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Old 07-14-2016, 09:05 AM   #1
BKMrSteel
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Ordering new lowering springs, Help and Advice

This has been a long time coming, and I seem to be getting nowhere with spring manufactures. Nowhere, as in none of them have even replied to a single email, including Swift.

Problem: So a mistake was made when ordering my spring rates, and I ended up with 10kg/mm front, and 9kg/mm rear. Not going to point fingers, as any time three more point back.

Platform: DGR coilovers, and simple ring/sleeve adjustment in the rear.

Desired outcome: I want to change the rear springs to 12kg/mm

I have been reading about buying springs, although never ordered aftermarket springs, and unsure what I need exactly. If a straight spring coil is acceptable, or is a pigtail end needed for the lower control arm. Who should I order from? What should I be looking for in an aftermarket spring? Found an article on the M3 forum talking about the difference in having 5" or 6" tall rear springs. I'm currently bottoming out my rear adjustment, and not "That low".

Probably going to ask for current spring specs. I can take measurements this weekend. They do look just like any other ring/sleeve rear spring setup I've seen on E46 cars. Please and thank you for any help and advice!
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Old 07-14-2016, 05:05 PM   #2
Rob43
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Looks like a bottom rear spring height adjuster based on the pic I'm looking at, what is the inside spring diameter on the bottom of the spring & what is the outside diameter of the spring adjuster itself where it goes into the spring ?

Also, what is the static height of your current rear springs ?

Choosing a new ~12kg spring that works with your current rear spring adjuster is paramount to saving you money.


EDIT: It's also my opinion that you should consider selling off Both front & rear springs so that you can start over with a "Friendlier" DD/Performance spring rate that you'd enjoy more. In most cases, 560lbs/672lbs is a ROUGH ride for a DD Bimmer.


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Quote:
Originally Posted by RacerX View Post
Nitrous is a little trickier than boost, but it's not the spray that kills motors, it's STUPIDITY!!
I Know How To Fix The Rear "Bouncing" Problem On Your Cheap Coilovers Like: Jom RL FK SE & RK.

Last edited by Rob43; 07-14-2016 at 05:14 PM.
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Old 07-14-2016, 07:21 PM   #3
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Rob, thanks for the reply!

I have debated long and hard about dropping the front rate rather than increase the rear. I do love the mountains, track days, and looking to get into local auto/x events as soon as my leg allows. It is a tad stiff in the front, though I don't mind. Open to suggestions still.

I'll do what I can to get the measurements this weekend, if not next week.

Not that these photos tells you much :p
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Old 07-14-2016, 07:29 PM   #4
Rob43
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The more I think about this & your new comments, I think replacing the front springs with either a 375lbs or 7kg (392lbs) would be a VERY smart move. Figure about ~$150 total for the pair.



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SUMMIT POINT WV 1:24:229 SCCA
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"Chance Favors The Prepared Mind"

I BUILD SUSPENSIONS (Consult) FROM MILD TO WILD FOR RWD & XI E46's
Quote:
Originally Posted by RacerX View Post
Nitrous is a little trickier than boost, but it's not the spray that kills motors, it's STUPIDITY!!
I Know How To Fix The Rear "Bouncing" Problem On Your Cheap Coilovers Like: Jom RL FK SE & RK.
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Old 07-14-2016, 07:37 PM   #5
Rob43
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Assuming you currently have a 6 inch spring currently in the front, these GC springs are probably your go to choice.

GC150.64.66 (6/2.5"/375 lbs), Product SKU #6/375

http://www.ground-control-store.com/.../II=783/CA=214



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SUMMIT POINT WV 1:24:229 SCCA
(DynoDynamics https:vimeo.com/8486878 Dyno Video)
"Chance Favors The Prepared Mind"

I BUILD SUSPENSIONS (Consult) FROM MILD TO WILD FOR RWD & XI E46's
Quote:
Originally Posted by RacerX View Post
Nitrous is a little trickier than boost, but it's not the spray that kills motors, it's STUPIDITY!!
I Know How To Fix The Rear "Bouncing" Problem On Your Cheap Coilovers Like: Jom RL FK SE & RK.
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Old 07-14-2016, 08:13 PM   #6
BKMrSteel
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I'll mall it over this weekend, thanks for the link. Was expecting to spend $75-150, so that's easily within budget. What advantage would be had in dropping the front rate (opposed to increasing the rear), other then a softer ride?

Last edited by BKMrSteel; 07-14-2016 at 08:14 PM.
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Old 07-16-2016, 02:14 PM   #7
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A softer ride.

Remember, it's a DD.... Almost everyone I talk with makes the mistake of going with to Firm a spring rate when choosing springs for a DD Bimmer. The Only time stiff spring rates are good is when you drive on really smooth roads or when it's a Dedicated track car that gets trailer'd to the track.



