Xi Understeer Questions

Originally Posted by hcollins

I'm assuming that I am not the only person who has experienced this, but my 325xiT occasionally understeers on fast curves. It isn't very bad, although once I almost plowed directly into a curb. Luckily I was able to give it a bootful of power and make the turn thanks to the RWD biased system. However, I still don't like that I can't turn as fast as RWD. Can I do anything to help this? I'm thinking about adding a fender strut to help with the weight shift. Any ideas?

Possibly one of the dumbest posts I've read in a while. How did you even come up with all those "solutions?" Did you just think if you buy something for your car and install it, it will fix a problem that you aren't even sure about?

Seriously, go learn how to drive. If you can't afford to go karting, autocross, or track days, then buy a playstation and gran turismo 5 and beat the game. Or even reading a book about driving would help so much.

Originally Posted by hassmaschine

What makes it not relevant? Other than having a vc to control slip instead of abs/dsc, the layout and balance are very similar. I had many, many runs on street and race tires with chalk and pyrometers to determine my pressures and having it higher in the rear never worked - you just can't get as much heat in the rear tires as the front.

It's not relevant at all.

1) e30's weigh much less
2) different chassis
3) racing slicks vs. street tires
4) Hoosiers are the exception- most racing tires run much lower pressures
5) you're e30 wasn't stock obviously- any change to the suspension will change the optimal pressure
6) e30's run much lower pressures than e46 at the track and autocross
7) I can't believe I'm responding to such a stupid statement.

Optimal pressures will be closer to an e46 m3, than an e30 ix. So there's hundreds of people around here with experience more relevant than yours.

Originally Posted by mkodama

Possibly one of the dumbest posts I've read in a while. How did you even come up with all those "solutions?" Did you just think if you buy something for your car and install it, it will fix a problem that you aren't even sure about?

Seriously, go learn how to drive. If you can't afford to go karting, autocross, or track days, then buy a playstation and gran turismo 5 and beat the game. Or even reading a book about driving would help so much.

Do you really want to start this? I'm not naming a bunch of solutions for an unknown problem. I know that I made the mistake of getting AWD, but there are ways to get around it. Basically, I want an AWD Touring with the performance and handling of an M3. I know of some very expensive and effective solutions, but wanted to see what others say first. Sometimes the best solutions are the simplest. Money isn't the issue, I just like to do a little research before I buy stuff.
And speaking of racing, yes I have done some. I would like to get a normal thing going with it but safety regulations won't let me use my Honda S2000.
Also, if you are insinuating that the understeer is my own fault, I think you will find it's not the case. Go to another forum to criticize.

Originally Posted by hcollins

Do you really want to start this? I'm not naming a bunch of solutions for an unknown problem. I know that I made the mistake of getting AWD, but there are ways to get around it. Basically, I want an AWD Touring with the performance and handling of an M3. I know of some very expensive and effective solutions, but wanted to see what others say first. Sometimes the best solutions are the simplest. Money isn't the issue, I just like to do a little research before I buy stuff.
And speaking of racing, yes I have done some. I would like to get a normal thing going with it but safety regulations won't let me use my Honda S2000.
Also, if you are insinuating that the understeer is my own fault, I think you will find it's not the case. Go to another forum to criticize.

-Your 325xi touring will never handle like an M3. It's physics. I wish this rock in my backyard would magically turn to gold on its own, but that's not going to happen either. If "money isn't the issue" then why haven't you bought an M3?

-I'm not talking about street racing. You won't learn anything from that, other than how to crash.

-"safety regulations" won't let you use your S2000? That's a load of BS.

-Yes, understeer is your own fault. Flooring the gas will cause understeer, not mad tyte dorifto.

Originally Posted by mkodama

-Your 325xi touring will never handle like an M3. It's physics. I wish this rock in my backyard would magically turn to gold on its own, but that's not going to happen either. If "money isn't the issue" then why haven't you bought an M3?

-I'm not talking about street racing. You won't learn anything from that, other than how to crash.

-"safety regulations" won't let you use your S2000? That's a load of BS.

-Yes, understeer is your own fault. Flooring the gas will cause understeer, not mad tyte dorifto.

Usually need a cage or roll bar to run a convertible at the track.

You can make a wagon handle better than a stock m3...

Originally Posted by Kubica

Usually need a cage or roll bar to run a convertible at the track.

You can make a wagon handle better than a stock m3...

From experience, no. It's strongly advised, but not required. The only time it is required is if you are in the higher levels autocross or advanced trackday groups, etc... My first trackday was in a convertible, with one of the most strict trackday groups, and it was fine with them.

Originally Posted by mkodama

-Your 325xi touring will never handle like an M3. It's physics. I wish this rock in my backyard would magically turn to gold on its own, but that's not going to happen either. If "money isn't the issue" then why haven't you bought an M3?

-I'm not talking about street racing. You won't learn anything from that, other than how to crash.

-"safety regulations" won't let you use your S2000? That's a load of BS.

-Yes, understeer is your own fault. Flooring the gas will cause understeer, not mad tyte dorifto.

