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Old 08-16-2012, 11:55 PM   #1521
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I'm a little disappointed in this thread.
Miles ruins everything
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Old 08-17-2012, 12:00 AM   #1522
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I'm a little disappointed in this thread.
So am I. Miles needs to make more posts.
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Old 08-17-2012, 12:01 AM   #1523
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So am I. Miles needs to make more posts.
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Old 08-17-2012, 12:03 AM   #1524
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Old 08-17-2012, 12:30 AM   #1525
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Caligula is a grossly disturbing video. For some reason I feel like albee would like it, as it disturbs me in a way not too different than Beyond the Valley of the Dolls.
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Old 08-17-2012, 12:39 AM   #1526
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You and I have the same taste in disturbing and distasteful films; the only difference is that you're in denial.
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Old 08-17-2012, 01:04 AM   #1527
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You and I have the same taste in disturbing and distasteful films; the only difference is that you're in denial.
*shudders in fear*
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Old 08-17-2012, 01:05 AM   #1528
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crap, 11pm already? Ugh... need to go to sleep before midnight. I've been feeling weirder and weirder as the weeks been going on with these 6 hour of sleep nights.
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Old 08-17-2012, 01:19 AM   #1529
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Have you made up your mind with the Jeep? A quick search shows that your budget will get you a mid-late 90's Wrangler with upwards of 150k miles. I think Jeeps are built pretty well, but I don't know if they become expensive to maintain with that many miles.

I think you can get a newer Japanese SUV with lower miles for the same price. An 01-03 Pathfinder comes to mind.
Not really into the Pathfinder, but if I find a good deal, I'll consider it. My primary search has been on Wranglers from 1995-2001. In fact, I checked out two in Burbank today and two in Oxnard, they were all a bit beat up do to off-roading. I actually tested one off-road today, the thing is like a tractor in low gears. I'm willing to spend in the upwards range of 6-7k if I find something good.

I'll probably try to see another one in the morning.

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I feel bad for the people who are here illegally. For some of the people, the USA is the only place that they know, so yes, it is their home, but it's the principle of the matter that bothers me. The dream act would cost the taxpayers a lot of money. Why should we have to pay for the wrongdoing of others?

Getting through college is already hard enough for USA citizens. The dream act would only make things harder. That's not very fair.
I understand your concern, but the illegal children have no fault in this matter, especially if they can out-succeed the average American citizen in academic credentials. If not, deportation would be the other option.

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Win the American heart through its stomach.
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Old 08-17-2012, 01:32 AM   #1530
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Not really into the Pathfinder, but if I find a good deal, I'll consider it. My primary search has been on Wranglers from 1995-2001. In fact, I checked out two in Burbank today and two in Oxnard, they were all a bit beat up do to off-roading. I actually tested one off-road today, the thing is like a tractor in low gears. I'm willing to spend in the upwards range of 6-7k if I find something good.
I think you might need to stretch your budget to the max in order to get a decent Wrangler. After my search last night, I realized how well they hold their value.

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I understand your concern, but the illegal children have no fault in this matter, especially if they can out-succeed the average American citizen in academic credentials. If not, deportation would be the other option.
I understand that it's not their fault. I agree 100%. I know some people who are in this situation and I think that they're in a really bad spot. My heart wants to help them, but my mind says otherwise.

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Old 08-17-2012, 01:49 AM   #1531
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I think you might need to stretch your budget to the max in order to get a decent Wrangler. After my search last night, I realized how well they hold their value.
I actually found two really clean ones, but they were sold within days. This guy I met today had a 2005 Wrangler with $20K in mods. The thing looked like a beast, I regret not taking a picture.


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I understand that it's not their fault. I agree 100%. I know some people who are in this situation and I think that they're in a really bad spot. My heart wants to help them, but my mind says otherwise.
Yea. I just think that anyone who is innocent should be given a chance. Just my perspective.
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Old 08-17-2012, 01:56 AM   #1532
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This looks pretty good..

http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-s...25625266&Log=0
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Old 08-17-2012, 02:35 AM   #1533
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Yea. I just think that anyone who is innocent should be given a chance. Just my perspective.
I agree. If there was a way to allow these people to go to college without passing the cost to the taxpayers, I would have no problem.

I really don't care about people who are here illegally. When the colonists first settled in the USA and kicked out the Indians, you could say that they were here illegally.

My problem lies within the abuse of the system. Many illegal immigrants (of every ethnicity) abuse the system. It's time that the USA crack down on this sort of thing.

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Old 08-17-2012, 03:21 AM   #1534
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What about the Americans who abuse the system? If the illegals don't do anything productive, they get deported (understandably, this isn't their country). But if the Americans don't do anything productive, they get away scot-free simply because this is their country? Why don't they get sent away? Immigration is a problem in many countries, even those countries people emigrate from, and I don't think there are many Americans who settle into other countries illegally these days (relatively speaking), but that's a little one-sided to say that illegal immigrants are sucking the money out of US taxpayers.

