turn out really well for some reason.
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Old 07-17-2012, 03:21 PM   #79
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Thanks Schlag. Good advice. I have to say that advice like yours and especially NOVA's have adjusted my attitude on this. I'm pretty frustrated by the situation and it's good to be reminded that the nice lady from the insurance company isn't to blame.
I'm feeling moderately optimistic about the insurance company, less so about finding a 5 speed BMW wagon I'll be happy with.
I guess a Honda Pilot, a bicycle, and a happy wife is a decent trade, I guess.

Merc: FWIW, I think the 323 is a Canada only model.
There seems to be a huge price jump between an e46 and an e90/91
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Old 07-17-2012, 06:50 PM   #80
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Merc: FWIW, I think the 323 is a Canada only model.
There seems to be a huge price jump between an e46 and an e90/91
323 was available in the US as '99-00 model but had the m52 engine with slightly less power and cable accelerator.
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