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Old 08-22-2012, 12:03 AM   #1881
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Nice! Finally decided on that huh. Have you done anything to it?
Just a couple of things.

Koni Yellows / H&R sport springs / JB4 / MS catless downpipes / BMS intake
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Old 08-22-2012, 12:07 AM   #1882
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Meh, so so at that too from all I've heard, seen, and read. I've heard a lot of rumors that the E46 M3 is faster on many tracks. The fact that even with and engine that has 90hp more and weighs less and it's so close is a pretty obvious sign how lame the m3 became.
I guess it would depend on the track, like you said. I feel like the E46 M3 might be more agile, but the E9x M3 definitely has the power to make up for it's shortcomings.
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Old 08-22-2012, 12:08 AM   #1883
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I can see that, but shouldn't it cost less? Unless there are other advancements in comparison with the standard equipped versions (aside from the lack of unnecessary technologies).
Yes, it SHOULD cost less, but most car companies would put on some fancy badge that designates a stripped model as a "race car" and charge more for it.
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Old 08-22-2012, 12:09 AM   #1884
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Just a couple of things.

Koni Yellows / H&R sport springs / JB4 / MS catless downpipes / BMS intake
Awesome. As long as it maintains the OEM look with the addition of slight modifications, I give it a .
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Old 08-22-2012, 12:13 AM   #1885
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Yes, it SHOULD cost less, but most car companies would put on some fancy badge that designates a stripped model as a "race car" and charge more for it.
Yup.

Sad part is, people would fall for it too.
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Old 08-22-2012, 12:13 AM   #1886
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Awesome. As long as it maintains the OEM look with the addition of slight modifications, I give it a .
Yup. I'm not into all the flashy stuff. Stock appearance, debadged, but will blow an E9x M3 out of the water.

I would like to get some new wheels, though, just because the stock wheels are a little bit heavy and not wide enough. Ideally, I would want to go with an 18x9 square setup.
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Old 08-22-2012, 12:15 AM   #1887
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The only option for people who want a new car is to buy a bare bones model. Even so, most base cars are pretty well equipped lol.

Companies should offer special editions that are completely stripped of any unnecessary items.


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And then jack up the price like Porsche?
Well, they take out weight by adding expensive things in. Then they make a bonus when they charge you for a radio that may not be installed.

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How many % of the market would be interested in an unequipped model? Very low percentage.
I'd actually think with certain cars, there would be enough of a market that it might make sense. Quite a few sports actually.

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I'm not paying $60K for a stripped-out M3. Or, in BMW's case, $95K for a stripped-out M3.


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A lot of 'Merican car companies sell a "body in white" which is literally the body of the car....no wires, no suspension, no anything, just a body
So does like every company that is involved in motorsports. I know BMW and Porsche both do that. Except they also give you a high quality roll cage and stitch welded body. Sadly that costs $20-30k extra for that.

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lol Porsche charges extra for wanting a badge delete.

During the production process, all they have to do is not put the badge on the car and they can put it on the next car in the assembly line. Why the hell would they charge extra for that?
They don't charge extra, do they? I thought you just don't get a refund. Unless you are talking about when they delete the badge and paint it on instead.

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True, but that's why they can be offered as a custom order. Similar to BMW Individual Package... Who would pay thousands of dollars for a paint job that is only slightly different (in some cases) than what is available as standard? Not many, but they're still out there.

If BMW, for example, offered a stripped "Track Spec" M3, I think a good amount of people would go for it (assuming that it was the same price as a base M3).
But what would be considered an optional "extra" that could be removed?
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Old 08-22-2012, 12:17 AM   #1888
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Yup. I'm not into all the flashy stuff. Stock appearance, debadged, but will blow an E9x M3 out of the water.

I would like to get some new wheels, though, just because the stock wheels are a little bit heavy and not wide enough. Ideally, I would want to go with an 18x9 square setup.
Perfect size IMO.

My stock rears used to be 18x8.5. Loved it.
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Old 08-22-2012, 12:17 AM   #1889
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I guess it would depend on the track, like you said. I feel like the E46 M3 might be more agile, but the E9x M3 definitely has the power to make up for it's shortcomings.
So that implies that, aside from the engine, the rest of the car got worse.
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Old 08-22-2012, 12:24 AM   #1890
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They don't charge extra, do they? I thought you just don't get a refund. Unless you are talking about when they delete the badge and paint it on instead.
I think they do...

