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Old 05-09-2015, 10:38 AM   #1
Oz Striker
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F30 M Sport 4 pot Brembo Brake Project

So my front discs and pads are waaay overdue a change and so i had my eyes open for various big brake options. I had a look at the 6 piston BMW performance brakes, but long story short, total surface front piston area is less the stock OEM so i discounted it. I then came across a set of used front and rear F30 Brembo 4 pot calipers (2 pot rear) with discs (340mm) and pads for a reasonable price and bit the bullet, worst case scenario i sell them on.

So here goes, lets start with the good news:

The calipers themselves bolt directly on to the the hub/caliper carrier, and clear the inner spokes of MV1's with a 15mm spacer and i also think a 12.5, but will have to check, but definitely not a 10mm.:







Bad news as follows:

The 340mm front discs from the F30 have a much bigger hat height, hence they cannot fit on the the E46 hub. The E46 has a hat height of 52.5mm and the F30 is 73mm:





I cannot place a spacer behind the disc, and in front of the hub, as then there would not be much of a hub lip for the wheel to rest on. Its not so obvious in this pic, but the back of the disc hits the dust shield, but even if this was removed there is a lower suspension knuckle that would make contact with the disc.



Next is rotor alignment, the disc is not centred in the caliper, the caliper sits further out than is ideal, this would result in uneven brake wear more than is acceptable. However this could be rectified with a brake shim behind the outboard pad, approx 3mm but I'll check this in time.





Since the 340mm F30 discs cant be fitted, then E46 M3 CSL disc could potentially work, at 345mm they are 20mm larger than stock 330i, and so 10mm larger radius, it would be tight but possible:





I'm not aware of any other BMW disc thought would be suitable, ie diameter 330-340mm, with a hat height of 52.5mm. I'll be purchasing a M3 CSL disc in the coming weeks to check fitment & clearances, and keep this thread updated.
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Old 05-09-2015, 10:54 AM   #2
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Damn, kudos to you for trying to get F30 rotors to fit. Very nice man but sucks that the rotors don't work out. What about the calipers and the stock E46 rotors?
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Old 05-11-2015, 02:41 PM   #3
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Awesome project! Can't wait to see where this goes. Nice job so far.
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Old 05-11-2015, 05:09 PM   #4
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This looks very promising, i hope this works.
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Old 05-19-2015, 07:06 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Solidjake View Post
What about the calipers and the stock E46 rotors?
Stock 330 rotors are 25mm thick, the calipers on an F30 has 30mm discs, so stock 330 rotors probably wont be ideal, unless you use a lot of brake shims. E46 M3 front discs are 28mm so should be ok from a thickness point of view.

More Pics:

330 and and F30 brembo pad






So my E46 CSL disc (345mm) arrived, and its a little odd, i dont think the swept area is any larger than stock M3 (325mm)......


I'll do a test fit of both CSL and stock M3 discs over the next week or so and see whats what. If stock M3 discs are what works best, then the outer/rear edge of the brake pads will require a slight shave, to prevent the 2 pads from touching as they wear down, as they will overhang the disc as is.

Also got my 1.2mm thick stainless steel sheet, so will be cutting out brake shims to solve the rotor not being centred within the caliper.
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Old 05-20-2015, 09:21 AM   #6
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you the man
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Old 05-25-2015, 05:56 PM   #7
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I got round to trying various options, the F30 rotors again, E46 M3, and E46 M3 CSL. So lets start with F30 340x30mm rotors, which with a 73mm hat height wont fit the E46 hub, but i had a look around on other forums (M3forum.net) and there is the possibility of putting a hub centric spacer behind the rotor instead of in front of it. But this wouldn't be any off the shelf spacer, it would need a longer lip so that the wheel has something to rest on and also a screw thread cut into the surface of the spacer for the rotor retaining screw.