-I love wagons! That is why I didn't buy an M3! I figured, buy an M3 for X dollars, or buy a touring for 1/2 X dollars, then spend what I have saved on upgrades. BMW did make two M5 wagons, the E34 and E61, however they never sold them in the US. Also, they don't make AWD (which I love) M cars. So this way, I am getting exactly what I want. I have a list of about $20k worth of upgrades that I want to do. Unfortunately, I don't get to work on it as much as I want so it will take longer than buying an M3.

-I'm not talking about street racing either. The S2000 isn't a *****. I stick to OEM just like the Bimmer.

-Yes, safety regulations have rules. If I want to race with Porsche CCA or any other organization, I have to modify my car because the roll bars are not up to their standards. Apparently, they are not tall and strong enough. Also, I can't run with my top down.http://s1.E46Fanatics.com/forum/images/smilies/sad.gif

-Yes! Of course the understeer is my fault! *Sarcastic* Ever think about the fact that this is one of the biggest faults of AWD systems everywhere? For example, Audi RS4 is nothing like the M3 in the corners as a result of it's AWD.

Originally Posted by Kubica

Usually need a cage or roll bar to run a convertible at the track.

You can make a wagon handle better than a stock m3...

By the way, Kubica, thanks for your support!http://s1.E46Fanatics.com/forum/imag.../thumbsup2.gif

just noticed, E46 Fanatics for some reason replaced with asterisks, the word that describes Japanese cars which have been modified and are used for street racing. Can't say it apparently, but a clue is Uncle Ben's...

I have heard convertibles are tolerated more at the track on the west coast.

I'm not taking sides, but I believe me and mkodama are both BBS wheel fiends...so he can't be that bad.

Originally Posted by hcollins

-I love wagons! That is why I didn't buy an M3! I figured, buy an M3 for X dollars, or buy a touring for 1/2 X dollars, then spend what I have saved on upgrades. BMW did make two M5 wagons, the E34 and E61, however they never sold them in the US. Also, they don't make AWD (which I love) M cars. So this way, I am getting exactly what I want. I have a list of about $20k worth of upgrades that I want to do. Unfortunately, I don't get to work on it as much as I want so it will take longer than buying an M3.

-I'm not talking about street racing either. The S2000 isn't a *****. I stick to OEM just like the Bimmer.

-Yes, safety regulations have rules. If I want to race with Porsche CCA or any other organization, I have to modify my car because the roll bars are not up to their standards. Apparently, they are not tall and strong enough. Also, I can't run with my top down.http://s1.E46Fanatics.com/forum/images/smilies/sad.gif

-Yes! Of course the understeer is my fault! *Sarcastic* Ever think about the fact that this is one of the biggest faults of AWD systems everywhere? For example, Audi RS4 is nothing like the M3 in the corners as a result of it's AWD.

-Wagons are cool, nothing wrong with that. But if you want it to handle like an M3, you're really better off buying an M3. You could swap everything over from a crashed M3 if you wanted, but it'd cost just as much as buying a separate M3 when you add in all the labor and tools.

-False. You do not need to modify your car for track days. Directly from Porsche Club of America's website:

Open Cars: Any make of car delivered with factory installed roll over protection meets the minimum standards for PCA DE events. In these cars the soft-top must be in the up position or the hard top installed.

So no, you do not need to modify your S2000. Same applies to NASA and other track day groups. If you're making excuses about why you shouldn't go to a track day, that's pretty suggestive to me that you aren't interested in learning car control.

-The Audi RS4, along with most audis, has a way different drivetrain layout that puts the entire engine ahead of the front axle, which make the front of the car very resistant to turning. Much different than an E46, which handles very neutrally.

The general trend I've noticed is that anybody who complains about an E30/E36/E46 understeering on an internet forum usually usually wants to use that excuse to justify buying a mod, hasn't done a track day, and in general isn't interested in being a better driver/think they are incredible drivers already. So far this trend has not been broken.

Well, unfortunately I don't want to go across the country every time I race. It'd just be easier to get a dedicated track car, like an M3!
BBS Wheels! I am a fan too. I especially love the ones put onto the Subaru Impreza WRX and STI!

Originally Posted by hcollins

just noticed, E46 Fanatics for some reason replaced with asterisks, the word that describes Japanese cars which have been modified and are used for street racing. Can't say it apparently, but a clue is Uncle Ben's...

You learn fast. Yes, rïcer is a derogatory term around here.

Originally Posted by Kubica

I have heard convertibles are tolerated more at the track on the west coast.

I'm not taking sides, but I believe me and mkodama are both BBS wheel fiends...so he can't be that bad.

Yeah, Kubica likes real BBS so he's cool.

Originally Posted by hcollins

Well, unfortunately I don't want to go across the country every time I race. It'd just be easier to get a dedicated track car, like an M3!
BBS Wheels! I am a fan too. I especially love the ones put onto the Subaru Impreza WRX and STI!

I'm at a loss as to why you keep coming up with excuses not to go to a track day. Do you really not want to learn to be a better driver that badly?

No, you don't need to mod your S2000, and yes, you have a New Jersey Motorsports Park: http://www.njmp.com Not to mention plenty of karting and autocross.

