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Old 09-14-2012, 02:10 PM   #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamdrivedrift View Post
You know, in a simplistic view, I'm also all for people being responsible of their own actions, i.e. you get fat, you pay for it. A libertarian society, if you will. The problem is, it will cause some pretty crazy social unrest from those who feel that they are entitled to healthcare, welfare, etc because it's true; many have dug pits for themselves, or were born into "pits", so them and their families cannot survive without those social niceties.

So you better bet if all healthcare systems decided that they will only be treating those who prove that they can pay (through insurance or sufficient personal assets), that there will be mobs of people doing crazy sh!t to try to get treated and that I will be carrying a gun on my person around the hospital and pretty much anywhere I go.
I can agree with much of this.. I feel the major issue faced by our nation is exactly the sense of entitlement you are referring to. People EXPECT to achieve (not expect to be able to achieve, two very different things) the wealth the see on television and other media outlets.. they then get upset when someone says "well if you want x, you need to do y". Kids coming out of college are the prime example of this. Unrealistic expectations and demands. The kids that screamed at state schools in California because their tuition were going to go up, go f*c yourselves..

On weight, the majority of americans that are overweight are a result of their lifestyle choices.. plain and simple.
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Old 09-14-2012, 02:20 PM   #162
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While I can agree that most people are ignorant of nutrition say on your level, there are no people that "KNOW" french fries and triple bacon cheeseburgers are good for them. Either you claim the majority of the population are mentally challenged (even those with brain disorders probably know lettuce is healthier than a cheesesteak) or you are just arguing for the sake of argument. People know what is healthy and what is not. The CHOICE however, is very different. Mcdonalds is cheaper than getting an organic salad with organic grilled chicken from the local deli. So yes, income has to do with the subject, but in the store, vegetables are not more expensive than prepared crap. I do the food shopping in my house, so I know how much things cost. A head of iceberg lettuce and raw whole chicken can be had for cheap. Tyson frozen chicken nuggets on the other hand are not. The reason why people feed this crap to their kids is laziness. Cooking for a family is hard work, and most don't want to do it. Hell, I don't know any women under the age of 35 today that know how to cook. Feminism FTW.
I agree. Ignorance can only get you so far. Unless you are mentally challenged, it doesn't take much to know that fast food and soda is bad for you. People are lazy. Hell, you can get a goddamn 2lb roast for $5, potatoes for $1, carrots and onions for another $2, and there ya go... you can either make a roast, or make beef stew that could LITERALLY feet a family of 4 for less than 10 and a couple hours of having the oven on.

It is laziness.

I will say tho... ignorance can definitely be the case when it comes to non-fast food restaurants. I won't like, i was taken back when i found out a burger from chili's is like... 1800 calories or something like that. People have the mindset of going to a restaurant before fast food... little do they know they are paying more for worse food for them. A plate full of pasta at an italian restaurant.. ha, well over 1000 calories, but the media doesn't target these types of establishments. Majority of restaurants across the country... like, 99%, are very very unhealthy. How do they get it to taste so good??? Butter, oil, and salt... This is what flies under the radar, and I think people need to be educated moreso on "decent" restaurants rather than telling them that McDonalds is bad lol.
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Old 09-14-2012, 02:22 PM   #163
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I agree. Ignorance can only get you so far. Unless you are mentally challenged, it doesn't take much to know that fast food and soda is bad for you. People are lazy. Hell, you can get a goddamn 2lb roast for $5, potatoes for $1, carrots and onions for another $2, and there ya go... you can either make a roast, or make beef stew that could LITERALLY feet a family of 4 for less than 10 and a couple hours of having the oven on.

It is laziness.

I will say tho... ignorance can definitely be the case when it comes to non-fast food restaurants. I won't like, i was taken back when i found out a burger from chili's is like... 1800 calories or something like that. People have the mindset of going to a restaurant before fast food... little do they know they are paying more for worse food for them. A plate full of pasta at an italian restaurant.. ha, well over 1000 calories, but the media doesn't target these types of establishments. Majority of restaurants across the country... like, 99%, are very very unhealthy. How do they get it to taste so good??? Butter, oil, and salt... This is what flies under the radar, and I think people need to be educated moreso on "decent" restaurants rather than telling them that McDonalds is bad lol.
Common sense dictates that eating out is not healthy. You want healthy food, make it yourself.
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Old 09-14-2012, 02:38 PM   #164
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I just thought of this soda ban. If you just cause fat people to stand up, walk to a soda machine, and then go sit back down, that's a lot of calories burnt right there. Lets say our fat person raises 100 kg of body weight .5 meters to get up to go to the soda machine.