Any custom spacer would need a lip length of approx 20mm







And also the rear of the spacer would need to be machined, just like back of the rotor, to fit & mate with the hub properly. Yes these aren't precise measurements, but the first pic shows the lip hub diameter (E46 bore), but the 2nd pic shows the approx diameter of the hub at its base (i had to move the micrometer away in order to take the pic)











With 18mm of spacer behind the rotor the back of the rotor just touches the front of the dust shield. This i easily bent forward without causing any other issues. With 20mm of spacer it clears the dust shield, but then some folks may have wheel offset issues.






The bend is actually very slight, but the angle of the picture makes it look like a lot







Best news with using the F30 disc is that the pad from a front + back position is spot on:



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Old 05-25-2015, 06:15 PM   #8
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Next up is the E46 M3 disc 325x28mm:

The pads easily clear the rotor hat:




But on the outer edge as suspected, approx 8-10mm of pad material is visible, this could be shaved down. (330i discs 325x25mm would have a similar fit but disc thickness at 25mm may be an issue)




Next up is E46 CSL disc 345x28mm. Outer edge is perfect, but the CSL rotor diameter is larger simply due to the rotor hat being larger, on the inner edge the pad material makes contact with the rotor hat, again the pad would need to be shaved down.





If i was going for one of these options, i would choose the CSL discs. Firstly the CSL discs here in the UK are only about $15 more expensive than standard M3 discs. Secondly although the swept area is the same between M3 and CSL discs, the larger disc will dissipate heat better.

But seeing as i already have the F30 discs i think I'm going to go for the custom spacer option, which will cost me about 100, whereas 2 CSL discs will cost 300.
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Old 06-02-2015, 02:01 PM   #9
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Interesting nice it bolts up! Did you try the rear out yet?
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Old 10-15-2015, 12:50 PM   #10
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Well i've had a busy summer, with little chance to work on this, apart from searching around for brake discs that may work better. There are some Audi TTRS/VW R32 discs (340x30mm) that would have required simply a PCD & centre bore alteration, rotar hat height was only 3mm out, but favourable in that it will actually help in centreing the disc within the caliper. However the actual swept surface may be a few mm less than required.

Then there is the VW transporter T5 van, yes van (340x32mm). These have the same PCD, but need the CB enlarged by 3mm. Rotor hat height is also 3mm out, but it is unfavourable in terms of centring the disc in the caliper, meaning a spacer would need to be placed behind the rotor. The swept surface may be bang on, or a about 1-2mm to large, no big deal. Oh and the pads would need rubbed down 2mm to fit.

So overall the TT discs would be better, and a pair still work out cheaper than CSL or M3 discs here in th UK.

Things are a little complicated by the fact that the brembo online catlogue, doesnt list the schematics for F30 340mm discs or pads, so I'm comparing my own measurements of worn items with the Brembo's, VW & Audi schematics.

So then just as i was ready to get back into things, and get my hands on the above discs, i broke my collar bone 2 weeks ago..... whilst attempting to change my gearbox oil, diff oil and various other under car stuff..... was a lucky escape

But rest assured, I'm gonna get the TTRS discs posted out to me, get my sis to fish out the F30 discs and pads out of the garden shed and see how things mate up! Will report back soon ie a couple of weeks as i get my collar bone plated tomorrow.... joy!

Audi TTRS brake schematics: link

VW T5 Transporter brake schematics link

E46 schematics link
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Old 10-15-2015, 12:53 PM   #11
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Interesting nice it bolts up! Did you try the rear out yet?
Sorry never got a chance to start work on the rears, maybe after christmas
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Old 12-26-2015, 03:43 PM   #12
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So i bought a Audi TTRS disc but the inner diameter of the disc was too small for the E46 hub, by a about 2mm. The VW T5 van would require an approx 7mm spacer behind the disc, so this would necessitate the need for Turners hub lip extenders. In both cases the Centre bore and PCD could be amended by a brake shop.



So i bought a E46 hub (18) to experiment with as well as a set of used but good condition M3 discs (70):




These next pictures show that the M3 rotor sit a little too far inboard ie it's rotor hat height is 1mm to large. So in effect the perfect rotor for the E46 and F30 callipers would have a hat height of 48mm. (Outside is on the left, and inside is on the right)






















You could use a washer to space the calliper out by 1 mm, this would centre the disc in the caliper. But this is not required as the M3 disc is 2mm thinner than the F30 disc (28 vs 30mm), so disc centring isn't crucial and would only be required if you were to use a 30mm disc.