I'm still not too crazy on these illegal immigrants-mostly because my family and I went through the costly, tedious process of coming here legally, but I can't deny the fact that they do the dirty jobs when no one else wants to. Which brings up another issue: Americans all want high-paying jobs that require an education, but can't be bothered to go to school. College? Yes, it's hard to get into, but not impossible, and the options are there. Yet the moment "someone else" takes the job, they're suddenly "stealing our jobs" and when they take advantage of the education system, "they're stealing our opportunities/money". Are we all supposed to be doctors and lawyers? And who's going to take over the low-paying jobs if we are? We don't want it, but we don't want to share it. This mentality reminds of me of people who leave food in the fridge until it spoils, yet forbid other people from ever touching it.

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Old 08-17-2012, 03:39 AM   #1535
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Indeed, many Americans abuse the system, but just because some citizens do it, doesn't make it any less wrong for illegals to do the same thing. Citizens who abuse the system (and are caught) have a whole lot more to lose than illegals do. That is beside the point, however, as I am speaking strictly about illegal immigrants.
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Old 08-17-2012, 10:22 AM   #1536
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I agree. If there was a way to allow these people to go to college without passing the cost to the taxpayers, I would have no problem.

I really don't care about people who are here illegally. When the colonists first settled in the USA and kicked out the Indians, you could say that they were here illegally.

My problem lies within the abuse of the system. Many illegal immigrants (of every ethnicity) abuse the system. It's time that the USA crack down on this sort of thing.
If cost is your heartburn, that's not a very strong argument. Average cost for for public education per year is roughly $8k. Assume that, on average, those that qualify for the Dream Act (keep in mind, there is a cap for total participants), attend school for 10 years, to use a round number. For the remainder of their lifetime, they will FAR exceed that total in terms of what they put back into the economy in consumer purchases, sales tax, income tax etc.
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Old 08-17-2012, 10:37 AM   #1537
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What about the Americans who abuse the system? If the illegals don't do anything productive, they get deported (understandably, this isn't their country). But if the Americans don't do anything productive, they get away scot-free simply because this is their country? Why don't they get sent away? Immigration is a problem in many countries, even those countries people emigrate from, and I don't think there are many Americans who settle into other countries illegally these days (relatively speaking), but that's a little one-sided to say that illegal immigrants are sucking the money out of US taxpayers.

I'm still not too crazy on these illegal immigrants-mostly because my family and I went through the costly, tedious process of coming here legally, but I can't deny the fact that they do the dirty jobs when no one else wants to. Which brings up another issue: Americans all want high-paying jobs that require an education, but can't be bothered to go to school. College? Yes, it's hard to get into, but not impossible, and the options are there. Yet the moment "someone else" takes the job, they're suddenly "stealing our jobs" and when they take advantage of the education system, "they're stealing our opportunities/money". Are we all supposed to be doctors and lawyers? And who's going to take over the low-paying jobs if we are? We don't want it, but we don't want to share it. This mentality reminds of me of people who leave food in the fridge until it spoils, yet forbid other people from ever touching it.

/rant
and then there's Albeee who eats cake and goes on man-dates at his county job.
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Old 08-17-2012, 10:39 AM   #1538
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If cost is your heartburn, that's not a very strong argument. Average cost for for public education per year is roughly $8k. Assume that, on average, those that qualify for the Dream Act (keep in mind, there is a cap for total participants), attend school for 10 years, to use a round number. For the remainder of their lifetime, they will FAR exceed that total in terms of what they put back into the economy in consumer purchases, sales tax, income tax etc.
So if these people are allowed to attend colleges and apply for financial aid, aren't other students (citizens) who are also applying for financial aid getting shafted?

I see your point that some of these people will contribute more in the long run, but passing the dream act is sending the wrong message to the world. If we make things easy for illegals, they're just going to keep coming.
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Old 08-17-2012, 10:54 AM   #1539
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So if these people are allowed to attend colleges and apply for financial aid, aren't other students (citizens) who are also applying for financial aid getting shafted?

I see your point that some of these people will contribute more in the long run, but passing the dream act is sending the wrong message to the world. If we make things easy for illegals, they're just going to keep coming.
Negligible. I'd argue that an illegals parents are very likely to be working the crap jobs that Albeee references, and tax dollars are pumped in either through the IRS or employer withholding. Where do financial aid dollars come from - those tax dollars. Contrast this with the legal, welfare recipients who aren't working and already receiving federal assistance.

I'll take a PERSON, legal or illegal, that wants to earn an honest living, contribute to this country any day of the week over someone who doesn't.
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Old 08-17-2012, 11:08 AM   #1540
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Let's just enslave illegal immigrants and use them for hard labor.
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