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Old 06-19-2011, 10:41 PM   #1
a_keivan
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should I replace my power steering pump?

So I have the common symptoms, when the car is not moving, the wheel is extremely difficult to turn and when you turn it a 'moaning' and raddling noise can b heard...


I watched this video on this website:

http://www.bmpdesign.com/technical/p...g_problems.php

and it gives you 2 tests to see if power steering pump is gone:
1. lower the fluid, and see if fluid is circulating (in my case fluid was steady and not circulating)

2. take the belt off and see if the you can pull on the pully since the shaft must be broken (in my case first of all somehow my car already has the LF30 pump which apparently doesn't have the common problem, and the shaft inside it is pretty tight and I couldn't pull it out)

so now i'm wondering physically my pump looks fine, could it still be broken?!? What else besides the pump itself could go wrong? or is it always the pump that fails?!?

last thing I want is spending hundreds of dollars on a pump and not have it solve my problem!!

p.s. I have attached a photo from the bottom of my car and seems like my power steering hose is leaky?!? could that by itself be the problem? I checked the fluid level tho and I do have enough fluid
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Old 06-19-2011, 11:42 PM   #2
lazyacevw
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I can comment on the hoses... they start to weep over time and should be replaced. Some of the upper hoses will actually chip away with your fingernail.

I have theory but I cant confirm it until I get home to replace the reservoir. There is a small, built in filter in the bottom of the reservoir that may get clogged causing the pump to run a little dry. That's what I think is going on with my car. It's one of the least expensive pieces to replace so it's worth a shot. Plus, if you get a new pump, you will void the warranty on the new pump if you do not replace the reservoir at the same time.

Worth a shot while you are already in there replacing hoses.
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Old 06-20-2011, 01:02 AM   #3
a_keivan
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your theory sounds reasonable!! I think I will start by replacing the hose and reservoir and see how it goes and leave the pump to last resort!! thx

p.s. lemme know how it goes with your car? whether you got it fixed with replacing the reservoir.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lazyacevw View Post
I can comment on the hoses... they start to weep over time and should be replaced. Some of the upper hoses will actually chip away with your fingernail.

I have theory but I cant confirm it until I get home to replace the reservoir. There is a small, built in filter in the bottom of the reservoir that may get clogged causing the pump to run a little dry. That's what I think is going on with my car. It's one of the least expensive pieces to replace so it's worth a shot. Plus, if you get a new pump, you will void the warranty on the new pump if you do not replace the reservoir at the same time.

Worth a shot while you are already in there replacing hoses.

Last edited by a_keivan; 06-20-2011 at 01:03 AM.
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Old 06-20-2011, 03:16 AM   #4
lazyacevw
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No problem, I will be back with my car on the 2nd or so. I'm out of the country on vacation. You probably will have all of your parts in by the time I get back but I will let you know then anyways.

Good luck!
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Old 06-20-2011, 04:40 AM   #5
Andy2108
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replacing the hoses sounds like a good place to start.