Some additional pics and deductions:







And I started the install today of the M3 discs today, except I got to removing the brake hose and realised i didn't have a 11mm flare wrench. Tried with a standard spanner, but the damn coupler wouldn't budge!

So hopefully next day or 2 and should be installed
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Old 12-26-2015, 03:51 PM   #13
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Below is a basic schematic diagram of the F30 Brake disc and what an ideal brake disc for the E46 would be like. I came up with this as i got emailing a few small brake manufacturing companies in the UK, and I'm hopeful one of them may be able to make alterations to an existing OEM disc that is close eg the VW T5.
(Its the clearance I.D. that is too small by 2mm on the TTRS disc. Other possibilities whilst viewing brembos brake catalogue came close from Merc and Citroen, but the internal disc diameter again was too small or the swept area was too small)









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Old 01-07-2016, 10:27 AM   #14
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What's about Mercedes C32 discs? A litte bit of machining on the center bore and new stud bolt bores...
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Old 01-08-2016, 01:36 PM   #15
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hello...
my name is lior and i'm from israel.
i sow your project and like a month befor i came across M135i caliper set, so bought it and try to figure myself what disc to put....

my car is E46 318i 2005 that swap to M3 engine, gear and other parts,

so now after this brain dig...

let me tell you what i use:

to the front:
merc clk 500, it's 345X30 drilled disc that fit perfect, all you need is to machining the center bore and drill new 5X120 stud bolt bores
no specer or any dangerous combination.
http://www.bremboaftermarket.com/En/...7-e27ad867d378

to the rear: it's simple as that.... just rear disc from Z4 35i, it's 324X20
the offset is perfect, and center bore and PCD is same of caurse.

the only truble is that the parking brake... the diameter of the inside is littel bit to big, less than 9mm so can be done easy,

pic:
_nr_
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Old 01-08-2016, 04:49 PM   #16
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Haha cool thread. Lots of work and research involved here. Can't wait to see how it turns out.
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Old 01-08-2016, 05:01 PM   #17
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lior, I approved your post. Welcome!
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Old 01-08-2016, 05:07 PM   #18
lior-M3
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hi, thank you...

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Old 01-09-2016, 03:21 AM   #19
Oz Striker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lior-M3 View Post
hello...
my name is lior and i'm from israel.
i sow your project and like a month befor i came across M135i caliper set, so bought it and try to figure myself what disc to put....

my car is E46 318i 2005 that swap to M3 engine, gear and other parts,

so now after this brain dig...

let me tell you what i use:

to the front:
merc clk 500, it's 345X30 drilled disc that fit perfect, all you need is to machining the center bore and drill new 5X120 stud bolt bores
no specer or any dangerous combination.
http://www.bremboaftermarket.com/En/...7-e27ad867d378

to the rear: it's simple as that.... just rear disc from Z4 35i, it's 324X20
the offset is perfect, and center bore and PCD is same of caurse.

the only truble is that the parking brake... the diameter of the inside is littel bit to big, less than 9mm so can be done easy,

pic:
_nr_
Cool to see other people trying this out, nice one

The only issue I saw from the brembo schematic with the Mercedes 345x30 mm disc, is that the swept pad area would be 59mm instead of closer to the ideal of 71-73mm....... (345-227)2......... This would give a 10+ mm of pad overhang beyond the edge of the disc. But let us know how it works out, in reality it may be less and insignificant.

I'm on hold at the moment, my brake pipe to hose couplers/nuts are seized solid.... So waiting on brake pipe flaring tool, to replace both front pipes, will hopefully do a diy on it
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Old 01-09-2016, 03:02 PM   #20
lior-M3
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i admit that i didnt consider the pad area to much, but i take some pic and you can see it's cover all the way



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