E46 BMW Social Directory E46 FAQ 3-Series Discussion Forums BMW Photo Gallery BMW 3-Series Technical Information E46 Fanatics - The Ultimate BMW Resource BMW Vendors General E46 Forum The Tire Rack's Tire Wheel Forum Forced Induction Forum The Off-Topic The E46 BMW Showroom For Sale, For Trade or Wanting to Buy

Welcome to the E46Fanatics forums. E46Fanatics is the premiere website for BMW 3 series owners around the world with interactive forums, a geographical enthusiast directory, photo galleries, and technical information for BMW enthusiasts.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.

Go Back   E46Fanatics > E46 BMW > General E46 Forum

General E46 Forum
This is the place to get answers, opinions and everything you need related to your E46 (sedan, coupe, convertible and wagon) BMW!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 02-06-2016, 06:08 PM   #1
Colivia
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: East Coast, US
Posts: 4
My Ride: '13 128i Conv
Reasonable negotiation attempt on e46 vert today?

I'm a newbie to the forum, but not to BMW. I've owned a 2007 328i (bought new) and a 2009 335i that my partner bought as a dealer loaner in 2010 for a steal. Both have since been sold and we have a 2014 x3 35i Red on Red that we custom ordered.

I have always wanted a convertible but have never been practical as a daily driver. This site has been awesome resource and I read through the pre-purchase check lists and came really close to making a deal today:

I found a very clean 2004 325ci with Premium and Sport packages offered on a used car lot. Carfax was good with appropriate of service history. Blue with tan interior, beautiful. 110k. Asking price $7500. I did what I could from the checklist and then took it for a PPI at a BMW Dealer just down the street (the only indi places nearby weren't open today) and they found the following:

Needs: Oil Pan Gasket, Oil & Filter Change, Vanos Oil Pipe All, Both O2 sensors (but no dash light), Power Steering Intake & Return Hoses, Rear Differential Axle Shaft Seal, Trunk Lid Lock Assy, Air Filter, Coolant System Fluid Exchange. Trim: Right D Pillar Cover, Loose Sun glass Holder tray. The cost for the BMW STEALer to perform all of this: $5900

The used car lot dealer only had one key. So that's another $250 to factor in.

The Coolant system itself the BMW STEALer said was OK like the expansion tank, etc. but I would do as I'm told here and replace them anyway. Spark plugs, lower control arm bushings, and fuel pump were recently replaced.

The used car lot dealer scoffed at the BMW Dealer report and said that they didn't believe the VANOS Pipes or O2 sensors since there was no dash light. They could fix everything else on that list at their shop next door for $500.

KBB purchase paid range from a dealer is $5800-$7000.

My opening offer was $6500 inclusive plus having them fix everything on the list. I thought that was fair. Their counter was full price + $300 Dealer Fee ($7800) with those items fixed. They'd "lose money on the deal" if they sold it for anything less.

This car was really clean compared to some others I've looked at. I didn't mind the 325i's power; it felt fast enough to me and handled well.

It's been a while since I've bought a used car. Am I being reasonable here?

Last edited by Colivia; 02-06-2016 at 06:15 PM.
Colivia is offline   Reply With Quote
Ads by Google

Guests, get your FREE E46Fanatics.com membership to remove this ad.
Old 02-06-2016, 06:34 PM   #2
vandyboy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nashville, TN
Posts: 682
My Ride: 2001 325i
Say no to $7800. Personally, I would worry if the "garage next door" used genuine BMW parts and the proper fluids AND actually fixed those problems. Also, be mindful of the fact that at 110K, you need to do an entire cooling system refresh (water pump, thermostat, belts, hoses and expansion tank) or the car can overheat and warp the aluminum head. Figure to add another $2000 (at least) for maintenance to the price of the car.

Driving a newer BMW and owning an older one are two entirely different experiences.

