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Old 01-02-2012, 04:40 PM   #1
SeanC
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Advanced MAF question, lean codes p0171 and p0174, no vacuum leaks

I did read a lot about these codes, so let's skip the obvious: standard vacuum leaks, DISA is not the problem here. CCV might still be the culprit, but maybe not. See the question about MAF below. No oil leaks or burns. The car runs and idles perfect.

The 330 has 136xxx miles on it. The SES was present when I bought it from the owner a few weeks ago, but that didn't bother me since the car ran pretty good. I thought there was a vacuum leak, and replaced the elbows both of which had small cracks on them, but apparently the problem is deeper, or so I think. Fuel cap is also replaced. The codes kept coming back each fix, which probably needed replacement anyways.

Took the family to ATL last weekend. Before heading over, I cleaned the MAF good with liberal amounts of CRC, and the light went off after a few minutes. It didn't come back until after about 300 miles. IMO, very good indication that the problem is related to MAF.

Averaged 30.5 mpg on my to ATL with no SES light, despite 30 minutes of stop and go interstate traffic at one point. SES came back the second day in ATL. On the way back, the SES light was present and I only averaged 29.7mpg. Looks like there was about %4.2 short term fuel trim increase (at most). Still not bad.

Onto the MAF. Just cleaned it one more time with some electronics cleaner and CRC at 30F weather. It was not fun. But I am thinking this will take care of it for some time, if not for good.

I realized the part number on the MAF read 13621438871 and that got me thinking. 13627567451 is the number listed on realoem.com for my car. Then I read that the latter superseded the former. Anybody knows why this was necessary? Is my MAF simply failing after 10 years?
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Last edited by SeanC; 01-02-2012 at 04:43 PM.
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Old 01-02-2012, 05:52 PM   #2
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I'm having similar issues. No vacuum leaks found. The codes come and go with no apparent common thread as to why. I haven't though taken the time to cliean the MAF. I'm getting ~25 MPG for a 330XI. Mixed highway and mountain driving. Seems low. Car runs great. New fuel, air filters and plugs.
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Old 01-02-2012, 06:10 PM   #3
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Few tests

#1 While the car is idling unplug the MAF, does the idle change? Plug it back in, the motor should shake for a minute and it's a good possibility that it'll die completely. If the idle doesn't change then you've found your problem. Your MPG doesn't reflect a bad MAF but maybe if it's slowly giving out, which would explain the CEL off for 300 miles then back on.

#2 While it's idling still, with the MAF plugged back in, take off the oil cap. Does the idle change? Place you palm over the hole in the valve cover. Is there suction? Also, check the torque on all the valve cover bolts and inspect on the side near and under the fuel rail for minor leaks. I see leaks develop there way before anything shows on the half moon shapes or header side in some cases.

#3 With the car off pull the dipstick out and wipe the tube with a paper towel or rag. Put your mouth on it and seal your lips (that's what he said) and blow down the tube. If you hear the oil in the bottom of the pan bubbling a bit then there is no leak there.

If your car passes all those tests I'd say look into the hoses that go from the SAP to the back of the engine under the intake manifold and buy a COLD WEATHER CCV kit. I emphasize cold weather because it is a much better hose kit. Good luck!!
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Old 01-02-2012, 06:22 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E46_330i_Stud View Post
Few tests

#1 While the car is idling unplug the MAF, does the idle change? Plug it back in, the motor should shake for a minute and it's a good possibility that it'll die completely. If the idle doesn't change then you've found your problem. Your MPG doesn't reflect a bad MAF but maybe if it's slowly giving out, which would explain the CEL off for 300 miles then back on.

#2 While it's idling still, with the MAF plugged back in, take off the oil cap. Does the idle change? Place you palm over the hole in the valve cover. Is there suction? Also, check the torque on all the valve cover bolts and inspect on the side near and under the fuel rail for minor leaks. I see leaks develop there way before anything shows on the half moon shapes or header side in some cases.

#3 With the car off pull the dipstick out and wipe the tube with a paper towel or rag. Put your mouth on it and seal your lips (that's what he said) and blow down the tube. If you hear the oil in the bottom of the pan bubbling a bit then there is no leak there.

If your car passes all those tests I'd say look into the hoses that go from the SAP to the back of the engine under the intake manifold and buy a COLD WEATHER CCV kit. I emphasize cold weather because it is a much better hose kit. Good luck!!
Really good advice.


I have this same problem. Happened last winter and cleared the code never came back until a couple of weeks ago. I have replaced the intake boots and oil separator and I'm about to get my car smoked.


I'm thinking it could possible be the intake manifold gasket, everything else has basically been ruled out
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Old 01-02-2012, 07:13 PM   #5
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Although you said it's not a vacuum leak, I'll just suggest that it still might be, although your gas mileage seems too good for that to be true.

MAFs do go bad--there's a cheaper hyundai maf that's the same as ours if maf is the route you take.

Also there's been some success from some by just cleaning the electrical contacts and crimping them in a bit on the female connector so they mate a little better. Avert your head when they mate...that's a private thing!

Then there's fuel filter too that could explain lean...again your mileage seems pretty good, but oddly, it's best at high speeds and doesn't use as much gas as at slower speeds, so a clogged fuel filter shouldn't be ruled out entirely. You might be picking up that code after the car has noticed issues at slower speeds...but it needs to notice them a number of times before deciding something is wrong and warning you with the light.