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SUMMIT POINT WV 1:24:229 SCCA
(DynoDynamics https:vimeo.com/8486878 Dyno Video)
"Chance Favors The Prepared Mind"

I BUILD SUSPENSIONS (Consult) FROM MILD TO WILD FOR RWD & XI E46's
Quote:
Originally Posted by RacerX View Post
Nitrous is a little trickier than boost, but it's not the spray that kills motors, it's STUPIDITY!!
I Know How To Fix The Rear "Bouncing" Problem On Your Cheap Coilovers Like: Jom RL FK SE & RK.
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Old 07-23-2016, 02:44 PM   #8
BKMrSteel
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I still have been unable to get under the car to measure anything. The springs have 155 - 09 stamped, don't have the inside measurement. I'm guessing this is no indication whether it's 60mm or larger. Would be nice to have the springs on hand, could potentially have the shop install them in a couple weeks if I'm still unable.
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Old 07-28-2016, 05:35 PM   #9
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Spring size is inside 75mm, L 155, rate 9kg, and the small end is 50mm

Perch 71mm, with rubber pad 75mm, and the inside adjuster size is on threads is 58mm.

At this point I'm contacting BC to buy new rear adjusters and springs. No response from the supplier who ordered the DGR coilovers for me (he was a re-seller, and pushed them on the M5 forum), and unable to get any response from DGR directly or any of their sellers. This way I can always order the remaining components from BC racing if DGR components fail.

Edit: I just realized I can flip the spring perch over, and use the flat side, or even the other locking part as the perch giving me room for a 60mm spring. I'll contact swift once again, and see what options they have. Rob, I'm always open to your advice, and criticism.

ps. Placed an order with Swift for 5" 12kg 60mm springs.

Last edited by BKMrSteel; 07-28-2016 at 06:21 PM.
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Old 08-16-2016, 12:30 AM   #10
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Have you received or installed your new 12kg rear springs ?



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Rob #43 ITS/ITR/STU, BMW 325I, STU LAP RECORD
SUMMIT POINT WV 1:24:229 SCCA
(DynoDynamics https:vimeo.com/8486878 Dyno Video)
"Chance Favors The Prepared Mind"

I BUILD SUSPENSIONS (Consult) FROM MILD TO WILD FOR RWD & XI E46's
Quote:
Originally Posted by RacerX View Post
Nitrous is a little trickier than boost, but it's not the spray that kills motors, it's STUPIDITY!!
I Know How To Fix The Rear "Bouncing" Problem On Your Cheap Coilovers Like: Jom RL FK SE & RK.
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Old 08-16-2016, 12:46 AM   #11
BKMrSteel
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Ordering new lowering springs, Help and Advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob43 View Post
Have you received or installed your new 12kg rear springs ?







Rob43

Yes, I've only been able to drive about 100 miles on them yet, but things seem to have improved so far. Trying not to have another setback in my hamstring recovery. Probably going to take the car out later this week, keep the tires from flat spotting so badly again.

Hood was up because the battery died sitting so long.

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Old 08-16-2016, 01:06 AM   #12
Rob43
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Let me know how the rear shock's do at controlling the new 12kg springs. I figure you're asking the rear shocks to control about ~33% more at this point which is probably right at their maximum ability. Time will tell if you get any bounce from the rear end, let me know if you do.



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Rob #43 ITS/ITR/STU, BMW 325I, STU LAP RECORD
SUMMIT POINT WV 1:24:229 SCCA
(DynoDynamics https:vimeo.com/8486878 Dyno Video)
"Chance Favors The Prepared Mind"

I BUILD SUSPENSIONS (Consult) FROM MILD TO WILD FOR RWD & XI E46's
Quote:
Originally Posted by RacerX View Post
Nitrous is a little trickier than boost, but it's not the spray that kills motors, it's STUPIDITY!!
I Know How To Fix The Rear "Bouncing" Problem On Your Cheap Coilovers Like: Jom RL FK SE & RK.
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Old 08-21-2016, 09:04 AM   #13
BKMrSteel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob43 View Post
Let me know how the rear shock's do at controlling the new 12kg springs. I figure you're asking the rear shocks to control about ~33% more at this point which is probably right at their maximum ability. Time will tell if you get any bounce from the rear end, let me know if you do.







Rob43

Had a chance to drive the car some, can't say it's bouncing at the moment. I would have been fine with 6" spring, but this gives me flexibility in both directions. Should the shocks be set on the stiffer side to manage the stiff springs, or is it irrelevant?
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Old 08-21-2016, 09:17 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BKMrSteel View Post
Had a chance to drive the car some, can't say it's bouncing at the moment. I would have been fine with 6" spring, but this gives me flexibility in both directions. Should the shocks be set on the stiffer side to manage the stiff springs, or is it irrelevant?

They "should" be set to a stiffer setting, but hey, if it currently feels good, leave them alone for now. You'll certainly figure it out as you put miles on the chassis.