Last edited by vandyboy; 02-06-2016 at 06:41 PM.
vandyboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2016, 06:46 PM   #3
Mrjudd77
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 171
My Ride: 325ci
Stick to your guns price wise. I am in car sales and they should have at least $1500 in mark up to be able to make a profit on a sale. Let them keep some of their profit and get your price with everything fixed. Take someone along with the PA soft gear to verify any codes.
Mrjudd77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2016, 06:50 PM   #4
ChuckyVee
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Woodway, Texas
Posts: 915
My Ride: 2000 323i, '99 328is
For nearly 8K, I'd expect the car to be leak free and up to date on maintenance. The car is at the mileage where pretty much everything...cooling, suspension, plugs, CCV, fuel delivery, etc is going to need attention. All that crap ads up quick!
__________________


First Bimmer..."Miss December"...2000 323i, purchased Dec. 2013 w/82K on the clock. PM thus far...pads/rotors, belts/pulleys, complete CS overhaul, FCABs, plugs, autotranny/differential service, fuel pump, filter, and relay. Full front end refresh with LCAs and bushings, struts and mounts, inner/outer tie rods, sway bar endlinks and bushings.
ChuckyVee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2016, 11:10 PM   #5
tcphoto
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Madison, GA
Posts: 1,482
My Ride: '01 TiAg E46
You did the right thing by walking away. You don't need to buy the first one that you come by, keep looking and odds are a better one will appear.
__________________
tcphoto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2016, 12:14 AM   #6
CharlieFoxtrot
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: White Plains NY & Weeki Wachee FL
Posts: 208
My Ride: 02 330Ci
My 02 330 @ 155k mi is in FAR better shape than that car, with complete F&R suspension overhaul, complete cooling system replacement, AC evap (plus heater core and blower while I was there), fuel pump, and more all in the last 13 months (Only driven ~6K mi in that time). One of my BMWs got new PS hoses a year or two ago, I forget which car. If I thought I could get $7800 for it, I'd sell it!!

edit: oh yeah, and I've got 2 keys!

I don't believe the O2s either, without a code. Is the axle seal really leaking, or just a weep that could be ignored for years? A leaking oil filter housing gasket (easy job) is often mistaken for a bad oil pan gasket (not easy job). What are they calling a D pillar on that car? The D is the tailgate pillar on a wagon/SUV.

Let them sit on it for a few months and then make an offer again after you get an estimate from a trusted BMW independent mech. Meanwhile, keep looking for a seller like me.

kevin

Last edited by CharlieFoxtrot; 02-07-2016 at 12:16 AM.
CharlieFoxtrot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2016, 06:44 AM   #7
Colivia
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: East Coast, US
Posts: 4
My Ride: '13 128i Conv
Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlieFoxtrot View Post
My 02 330 @ 155k mi is in FAR better shape than that car, with complete F&R suspension overhaul, complete cooling system replacement, AC evap (plus heater core and blower while I was there), fuel pump, and more all in the last 13 months (Only driven ~6K mi in that time). One of my BMWs got new PS hoses a year or two ago, I forget which car. If I thought I could get $7800 for it, I'd sell it!!

edit: oh yeah, and I've got 2 keys!

I don't believe the O2s either, without a code. Is the axle seal really leaking, or just a weep that could be ignored for years? A leaking oil filter housing gasket (easy job) is often mistaken for a bad oil pan gasket (not easy job). What are they calling a D pillar on that car? The D is the tailgate pillar on a wagon/SUV.

Let them sit on it for a few months and then make an offer again after you get an estimate from a trusted BMW independent mech. Meanwhile, keep looking for a seller like me.

kevin
Thank you all for the comments.

Attached is a photo of what BMW is calling the D Pillar. On the car I looked that rectangle trim piece cover is missing. Minor in the grand scheme of things I suppose, but I don't like buying a toy with missing parts, or maybe it's just the OCD.