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Old 01-02-2012, 07:19 PM   #6
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I know this probably won't help, but, I fixed mine by simply disconnecting the battery for a minute and reconnecting it. CEL has not come back. Worth a try. I swear the MAF goes funky if you don't reset it every once in a while. I've replaced both boots and the CCV and the DISA is good. 63k miles.
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Old 01-02-2012, 07:19 PM   #7
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DMax is right there's a Hyundai MAF for you if you have a 325, if it's a 330 your our of luck. Can't tell because I'm on bimmerapp.
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Old 01-02-2012, 08:00 PM   #8
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1) have you smoked the car to be sure?

2) clear the codes and see if he comes back.

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Old 01-03-2012, 02:15 PM   #9
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Thanks guys for the input. I will do the tests suggested above and update.

By the way, the SES is still on after cleaning the MAF 2nd time. I am waiting for my EDIABAS cable and will be able to diagnose this better..
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Old 01-03-2012, 03:25 PM   #10
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If you decide to purchase a new or used MAF, whatever you do DO NOT BUY an aftermarket MAF...ask me how I know!
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Old 01-03-2012, 04:14 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by milestone707 View Post
If you decide to purchase a new or used MAF, whatever you do DO NOT BUY an aftermarket MAF...ask me how I know!
I am not rich enough to spend money on non-OEM stuff lol!
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Old 01-06-2012, 05:28 PM   #12
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Ok, got my cable today, installed INPA, and scanned the car. Here's what my P0171 and P0174 codes look like on BMW software:

Quote:

E R R O R M E M O R Y R E P O R T
Date: 01/06/12 17:28:59
ECU: MS430DS0
JobStatus: OKAY
Variant: MS430DS0

RESULT: 2 errors in error memory !
-----------------------------------

228 lambda contol tolerance Bank 2
Error frequency : 114
Logistic counter: 40
N_32 2080.00 rpm
MAF 108.94 mg/stk
TCO 95.25 Grad C
LAM_MV_2 4.68 %
aufgetreten vor (rel. BZ) 169.30 h

Deviation rich
---
---
---
Error to relevant
Error debounce
Error currently not available
sporadic Error

Errorcode: E4 B1 72 28 41 14 BF 8C 82 E1
-------------------------------------------------------------

227 lambda contol tolerance Bank 1
Error frequency : 52
Logistic counter: 36

N_32 736.00 rpm
MAF 81.71 mg/stk
TCO 96.00 Grad C
LAM_MV_1 9.76 %
aufgetreten vor (rel. BZ) 124.10 h

Deviation rich
---
---
---
Error to relevant
Error debounce
Error currently not available
sporadic Error

Errorcode: E3 B1 34 24 17 0F C0 99 84 A5
Comments?
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Old 01-07-2012, 12:55 AM   #13
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how do you know there is no vaccum leaks? still sounds like there is a leak to me. smoke the system to be 100% sure. i really doubt its the maf. i do have a good known 330i maf if you need to buy one.
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Old 01-07-2012, 05:14 PM   #14
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I don't. Vacuum leaks might still be possible, and there is a good chance it is from CCV or one of its surrounding hoses. Here's a related thread and the OP recently solved his his 227/228 codes by changing his CCV system:

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=586262

I am posting my INPA readings there, too...

After using INPA, I've learned that BMW codes 227/228 (generic P0171&P1074 too lean codes as per OBD) might actually refer to a lean or rich AF condition (see my post above). Quite interesting IMO...
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Last edited by SeanC; 01-07-2012 at 05:17 PM.
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Old 01-11-2012, 10:53 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E46_330i_Stud View Post
Few tests

#1 While the car is idling unplug the MAF, does the idle change? Plug it back in, the motor should shake for a minute and it's a good possibility that it'll die completely. If the idle doesn't change then you've found your problem. Your MPG doesn't reflect a bad MAF but maybe if it's slowly giving out, which would explain the CEL off for 300 miles then back on.

#2 While it's idling still, with the MAF plugged back in, take off the oil cap. Does the idle change? Place you palm over the hole in the valve cover. Is there suction? Also, check the torque on all the valve cover bolts and inspect on the side near and under the fuel rail for minor leaks. I see leaks develop there way before anything shows on the half moon shapes or header side in some cases.

#3 With the car off pull the dipstick out and wipe the tube with a paper towel or rag. Put your mouth on it and seal your lips (that's what he said) and blow down the tube. If you hear the oil in the bottom of the pan bubbling a bit then there is no leak there.

If your car passes all those tests I'd say look into the hoses that go from the SAP to the back of the engine under the intake manifold and buy a COLD WEATHER CCV kit. I emphasize cold weather because it is a much better hose kit. Good luck!!
Im having a problem with my 323 (with aa supercharger). Im having very rough idle that comes to a stall and black smoke from my exhaust. I disconnected the MAF then idle comes to normal with no more black smoke? I replaced with a friend's MAF from his car and still got the rough idle and black smoke. Everything clears with the MAF unplugged. What does this mean?

Second, when I remove the oil cap, there is no suction. What does that mean?
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Old 01-11-2012, 11:26 AM   #16
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Lambda control tolerance errors on banks one and two indicate oxygen sensor errors.
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Old 01-11-2012, 11:44 AM   #17
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I would put money on the CCV. I dealt with the same issues on my 325ci after replacing an overheated motor. Those two codes, and after chasing vacuum leaks and cleaning my maf, even exchanging with my 328's maf, I looked into the ccv. That was the problem.
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Old 01-11-2012, 12:24 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ixtoxi View Post
Lambda control tolerance errors on banks one and two indicate oxygen sensor errors.
How so?
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Old 01-11-2012, 12:53 PM   #19
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Have you checked fuel pressure at the rail?
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Old 01-11-2012, 01:02 PM   #20
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Try replacing the 2 dipstick O rings and/or the Oil cap, rubber o-rings and oil cap gaskets might not be sealing correctly, cheap fix before you go down more expensive routes..
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