Thanks for the compliment on wagons. I very recently got my S2000 and looked into track events. The organizers of the track told me that my car wouldn't meet the regulations of any of the clubs that raced there.
Also, I know all of the issues with the Audi's, that's why I don't drive one.
And, none of your last sentence is true, so allow me to break the trend.

Originally Posted by mkodama

I'm at a loss as to why you keep coming up with excuses not to go to a track day. Do you really not want to learn to be a better driver that badly?

No, you don't need to mod your S2000, and yes, you have a New Jersey Motorsports Park: http://www.njmp.com Not to mention plenty of karting and autocross.

-I have done track days elsewhere, and I want to continue doing them, but I want to get more involved. That is why I want to join a club.

-And yes, NJMP is where I was told that I couldn't race the S2000. They took one look at the car, and said no. However, my touring is approved!http://s1.E46Fanatics.com/forum/imag...es/excited.gif

I have done the karting as well, and I think it might be fun to try the Jetta TDI Challenge they have there.

Originally Posted by Kubica

It's not relevant at all.

1) e30's weigh much less
2) different chassis
3) racing slicks vs. street tires
4) Hoosiers are the exception- most racing tires run much lower pressures
5) you're e30 wasn't stock obviously- any change to the suspension will change the optimal pressure
6) e30's run much lower pressures than e46 at the track and autocross
7) I can't believe I'm responding to such a stupid statement.

Optimal pressures will be closer to an e46 m3, than an e30 ix. So there's hundreds of people around here with experience more relevant than yours.

I see two posting.

1) "much less"? about 200-300lbs. it's not *that* much. and more importantly, the weight distribution is the same (~52/48 f/r).
2) and? the front suspension is 99% identical. the E36/E46 have better rear suspension, yes. The E46 drivetrain borrows pretty much the exact same layout from the E30 and E34, except the TC has no locking or slip limiting ability.
3) maybe you noticed when I said "race and street tires". or maybe not.
4) hoosiers run higher absolute pressure, yes, but the balance of front/rear pressures remained the same regardless of what type of tire I've run (and it has been many).
5) it will but it would only make the need to bias towards the front worse. Much of the issue was lack of negative camber up front causing the tire to roll over excessively.
6) I don't know what E30 ix's you're talking about because there are probably only 2 in the entire country at one time doing serious track or autox. how many do you know of? also, I was talking about relative pressures, not absolute.
6) okay. I guess the reputation of E46fantatics is a given..

I actually agree with your statement of finding the right pressures with chalk or other methods. It seems you disagree with me on how it should be biased, or where to start, so that makes me an idiot. whatever.

^ I didn't say you were an idiot. I didn't like the suggestion to start with 50/38 based on e30 experience.

He should set the fronts low enough so they don't roll, and balance the car by setting the rear. Three hundred pounds is huge, yes I know a few ix's that are driven at the track, and setting fronts 10+ higher is not going to work well.

Originally Posted by hcollins

-I love wagons! That is why I didn't buy an M3! I figured, buy an M3 for X dollars, or buy a touring for 1/2 X dollars, then spend what I have saved on upgrades. BMW did make two M5 wagons, the E34 and E61, however they never sold them in the US. Also, they don't make AWD (which I love) M cars. So this way, I am getting exactly what I want. I have a list of about $20k worth of upgrades that I want to do. Unfortunately, I don't get to work on it as much as I want so it will take longer than buying an M3.

Whoa, whoa, whoa...hold on here. I think we are all missing the biggest part of this thread. You have a nine (9) year old 325xiT (which is a good car, I love wagons) that you want to drop $20k into mods on????

Dude, no offense but you are much better off just leaving it as is and finding a better track day car. Get another 330i or 330Ci or hell even an E36 M3. It'll be faster, easier to work on, and when you fvck it up you still have a daily driver in your wagon.

Sh!t dude, you could snag a well maintained 330i for ~$9k, drop in a supercharger for ~$4k, upgrade the suspension for ~$2k, and STILL be ahead in the game. AND, you'd have another car.

Originally Posted by SamDoe1

Whoa, whoa, whoa...hold on here. I think we are all missing the biggest part of this thread. You have a nine (9) year old 325xiT (which is a good car, I love wagons) that you want to drop $20k into mods on????

Dude, no offense but you are much better off just leaving it as is and finding a better track day car. Get another 330i or 330Ci or hell even an E36 M3. It'll be faster, easier to work on, and when you fvck it up you still have a daily driver in your wagon.

Sh!t dude, you could snag a well maintained 330i for ~$9k, drop in a supercharger for ~$4k, upgrade the suspension for ~$2k, and STILL be ahead in the game. AND, you'd have another car.

Don't worry, I know what you are saying. I haven't done more than $2k yet. By the way, September 5 it will be 10 years old!

Based on what you have said, I'm guessing you recommend a supercharger over a turbo? That is one of the things on my list. But I can't decide. I've read the supercharger is generally more expensive, but easier to install. The turbo is cheaper, but harder to install. The turbo seems to provide more power but things like the Active Autowerke supercharger seem like great kits. I don't really know which to choose. Any ideas?

http://www.bimmian.com/Active-Autowe...W-E46-3-Series