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SUMMIT POINT WV 1:24:229 SCCA
(DynoDynamics https:vimeo.com/8486878 Dyno Video)
"Chance Favors The Prepared Mind"

I BUILD SUSPENSIONS (Consult) FROM MILD TO WILD FOR RWD & XI E46's
Quote:
Originally Posted by RacerX View Post
Nitrous is a little trickier than boost, but it's not the spray that kills motors, it's STUPIDITY!!
I Know How To Fix The Rear "Bouncing" Problem On Your Cheap Coilovers Like: Jom RL FK SE & RK.
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Old 09-23-2016, 06:18 PM   #15
BKMrSteel
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Ordering new lowering springs, Help and Advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob43 View Post
They "should" be set to a stiffer setting, but hey, if it currently feels good, leave them alone for now. You'll certainly figure it out as you put miles on the chassis.







Rob43

Everything still feels good and smooth. It's a really aggressive feel, but most of the road in my state is rather smooth and maintained. The back still gives more than the front, but i wouldn't say it bounces.


I have noticed the rear feels like it starts to lift as it leans around a long sweeping turn. It this because of the sway being on the stiffest setting? Should I soften it? What provides the best traction potential for am open diff? So far it's held any abrupt turn without any indication of being at the limit. Also have had good traction, but that could be the tires.

Last edited by BKMrSteel; 09-24-2016 at 12:05 AM.
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Old 09-24-2016, 04:40 PM   #16
Rob43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BKMrSteel View Post
Everything still feels good and smooth. It's a really aggressive feel, but most of the road in my state is rather smooth and maintained. The back still gives more than the front, but i wouldn't say it bounces.


I have noticed the rear feels like it starts to lift as it leans around a long sweeping turn. It this because of the sway being on the stiffest setting? Should I soften it? What provides the best traction potential for am open diff? So far it's held any abrupt turn without any indication of being at the limit. Also have had good traction, but that could be the tires.

Curiously, what exact front & rear damper numbers (0-30) are you currently set on ?



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SUMMIT POINT WV 1:24:229 SCCA
(DynoDynamics https:vimeo.com/8486878 Dyno Video)
"Chance Favors The Prepared Mind"

I BUILD SUSPENSIONS (Consult) FROM MILD TO WILD FOR RWD & XI E46's
Quote:
Originally Posted by RacerX View Post
Nitrous is a little trickier than boost, but it's not the spray that kills motors, it's STUPIDITY!!
I Know How To Fix The Rear "Bouncing" Problem On Your Cheap Coilovers Like: Jom RL FK SE & RK.
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Old 09-24-2016, 09:28 PM   #17
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I think 20/30 front and 18/30 rear. I want to try increasing both a little.
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Old 09-25-2016, 12:30 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BKMrSteel View Post
I think 20/30 front and 18/30 rear. I want to try increasing both a little.

So are you saying that Both front struts are set to 20 & Both rear shocks are set to 18 ?


Also is setting 0 the softest & is setting 30 the firmest ?



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Rob #43 ITS/ITR/STU, BMW 325I, STU LAP RECORD
SUMMIT POINT WV 1:24:229 SCCA
(DynoDynamics https:vimeo.com/8486878 Dyno Video)
"Chance Favors The Prepared Mind"

I BUILD SUSPENSIONS (Consult) FROM MILD TO WILD FOR RWD & XI E46's
Quote:
Originally Posted by RacerX View Post
Nitrous is a little trickier than boost, but it's not the spray that kills motors, it's STUPIDITY!!
I Know How To Fix The Rear "Bouncing" Problem On Your Cheap Coilovers Like: Jom RL FK SE & RK.

Last edited by Rob43; 09-25-2016 at 12:32 PM.
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Old 09-25-2016, 05:04 PM   #19
BKMrSteel
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Quote:
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So are you saying that Both front struts are set to 20 & Both rear shocks are set to 18 ?


Also is setting 0 the softest & is setting 30 the firmest ?



Rob43

Yes, both front and rear are the same on both sides. 0 is soft and 30 is stiff.
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Old 09-25-2016, 06:41 PM   #20
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Because you now have a higher 12kg rear spring rate, most likely you'll need a higher number on the rear dampers to compensate.

First see if you can slightly lower the front strut settings, maybe set them to ~15. Then set the rear about ~5 clicks more to compensate for the extra 20% of spring rate that you now have back there. There are many variables at play, but "typically" the rear wants a little bit more dampening than the front. If you move the damper settings up (firmer), move them up with a firmer bias in the rear by roughly ~5 clicks.



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Rob #43 ITS/ITR/STU, BMW 325I, STU LAP RECORD
SUMMIT POINT WV 1:24:229 SCCA
(DynoDynamics https:vimeo.com/8486878 Dyno Video)
"Chance Favors The Prepared Mind"

I BUILD SUSPENSIONS (Consult) FROM MILD TO WILD FOR RWD & XI E46's
Quote:
Originally Posted by RacerX View Post
Nitrous is a little trickier than boost, but it's not the spray that kills motors, it's STUPIDITY!!
I Know How To Fix The Rear "Bouncing" Problem On Your Cheap Coilovers Like: Jom RL FK SE & RK.
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