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///M3 Forum
The BMW E46 ///M3 is the M version E46 and puts out an amazing 333 HP and 262 lb-ft of torque at stock specs! There are an amazing amount of modifications for both the coupe and convertible models so read up and get started modifying your cars today!

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Old 10-15-2015, 08:39 PM   #1
Jesters M3
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Headers and the fumes...

I've ran American muscle cars for most of my life and they've always had headers and very little exhaust. I never had a problem with fumes with any of these cars unless there was an exhaust leak. I had a 1970 mustang with a boss 302 built to the hilt and never had the problem of smelling to rich unless my carbs weren't dialed in.
Also had a 1971 Camero z28 SS built above and beyond still never had this problem.
Built a TPI z-1 corvette engine for my fj40 with massive headers and exhaust that dumbed ahead of the rear wheels and still never smelt as rich.

But my 2002 M3 with headers and exhaust that dumps out the rear is absolutely intoxicating, I mean it literally smells like the tail pipe is routed right into the cab, especially if I roll the windows down.

So I'm asking why and how can I eliminate this with out installing cats.

But most of all what makes the difference between my older cars and the BMW?
If the system is sealed properly all the way to the tips shouldn't the exhaust fumes stay enclosed?

Thanks
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Old 10-15-2015, 09:42 PM   #2
Alan
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Are you running catless headers?
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Old 10-15-2015, 10:20 PM   #3
Jesters M3
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Yes JVT headers, but as I said I've never had a problem like this with all my other cars that ran catless headers. Hell back then they didn't even know what's catalyst were let alone use them.
Not even race cars would smell this bad, so why does our cars when we run catless headers?
It's almost as if theses cars are designed to NOT efficiently burn all the fuel or something.
Maybe it has something to do with the straight six instead of a V8 because even my 4.2 Audi with headers doesn't smell like this..
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Old 10-16-2015, 01:06 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesters M3 View Post
I've ran American muscle cars for most of my life and they've always had headers and very little exhaust. I never had a problem with fumes with any of these cars unless there was an exhaust leak. So I'm asking why and how can I eliminate this with out installing cats.
This sounds like you've already answered your own question. Whoever put them in (be it you, a shop, or a previous owner) likely didn't do it right and your exhaust is leaking.

My M3 unfortunately came with JVT headers and I would smell some strong exhaust fumes inside the car. Turned out whoever put them in didn't bother replacing any exhaust gaskets. They also didn't bother tightening the section one to section two connections, I tightened those down and the majority of my exhaust smell inside the car went away. A quick way to check, turn the car on and look underneath for water dripping from your connections.
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Old 10-16-2015, 03:54 PM   #5
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I ran mine without cats for a bit (like 15 miles ...). Yeah, it smelled a bit like a lawnmower standing right behind the car, but in the cabin it was fine. Something is wrong with your install. That said, there's no power gains to be had running a straight section 1 vs catted, assuming you're staying N/A.
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Old 10-16-2015, 04:39 PM   #6
Jesters M3
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I'm going to go through the whole exhaust and check all gaskets. I was assuming it had leaks but when I read up on the forums it seems as if everyone says its normal, smh.
I'm running a csl ecu engine and smg tune, resonate delete,gruppe exhaust, under pully kit, cai. I do have to change back to cats every two years though for emissions :/.
But it still smells excessively rich almost how my high HP cars smelt with aggressive cams at idle. I bought the car used and someone put the time into this car, is there a chance they upgraded the cams? If so How can tell without removing the cover, I will be checking on my valve clearances soon even though they make no noise at all, especially for such a high milage car. 160k and the engine and smg seem flawless.
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Old 10-16-2015, 06:47 PM   #7
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What are the Fuel Trims?

Possible swap of the O2 sensor wiring and if the O2 sensors were not direct fit with pre-terminated connectors, the O2 sensor polarity could also be backwards.

Suggest you read these threads -

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showpos...0&postcount=27

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showpos...0&postcount=26
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Solve your misfires, lean codes, rough idle - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=897616

Fuel pump failures - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=929501

Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temp, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose temp switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299
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Old 10-16-2015, 09:35 PM   #8
Jesters M3
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What are the Fuel Trims?

Possible swap of the O2 sensor wiring and if the O2 sensors were not direct fit with pre-terminated connectors, the O2 sensor polarity could also be backwards.

Suggest you read these threads -

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showpos...0&postcount=27

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showpos...0&postcount=26


Thank you, I'll read up on those links and let you know what the fuel trim is when I figure out how to use this diagnostic program BMCables.
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Old 10-16-2015, 11:00 PM   #9
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I have a different mechanical thought on your problem. "Sometimes" when an exhaust pipe exits to close to the body of the car, the driver will experience your problem. When the exhaust pipe is extended a few more inches away from the back of the car, magically the problem disappears.