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But what would be considered an optional "extra" that could be removed?
What can be removed?

Sound deadening, rear seats, AC, and the radio to name a few things. This alone should not warrant a price increase for a "special edition" model.

However, if the special edition models were to include lightweight wheels, different suspension, etc... I can understand a price increase.
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Old 08-22-2012, 12:29 AM   #1891
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I thought you changed the wheels already, Wes? I remember you telling me you sold the 230s some time ago.
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Old 08-22-2012, 12:32 AM   #1892
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I thought you changed the wheels already, Wes? I remember you telling me you sold the 230s some time ago.
Yes, I got rid of the 230s quickly and got some 189s because the 19s just road too roughly, especially with those stupid runflats. I want wider and lighter wheels, like the Apex ARC-8.
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Old 08-22-2012, 12:34 AM   #1893
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A lot of 'Merican car companies sell a "body in white" which is literally the body of the car....no wires, no suspension, no anything, just a body
Rearry? I want to buy a body-in-white Ford Focus hatchback!
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Old 08-22-2012, 12:34 AM   #1894
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I can see where a track spec model would be more expensive if it were to stay street legal.

Example: Stripping an F30 328i sedan

-Eliminating sound system, now you need various block off plates for speakers and radio, new production parts.
-Sound deadening mats, no cost difference to exclude
-carpeting, now you have to replace the carpeting with a panel for the driver and passenger to rest their feet, since the floor is covered in wires and strengthening dimples. Low production level stamped or hand made item, pricey.
-Can't remove paneling on pillars of the car as these are considered passive safety items.
-If you remove the center console, it would look ugly and there would either need to some new covering of some sort.
-You need separate production line for wire harnesses without various lighting and accessory connections, pricey.
-Can't remove airbag.
-Installing a regulated roll cage adds like $20k if done on a budget.
-Removing rear seats may require additional legalization, more money
-Lighter seats, pricey
-without installing a roll cage, all the heavy side impact bars and such need to remain in the car.
-Removing some of this weight would make suspension perform poorly, so new dampers, springs, and such would be needed.
-removing AC can be done affordably
-manual windows are so rare now that it would probably require some new production parts

etc...

You pretty much end up with a hand built car.
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Old 08-22-2012, 12:35 AM   #1895
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Whew, at least you stuck with a 5-spoke.
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Old 08-22-2012, 12:35 AM   #1896
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Rearry? I want to buy a body-in-white Ford Focus hatchback!
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Old 08-22-2012, 12:38 AM   #1897
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I can see where a track spec model would be more expensive if it were to stay street legal.

Example: Stripping an F30 328i sedan

-Eliminating sound system, now you need various block off plates for speakers and radio, new production parts.
-Sound deadening mats, no cost difference to exclude
-carpeting, now you have to replace the carpeting with a panel for the driver and passenger to rest their feet, since the floor is covered in wires and strengthening dimples. Low production level stamped or hand made item, pricey.
-Can't remove paneling on pillars of the car as these are considered passive safety items.
-If you remove the center console, it would look ugly and there would either need to some new covering of some sort.
-You need separate production line for wire harnesses without various lighting and accessory connections, pricey.
-Can't remove airbag.
-Installing a regulated roll cage adds like $20k if done on a budget.
-Removing rear seats may require additional legalization, more money
-Lighter seats, pricey
-without installing a roll cage, all the heavy side impact bars and such need to remain in the car.
-Removing some of this weight would make suspension perform poorly, so new dampers, springs, and such would be needed.
-removing AC can be done affordably
-manual windows are so rare now that it would probably require some new production parts

etc...

You pretty much end up with a hand built car.

Why bother making moulds for the bits? Taking out the wiring alone will probably save a lot of weight. Leave the exposed parts of the radio/switches there. It will just be "aspirational".
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Old 08-22-2012, 12:39 AM   #1898
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The ST is cheaper than the "normal" top shelf model. Time to sell the Fit!
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Old 08-22-2012, 12:39 AM   #1899
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Yuck, just thinking about street legal track car is a headache.
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Old 08-22-2012, 12:43 AM   #1900
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Yuck, just thinking about street legal track car is a headache.


...yeah, I'm getting a headache just looking at it.
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