Friend had a similar problem on an X5 with a M52B30 (330 engine)
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Old 06-21-2011, 12:45 AM   #6
MichaelMull51
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My 2002 325i made similar groans. I replaced the suction or feed hose (reservoir to LF-30 PS Pump) and the High Pressure Hose from the PS pump to the steering rack. I cleaned the reservoir and filter (Calgary BMW dealer says they don't replace the reservoirs - they just clean them) and later replaced the reservoir. Still makes groaning or labouring sound when steering wheel is turned. Told I need a new pump. Dealers and shops dont test PS system pressure or test PS Pump - they just replace them. I noted that when belt tension was relaxed, the power steering pump shaft showed no loose play, but rather spun freely and also pumped fluid out and back to the ps reservoir - with me manually rotating the pump pulley. Not impressed with the lifetime fluids in BMW. Instead of replacing fluids, BMW has you replace the whole system at 15 times the price - exce[t re the lifetme transmission fluid. THey don't tell you how short the lifetime is at which point you need a $7500 transmission.
RE the PS Pump - mine is still noisy - are CARDONE Rebuilts the best deal? I'm looking for a rebuilt LF-30 with 3 yr or lifetime warranty. Where isbest deal on PS Pumps in Canada?
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Old 06-21-2011, 12:55 AM   #7
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I'd try to suction out the old ATF in the PS reservoir and replace with new Redline D4 as a step 1.
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Old 06-21-2011, 06:51 AM   #8
Broach><330
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Try blowing all the crap out of the hoses with an air compressor before you get a new pump. In some cases they just get clogged up.
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Old 06-21-2011, 01:21 PM   #9
MichaelMull51
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Broach330 has good idea re using air compressor to clear the lines if it appears that pump is starved. I note that there is a filter (really just a 100 micron screen in the reservoir (that can be reversed flushed if you don't want to by a new reservoir for $12 in the US or $45 in Canada) and that there is also a small orificed one way valve or restrictor in the High pressure hose - EITHER of which can be obstructed by oxidized ATF or rubber powder from disintegrating hoses) and thereby starve the pump. I would have resorted to that (blowing out hoses with compressed air) but when I drained and flushed the system, and replaced suction and HP hoses, I was getting good flow of fresh clean red ATF fluid back to the reservoir even when I manually turrned tor rotated clockwise the LUK LF-30 PSP (pump) pulley. i was getting good volume moved by the old pump but no idea as to the pressure. Buttoned up and ran system but still had pump noise. Possible pressure regulator in the pump is problem or pump vanes just worn. May just remove and rebuild the pump and buy a rebuilt or used pump in the interim. Still can't believe how much dealers want to replace PS system that is virtually maintenance free according to BMW (just check and maintain PS fluid level). Think it is disgraceful the way BMW mislead its customers re lifetime fluids!
Like my Triumph TR7 - great cars and driving experience if you can do maintenance yourself.
Let me know whatever works for you. These 3 series cars are a real treat to drive when they are running well and quiet.
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Old 06-21-2011, 01:35 PM   #10
MichaelMull51
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The ZF (they make the PS reservoirs) has a website with detailed flushing procedure. You can replace the reservoir, or just flush it clean with ATF fluid or Solvent. ZF says to save the flushed or retrieved fluid, filter it through coffee filter paper and look for black rubber sediment - which indicates that the hoses are failing (usually the suction hose - from the reservoir to the PS Pump - and the High pressure hose, form the pump to the rack.)
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Old 06-21-2011, 02:16 PM   #11
NoVaDreier
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Here's a good source for the PS fluid reservoir.
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Old 07-01-2011, 09:38 PM   #12
MichaelMull51
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I get good flow circulation of clean ATF in the PS reservoir, but still have the pump groan. There was some black sediment in the reservoir and in fluid drained at M14 and M 16 banjo bolts. When I pulled the HP hose out of connector to pump with 17 mm flare wrench and then removed connector with 27mm socket, the flow control/pressure relief valve and free came out quite cleanly easily, the spring was quite strong. I noticed in the top of the barrel was the HP port from the pump to the valve. I assume a similar relief port resides further back in the barrel to be opened up if the spring is compressed by excess fluid pressure. That far end of the barrel had lots of dirty black sediment (from deteriorated interior of the suction/feed hose). Clean that out and flushed that area before reinstalling control valve. Control valve slid freely but rellef orifice in the relie/control valve needed flush. No varnish whatsoever was apparent. Did not do high pressure test yet - but I wonder if pump vanes in the LF-30 #32416756582 might be stuck so that I do not have enough pressure to smoothly operate the rack & pinion in the 2002 325i. I'd be surprised if 10 or 12 vanes got stuck since fluid levels were always maintained and since there was absolutely no metal in the PS fluid at M14 or M16 nor in the reservoir nor in the old HP hose (filter old ATF (PS) through coffee filter paper (so that why morning coffee now has a funny taste!) . Can filter in the PS reservoir be opened up - dealer's practice it to just flush them clean.
Has anyone opened up Reservoir or the pump or got schematic or parts diagram. Can I get a rebuild kit (seals) for the pump? Or when lefetime fluids go, do you just wait 5-10 days for parts and give you wallet to BMW. I'd hate to drive to cottage or mountains or cross-country and get way-layed and held for ransom because of BMW's policies, representations and pricing.
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Old 07-01-2011, 10:05 PM   #13
new//M3fan
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Mines doing the same thing. I'll just drive it until it blows up. And I have a 28 inch serpentine belt to bypass the PS pump in an emergency and all the tools needed at all times 24/7.
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Old 07-02-2011, 11:04 AM   #14
MichaelMull51
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BMP video referred to above is OK for situation where one has LF-20 pump with the inadequate thin pulley shaft and housing which appear to be designed and fabricated so as to fail. Video says to check for circulation or flow in the reservoir and says what to do if you have no flow and the pump shaft is broken. It says NOTHING WHATSOEVER about what to do if there is flow in the reservoir, if the pump shaft is not broken. Says little about the more robust LF-30. Just says replace reservoir (and filter within) and replace the pump. If you have flow, the next issue is pressure. Does BMP plan to finish the diagnosis video or to just leave things hanging?
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Old 07-05-2011, 06:11 AM   #15
lazyacevw
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Red face