F=Ma
F=100kg * 9.8 m/s^2
F=980N

W=Fd
W=980N * .5m
W=490 Joules = .117 food calories

It takes roughly the same amount to stand up as sitting down, so double that, and also the efficiency of the human body is about 20% so...

(.117*2)/.2=1.17 food calories

With obesity at 70% and 8,244,000 population in New York, .7*8,244,000*1.17, that's 6.75 Million additional food calories burnt per day refilling soda.
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Old 09-14-2012, 02:45 PM   #165
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I just thought of this soda ban. If you just cause fat people to stand up, walk to a soda machine, and then go sit back down, that's a lot of calories burnt right there. Lets say our fat person raises 100 kg of body weight .5 meters to get up to go to the soda machine.

F=Ma
F=100kg * 9.8 m/s^2
F=980N

W=Fd
W=980N * .5m
W=490 Joules = .117 food calories

It takes roughly the same amount to stand up as sitting down, so double that, and also the efficiency of the human body is about 20% so...

(.117*2)/.2=1.17 food calories

With obesity at 70% and 8,244,000 population in New York, .7*8,244,000*1.17, that's 6.75 Million additional food calories burnt per day refilling soda.
Nice! You must be an engineer :lol:
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Old 09-14-2012, 03:01 PM   #166
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I can agree with much of this.. I feel the major issue faced by our nation is exactly the sense of entitlement you are referring to. People EXPECT to achieve (not expect to be able to achieve, two very different things) the wealth the see on television and other media outlets.. they then get upset when someone says "well if you want x, you need to do y". Kids coming out of college are the prime example of this. Unrealistic expectations and demands. The kids that screamed at state schools in California because their tuition were going to go up, go f*c yourselves..

On weight, the majority of americans that are overweight are a result of their lifestyle choices.. plain and simple.
I think you and NFRS2k are talking about a different stratum of society than dwass and I are talking about, but nonetheless the sense of entitlement is still there, whether it be for healthcare (which some view as a human right) or wealth.

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Common sense dictates that eating out is not healthy. You want healthy food, make it yourself.
A lot of people lack common sense. I've met people who thought processed food was healthier than homecooked food...and they were being entirely serious. That blew my mind.
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Old 09-14-2012, 03:19 PM   #167
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Dreamdrivedrift, you bring up a good point... the notion of healthcare being a human right. Are we, in the United States, entitled to have the state ensure our well being? If so, is the state responsible for keeping us alive or keeping us healthy? If the former, what are the limits to keeping us alive? If you're in a car crash, have no recollection of who you are, nobody comes to claim you, are brain dead, and need to be hooked to a machine to be kept alive, should we do that? At what cost?
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Old 09-14-2012, 03:37 PM   #168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2000_328CI View Post
Dreamdrivedrift, you bring up a good point... the notion of healthcare being a human right. Are we, in the United States, entitled to have the state ensure our well being? If so, is the state responsible for keeping us alive or keeping us healthy? If the former, what are the limits to keeping us alive? If you're in a car crash, have no recollection of who you are, nobody comes to claim you, are brain dead, and need to be hooked to a machine to be kept alive, should we do that? At what cost?
I don't have time to respond to the whole thing right now but I'll say this:

The financial cost of keeping people healthy is less than the financial cost of simply keeping people alive.
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Old 09-14-2012, 03:39 PM   #169
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I think you and NFRS2k are talking about a different stratum of society than dwass and I are talking about, but nonetheless the sense of entitlement is still there, whether it be for healthcare (which some view as a human right) or wealth.