As a Very simple experiment, extend both muffler tips with something as simple as cardboard rolled in the form of a tube & zip tie it in place. You'll of course know within minutes if this experiment worked, don't worry about the cardboard catching fire because you'll Never get it close to 451 F.




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Old 10-16-2015, 11:42 PM   #10
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Thank you, I'll read up on those links and let you know what the fuel trim is when I figure out how to use this diagnostic program BMCables.
BMCables software is likely the WRONG tool for the job. A generic OBDII scan tool that supports Live/Realtime data is far superior.

Get an OBDII smart phone/tablet App and interface, typically $30 or less. These Apps are usually best for driveability issues and they support Emission Readiness Monitor Status, Freeze Frame and Live/Realtime data. They are also great for Logging data for review after the car has been driven and can really help find unusual problems. Logging is very helpful for the less technical to pass date on for more advanced users to offer comments.

Android - OBDFusion formerly known as Touch Scan for approximately $5.00 and ELM327 OBDII to Bluetooth interface.

iProduct - OBD Fusion for $9.99 and ELM327 OBDII to Wifi interface.

Some people prefer to have an extension cable to keep the interface away from their feet.

Something like these cables are often of interested:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...A13I33IUTGJ9BK

http://www.amazon.com/OBDII-Extensio...Q9HPSGWZ2SB34Q

I usually suggest getting the OBDII interfaces from Amazon if you are located in the US/North America or in your specific Region/Country. Make sure you choose an interface that indicates that the order will be "Fulfilled by Amazon" otherwise you may be waiting for WEEKS for an interface to arrive from Asia. Ebay is another option, but pay attention where the interface will be shipped from, again weeks for an interface from Asia, so if you can wait and want to try to save some money, go for it, but if you need an interface soon, choose wisely.
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Solve your misfires, lean codes, rough idle - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=897616

Fuel pump failures - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=929501

Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temp, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose temp switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299
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Old 10-17-2015, 03:29 AM   #11
Jesters M3
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I have a OBDII reader with live data I think it's actron the best one I could get. BMcables I think is just a tool for simple electronics control like lights,mirrors etc.
I'm lifting it this weekend and checking for leaks, I think it's leaking right at the collector.
The fumes were really bad on the passenger side after I let it cool down for a few hours then started it up and looked around and under the passenger wheel well and underside.
It was burning my eyes just looking under the car behind right front tire.

When ever I checked it before it was already warmed up and not as noticeable.

I downloaded that iPhone app, now I just need to find a Bluetooth/OBDII cable to connect to my iPad/phone. The link you added sends me to a blank page for Amazon I'll copy and paste or search.
I'm finishing up the 330i and then putting the M3 on stands and replacing all the wheel bearings,cv boot, adjusting the suspension, inspecting all the undercarriage and any maintenance that needs to be addressed.
Oh and the steering angle sensor I guess you can just remove it clean the disc, infrared sensor and check solder connections and hope it works.
I read a lot of people having good luck with cleaning these units up rather then replacing them first.

Thank you
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Old 10-17-2015, 05:09 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesters M3 View Post
I have a OBDII reader with live data I think it's actron the best one I could get. BMcables I think is just a tool for simple electronics control like lights,mirrors etc.
I'm lifting it this weekend and checking for leaks, I think it's leaking right at the collector.
The fumes were really bad on the passenger side after I let it cool down for a few hours then started it up and looked around and under the passenger wheel well and underside.
It was burning my eyes just looking under the car behind right front tire.

When ever I checked it before it was already warmed up and not as noticeable.

I downloaded that iPhone app, now I just need to find a Bluetooth/OBDII cable to connect to my iPad/phone. The link you added sends me to a blank page for Amazon I'll copy and paste or search.
I'm finishing up the 330i and then putting the M3 on stands and replacing all the wheel bearings,cv boot, adjusting the suspension, inspecting all the undercarriage and any maintenance that needs to be addressed.
Oh and the steering angle sensor I guess you can just remove it clean the disc, infrared sensor and check solder connections and hope it works.
I read a lot of people having good luck with cleaning these units up rather then replacing them first.

Thank you
iProducts required an OBDII to WiFi interface. Make sure you understand they WILL NOT work with the Bluetooth interface.

You may want the 16 pin OBDII extension cable because the WiFi interface is a bit large and this way you can get this out of the way if your leg, especially important if you have a manual transmission in the car.
__________________
Solve your misfires, lean codes, rough idle - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=897616

Fuel pump failures - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=929501

Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temp, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose temp switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299
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Old 10-17-2015, 04:36 PM   #13
Jesters M3
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I ordered both wifi and cable, you're right there is no blue tooth compatible OBDII to apple products.

These should be here Monday it says.
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Old 10-23-2015, 04:29 AM   #14
Jesters M3
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Car is up in the air and One of the collector gaskets is shot but as I was replacing the idler pulley I noticed the water pump has some play to it feels like the inner bearing has a few thousandths of play. Looking to replace this before it grenades, these pumps are expensive unless one of the cheaper brands is proven.
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