Whelp, I just replaced the reservoir, banjo bolt (with check valve) and the return hose. Apparently I had a lapse in judgement when I ordered the parts and forgot the other hoses!

Anyways, I took a peek inside the intake hose and it looked smooth, dropped in the new parts, flushed out the fluids, filled it back up and gave it a try. Still have an intermittant "can of marbles" sound from the LF-30. The old banjo bolt with the check valve in it looked clean and clear.

There was quite a bit of sediment in the filter. The filter has more surface area than I expected however. I went ahead and cracked open the old reservoir with a hammer and a chisle for some pictures.



sorry about the lighting!!

Can anyone confirm the high pressure hose (pump to rack) has a small orifice in it? I just wan't to make clear on what MichaelMull51 said and make sure he wasn't talking about the banjo bolt with the check valve in it. At $106.00 a piece, I don't feel like cutting the hose apart to find out. Perhaps someone has access to a junk yard?

Looks like my next move is to get a new LF-30 (and hoses) and do the whole process again!
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Old 07-05-2011, 09:58 AM   #16
MichaelMull51
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Great job with the photos lazyacevw. Thanks - I did not open mine. I would simply flush mine and only get new one if reservoir housing leaked, unless you can get one for $12-15 in USA as opposed to $45-80 in Canada.
DON'T tear your HP (high pressure) hose apart. The orifice at the rack end of the hp hose is at the M14 banjo bolt and is probably part of the banjo bolt, in fact I just now seem to recall seeing banjo bolt prices at about $3 for one and about $8 for the other which I suspect was the M14 banjo bolt WITH the check valve (or "restrictor") built into such banjo bolt. You sould appear correct that the restrictor is NOT in the hp hose.