A lot of people lack common sense. I've met people who thought processed food was healthier than homecooked food...and they were being entirely serious. That blew my mind.
Then the same argument applies as to the crazy idiots that shoot up a school....you cannot legislate people out of stupidity.
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Old 09-14-2012, 03:47 PM   #170
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Then the same argument applies as to the crazy idiots that shoot up a school....you cannot legislate people out of stupidity.
I'm not arguing that you should? My discussion has already shifted away from the soda ban itself. I think the soda ban is stupid and will not work, it only generates discussion and commotion, which may in turn be beneficial.
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Old 09-14-2012, 04:15 PM   #171
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it's because fat is genetic
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Old 09-14-2012, 04:24 PM   #172
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I support this (in the sense that i find it ridiculous that "most" americans blame their size on genetics and even more ridiculous that people hate on others for the gender they chose to fool around with in the bedroom)
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Old 09-14-2012, 04:35 PM   #173
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i didn't read the whole thread but i don't understand this. most places that serve drinks this big offer refills. are refills illegal? and if they ban refills somehow... can't the person just order multiple beverages? so dumb.
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Old 09-14-2012, 04:36 PM   #174
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I support this (in the sense that i find it ridiculous that "most" americans blame their size on genetics and even more ridiculous that people hate on others for the gender they chose to fool around with in the bedroom)
heyyy now. fat people are born fat, don't you forget that! and people choose to be gay and ridiculed!
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Old 09-14-2012, 05:02 PM   #175
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Common sense dictates that eating out is not healthy. You want healthy food, make it yourself.
don't be that ignorant... be thankful that you are smart enough to realize that, however lets not walk blindly into this

the only reason why places like Panera Bread exists is because it appears to be healthier than the McDonalds across the street, and i would bet that most people in panera would use that as a form of reasoning all day long...

"Why aren't you having lunch at McDonald's today?"

- Thats fast food, everything is fried, and its unhealthy.

"Oh yea? That "healthy" Frontega Chicken sandwich has about 800 calories, almost 40g of fat, and 2200mg of Sodium. That is MORE than any crispy chicken sandwich from McDonalds, and equal to the Original Chicken Sandwich from BK"


Just add some earth tone colors to the interior and make people believe that what they are eating is good because you offer a fvcking apple, and everyone will choose with their eyes, not with their head.

If you think that people go out to eat at any restaurant and know that its as unhealthy, if not more unhealthy, than fast food... you sir, are definitely blinded.
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Old 09-14-2012, 06:35 PM   #176
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I wish I lived in an imaginary world where everything is black and white. I would guess its very comforting.
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I don't see what is ridiculous by robbing with a sword.A sword in one od the most lethal wepon !!!

It's more easy to kill with a sword than with a gun.

A sword is more frightening than toy-looking gun like glock.

robbing with a sword is a good thing
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Old 09-14-2012, 06:41 PM   #177
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All this talk is making me want my double whopper with bacon sooner... And I got a large drink too.

F the haters. It's supper time!
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Old 09-14-2012, 07:11 PM   #178
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Sweden, :lol: they have what 6 people in the country??? Are they mostly white? Do most of them work? Yea. Stupid and meaningless example. You might as well bring up health on the moon.
The more you talk the more ignorant you sound. I said understand their health care system - you obviously haven't bothered...
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Old 09-14-2012, 07:24 PM   #179
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JJ, show me an law limiting an individuals right to purchase a good in any quantity....a legal and an uncontrolled good.
I'm not JJ, but I can show you "a law limiting an individuals right to purchase a good (service) in any quantity... a legal and an uncontrolled good."

Recently, my town banned commercial tanning beds for people under 18 years of age. Why, because people under 18 years old are 75% more likely to develop skin cancer when they go tanning.

Also, you really should look at public health policies... If you feel the gov telling you what you cant have it "wrong", then how is the gov telling you what you must have any different. Ever use iodized table salt?
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Old 09-14-2012, 07:41 PM   #180
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I'm not JJ, but I can show you "a law limiting an individuals right to purchase a good (service) in any quantity... a legal and an uncontrolled good."

Recently, my town banned commercial tanning beds for people under 18 years of age. Why, because people under 18 years old are 75% more likely to develop skin cancer when they go tanning.

Also, you really should look at public health policies... If you feel the gov telling you what you cant have it "wrong", then how is the gov telling you what you must have any different. Ever use iodized table salt?
So they are regulating it like alcohol, age based. I'm not sure about the legality of this regulation, but lets say it's legit....can a person over 18 buy as many as they like?
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