Fortunately, I don't NEED a weekend convertible...I just badly want one!!!
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	DPillar.jpg
Views:	110
Size:	67.8 KB
ID:	623758  
Colivia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2016, 07:19 AM   #8
De Sisti
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Glos
Posts: 19
My Ride: 320d SE Touring
Mate, there will always be other cars around that fit your requirements.
However, if you feel the unrelenting desire to buy the car (in the knowledge
that you could be spending £xxxx to keep it roadworthy, then 'fill yer boots' lad.
De Sisti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2016, 07:49 AM   #9
Yossarian
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Eastern part of Western CT
Posts: 106
My Ride: 2000 323Ci
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colivia View Post
They'd "lose money on the deal" if they sold it for anything less.
As your quotation marks imply, you know they're lying. Wait for them to get real. They know if a potential buyer really likes a car, the customer will often pull the trigger on a higher price than originally planned. Since you had a PPI done, they know you are serious.

Or, better yet, be patient and keep looking. Do you really want to do business with someone you know is lying to you?
Yossarian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2016, 08:19 AM   #10
Colivia
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: East Coast, US
Posts: 4
My Ride: '13 128i Conv
Agreed, the search will continue.
Colivia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2016, 09:57 AM   #11
CharlieFoxtrot
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: White Plains NY & Weeki Wachee FL
Posts: 208
My Ride: 02 330Ci
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colivia View Post
Attached is a photo of what BMW is calling the D Pillar. On the car I looked that rectangle trim piece cover is missing.
Oh, BMW calls that "cover, right." Should be under $30, takes 2 minutes to install. May have come unhooked and dropped out of sight but not missing. Here it is: http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...diagId=51_4087
CharlieFoxtrot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2016, 12:27 PM   #12
GotZHP
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: 805
Posts: 246
My Ride: '04 BMW 330i ZHP
Continue your search. I was able to talk down the price of my e46 by about $1,300. If I didn't have to pay the sales tax in California it would have been a total of $2,000.

I was able to talk it down that much even after the used car dealer replace lower front control arm bushings, new front tires pads and rotors, new valve cover gasket, new alternator,and Smog work. Just bought the car two weeks ago!

As many said, around 100,000 miles you need to replace your cooling system if it hasn't been done. Use this to your advantage when negotiating and get the price of the car down.

Also, be ready for maintenance items to pop up. I have added about $500 dollars of parts to my shopping list in the two weeks I have owned the car. I will be doing my own maintenance so I can't even imagine what I would be saving at the stealership in my city. They wanted $150 just to give me a code read out so I would know why my service engine soon light was on!

Good Luck!
GotZHP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2016, 01:20 AM   #13
Colivia
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: East Coast, US
Posts: 4
My Ride: '13 128i Conv
Hi folks. Really appreciated the feedback. To close the loop, I made a purchase earlier today that may be sacrilege to the intent of this forum but here is what brought me to this point:

Since posting this thread I have driven 3 more 330's. All from used car dealer lots.

The first was a '04 gray or gray 330ci premium (Asking price $7800) that had more than an acceptable amount of scratches, front bumper far ends needed re-clipped, 107k miles, strong engine, but pulled to the left at moderate (non-highway) speeds. Oh, and the top wouldn't go down; got the flashing red lights. PASS

The second was an '03 Dark Blue on Chestnut Two-Tone, 330ci, premium, sport, xenon, 89k miles (asking price $8800). Took the dealer 20 minutes to finally pull it around, turns out they had to jump it. When I sat in to take a test drive I tried rolling up the window and the car died. They jumped it again and I went around the block by myself however the radio would short out every couple of minutes (turn off and on again). Half way through the ride while stopped at a light the car felt like it shuttered, downshifted, and the check engine light came on. It revved a lot more to get in to gears. I was so happy to make it back. Upon getting out, I noticed that the back seat had water stains all over; I think they left the top down and water got everywhere. PASS