I have good flow through the reservoir now but still have that labouring sound from the LF-30 PSP which in my Jan 2002 325i is model 32416756582. I took photos of the flow control valve (pressure relief valve) and will try to post in next couple of days. I did not yet do pressure test to measure pressure generated by PSP. The valve itself was not sticky or varnished although the teeny orifice in the small end of the aluminun cone may have been partially obstructed. I recall ZF website said black sediment is deteriorated hoses (hp and suction hoses that connect to psp) but if you have metal in the fluid, likely that metal wear in the pump vanes. Unless very limited fine metal particles from normal wear, pump would need repair, renewal or replacement. Such wear shouldn't happen unless pump starved for atf fluid. My level were never low, found no metal particles -so can only believe that vanes might not freely move up and down in the pump rotor. Perplexing. I am trying seafoam ATF additive which helps dissolve any varnish to free up any clogged or stick valves. If it becomes quiet, and fluid in reservoir gets dirty, I wish flush the whole system and filter and renew with clean ATF. Will try to post photos of flow control valve (pressure relief valve) found inside the psp when you remove the hphose (with 17mm flare wrench) and the big connector with 27mm socket.
Did you check your flow control valve for varnish? Mine had NONE ... only some black sediment from the hoses was found on the spring side of the flow control valve.
Thanks again for posting your reservoir photos. There is none of such info in my Bentley Manual.
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Old 07-05-2011, 10:05 AM   #17
MichaelMull51
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layacevw - FYI the only problem or softness I noted was in the low pressure hoses where they attach to the reservoir. I can see no problem with the HP hose so I would probably just flush it out and continue to use it. Suction hose is No 1 Candidate to replace if you have lots of black sediment from the hoses. Perhaps that sediment obstructs the movement of the pump vanes. If I pull the PSP, I will take it apart to clean and check especially the vanes. I would love to get a rebuild kit as thes pumps appear to be very simple and rugged. I wouldn't be surprised if you could take it apart, clean it, reassemble and reinstall.
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Old 07-07-2011, 04:04 PM   #18
a_keivan
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Updateee!!!!!!!

So I finally got my parts in and I replaced the steering rack that was leaking and I drained all the old dirty fluid and used a compressor to clean the whole system using pressured air!! I also replaced my fluid reservoir and used brand new red line D4 fluid!!

The steering hardness while cars not moving improved dramatically for the first day but I still had the raddling noise!! the second day everything was back to what it was before and the steering is just as hard and noisy as it was before!!

One thing I also noticed was the high pressure hose, the one that takes the fluid back to the reservor had a small crack on it, but doesn't seem to leak, so I dont think this would be the problem?!?

I think what I'm gonno do next is try to take my LF30 pump apart?!? perhaps rebuild it assuming it's not too difficult and if that also fails I guess I have no choise to replace it?!?

Last edited by a_keivan; 07-07-2011 at 04:06 PM.
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Old 07-09-2011, 04:54 AM   #19
lazyacevw
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The crack on the return hose shouldn't cause any of the noise but you should replace it anyway so you won't have to worry about it exploding and distroying all the stuff you just replaced! Good choice on the Redline, I'm going to get the same when I get back to the states.

Looks like your pump is the last thing left. If you think you can rebuild it, I say go for it but I'm pretty sure you won't be able to get any replacement parts for it. If you do find any parts... let us know!

I didn't know that Seafoam even made a cleaner for trans/powersteering.
http://www.seafoamsales.com/trans-tune.html
Surprisingly, I found some at the store and gave it a try. It didn't fix my rattle but it changed the sound of it. Not better or worse, just different. It will remove varnish but it wont remove rubber chunks. My next step is to buy a new pump. It will probably be your next step as well.

When I get my new pump, I will take the old one apart and take a peek inside for some pictures. I may even use my nice camera. I will start a new thread when I get it done (next 30 days or so).

Good luck!
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Old 07-09-2011, 12:27 PM   #20
MichaelMull51
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Great ideas. Seafoam should dissolve the varnish so that better flow is restored and stick parts ar freed, but all that crap will end up in the fluid or in the reservoir filter. After the seafoam or other ATF cleaner solvent has done its work, good time to flush system, and then renew any parts and fluid.
Where did anyone get their LF-30 type pumps - rebuilt LUK or aftermarket new? What is best value? What problems noted in old PSPumps. What LUK label on your pump ... does Part no. end in 582 like mine or 965? Is pump the same and just the bracket different. My 2002 325i has the LF-30 wwith part no ending in 582. I'm thinking of A1carddone rebuilt, with 3byr warranty.
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