I was really hoping that third time would be a charm and found a '05 Sapphire Black on Chestnut Two-Tone, 330ci, premium, sport, xenon, 67k (asking price $9900). This was fun, although it must have needed new shocks because it was the most uncomfortable of the three on bumpy back roads. The dealer knew some back roads where I got to let it fly and it was a joy. While pulling back in the dealer, the cabin filled with oil smell. I assume it might need the valve gasket but the dealer kept insisting it was the low tire causing the smell. No visible smoke. PASS

So now I see why you folks all insist on avoiding dealers; what they buy from auction seem to be mostly abused. I performed some country-wide searches online and 06's with low mileage and the colors and options would cost me $12-$14k + the extra maintenance/repairs to bring it up to snuff. And then don't forget the extra $500 I'd spend on the new android gps unit.

I did some soul searching and test drove some newer 1 series today. Purchased a stunning '13 Midnight Blue/Oyster 128i convertible with only 29k, 1+ year original warranty, cold weather, premium, wind deflector, and xenon for $21k which is below blue book dealer price. From the driver's cockpit it doesn't feel any smaller than the e46's I test drove.
Colivia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2016, 10:26 AM   #14
cvx5832
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Walnut Creek, CA
Posts: 3,529
My Ride: 325Ci, 325Cic, C300
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colivia View Post
Hi folks. Really appreciated the feedback. To close the loop, I made a purchase earlier today that may be sacrilege to the intent of this forum but here is what brought me to this point:

Since posting this thread I have driven 3 more 330's. All from used car dealer lots.

The first was a '04 gray or gray 330ci premium (Asking price $7800) that had more than an acceptable amount of scratches, front bumper far ends needed re-clipped, 107k miles, strong engine, but pulled to the left at moderate (non-highway) speeds. Oh, and the top wouldn't go down; got the flashing red lights. PASS

The second was an '03 Dark Blue on Chestnut Two-Tone, 330ci, premium, sport, xenon, 89k miles (asking price $8800). Took the dealer 20 minutes to finally pull it around, turns out they had to jump it. When I sat in to take a test drive I tried rolling up the window and the car died. They jumped it again and I went around the block by myself however the radio would short out every couple of minutes (turn off and on again). Half way through the ride while stopped at a light the car felt like it shuttered, downshifted, and the check engine light came on. It revved a lot more to get in to gears. I was so happy to make it back. Upon getting out, I noticed that the back seat had water stains all over; I think they left the top down and water got everywhere. PASS

I was really hoping that third time would be a charm and found a '05 Sapphire Black on Chestnut Two-Tone, 330ci, premium, sport, xenon, 67k (asking price $9900). This was fun, although it must have needed new shocks because it was the most uncomfortable of the three on bumpy back roads. The dealer knew some back roads where I got to let it fly and it was a joy. While pulling back in the dealer, the cabin filled with oil smell. I assume it might need the valve gasket but the dealer kept insisting it was the low tire causing the smell. No visible smoke. PASS

So now I see why you folks all insist on avoiding dealers; what they buy from auction seem to be mostly abused. I performed some country-wide searches online and 06's with low mileage and the colors and options would cost me $12-$14k + the extra maintenance/repairs to bring it up to snuff. And then don't forget the extra $500 I'd spend on the new android gps unit.

I did some soul searching and test drove some newer 1 series today. Purchased a stunning '13 Midnight Blue/Oyster 128i convertible with only 29k, 1+ year original warranty, cold weather, premium, wind deflector, and xenon for $21k which is below blue book dealer price. From the driver's cockpit it doesn't feel any smaller than the e46's I test drove.
Congrats and enjoy!
__________________






cvx5832 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2016, 12:56 PM   #15
vandyboy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nashville, TN
Posts: 682
My Ride: 2001 325i
IMO, you made a great purchase. I love the way a 1 series handles and drives. You will enjoy that car for a long time. Congrats!
vandyboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
deal, negotiation, price

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Censor is ON





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:41 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
(c) 1999 - 2016 performanceIX Inc - privacy policy - terms of use