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Old 10-25-2012, 10:54 PM   #21
E46Cherry
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I've decided it's the tires. And no I wasn't driving 90mph in the heavy rain. I said I slowed down. I haven't done track work but honestly if it's so difficult to drive an m3 in the heavy rain, and I was able to do it for about 2 hours with the DSC off, I guess I'm not that bad of a driver right? But yeah I need some tires. Idk if it makes matters worse but they are also run flats. What tires are you guys riding on?
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Old 10-25-2012, 10:57 PM   #22
fiveightandten
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I've decided it's the tires. And no I wasn't driving 90mph in the heavy rain. I said I slowed down. I haven't done track work but honestly if it's so difficult to drive an m3 in the heavy rain, and I was able to do it for about 2 hours with the DSC off, I guess I'm not that bad of a driver right? But yeah I need some tires. Idk if it makes matters worse but they are also run flats. What tires are you guys riding on?
That attitude is going to lead to an accident if you're not careful.

If you *guess* you know how to drive...you don't know how to drive. If you *think* you know how to drive...you don't know how to drive. Hell, I know how to drive, and I still don't know how to drive. You dig? Be humble, and be safe.
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Old 10-25-2012, 11:02 PM   #23
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Op Thinks hes a good driver cause he drove in the rain for 2 hours without DSC off and didnt crash? LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL
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Old 10-25-2012, 11:04 PM   #24
E46Cherry
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That attitude is going to lead to an accident if you're not careful.

If you *guess* you know how to drive...you don't know how to drive. If you *think* you know how to drive...you don't know how to drive. Hell, I know how to drive, and I still don't know how to drive. You dig? Be humble, and be safe.
I didn't mean to sound cocky about it. Everyone is just saying how dumb it was to turn the dsc off in heavy rain and asking if I've done track driving before. Making it sound like I can't handle myself in situations such as today. I just felt the car swerving and losing control so I decided to troubleshoot and make sense of what was causing it all so I thought DSC could have been it. But I wasn't going to get out of the car and take a look around in the middle of the highway.

Thanks for all the feedback.
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Old 10-25-2012, 11:08 PM   #25
E46Cherry
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Op Thinks hes a good driver cause he drove in the rain for 2 hours without DSC off and didnt crash? LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL
Read the responses. I was just replying to what someone said. Maybe I'm a horrible driver. I'm just saying I didn't run into a pole with DSC off like the other reply's said.
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Old 10-25-2012, 11:29 PM   #26
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Op unless you have this plate your not allowed to turn it off
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Old 10-25-2012, 11:31 PM   #27
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I should! Hahah
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Old 10-25-2012, 11:33 PM   #28
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I didn't mean to sound cocky about it. Everyone is just saying how dumb it was to turn the dsc off in heavy rain and asking if I've done track driving before. Making it sound like I can't handle myself in situations such as today. I just felt the car swerving and losing control so I decided to troubleshoot and make sense of what was causing it all so I thought DSC could have been it. But I wasn't going to get out of the car and take a look around in the middle of the highway.

Thanks for all the feedback.
Understood.

You're in control of the car until you're not. It's as simple as that.

Personally, I can't say why you felt the car feeling unsettled. It could have been hydroplaning, your tires could be worn too low for driving in the wet, it could be worn suspension components, you could've been going too fast. We weren't there, so it's very tough to say definitively.

What I CAN say is that unless you can honestly say you are intimately familiar with controlling the car and breaking traction in the wet, leave the system on. With proper tires and the DSC on, you have a pretty low chance of getting into trouble as long as you don't do anything stupid. DSC doesn't *cause* the car to to swerve and loose control...it *prevents* it.

The car can be unpredictable in the rain. It's not like driving hard on dry pavement. The tires don't grip on wet pavement enough to compression the suspension or make the body roll like it does when its dry. Therefore it gives up traction in a different manner that's much less gradual. DSC will intervene as needed and will keep it out of trouble the majority of the time.

Next time it rains, take the car into a big empty parking like. Just try and get it to spin out with DSC on. It won't happen.
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Old 10-25-2012, 11:43 PM   #29
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the point is, if the dsc kicks in it either just saved your life, or you're driving too hard. or, like you said, your tires are worn.
many of us drive cars without any type of stability control. you just have to learn how to take it easy. you shouldn't ever feel the car kick out or swerve itself.
get new tires and take it easy. i can't recommend pilot super sports enough for wet and dry traction. they're about as good as it gets for street driving.
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Old 10-26-2012, 12:45 AM   #30
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Takes a special kind of retard to intentionally disable one of the most useful aids in keeping your ass out of a ditch or wrapped around a tree.
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Old 10-26-2012, 12:49 AM   #31
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Takes a special kind of retard to intentionally disable one of the most useful aids in keeping your ass out of a ditch or wrapped around a tree.
Hehe. So true. I have to admit I've done it, but it wasn't a good decision.

My last car was AWD and in heavy rain I could spin all 4 with DSC off.

Best to save that for dry pavement or the track.
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Old 10-26-2012, 12:58 AM   #32
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lol my 325 dont need no fancy DCS because it dont got no power LAWL
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Old 10-26-2012, 01:02 AM   #33
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Turned it off?: LOL
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Old 10-26-2012, 01:10 AM   #34
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I had mine on all the time on my E46, sun, rain or snow. Worked great for me. Now....Porsche has nothing but me to control it, no PSM (Pretty much the same thing as BMW DSC), hence...I do not drive it much in the snow or heavy rain. Be lucky you have it. Wish it was on my 911 since I live in Colorado.

Leave it on.
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Old 10-26-2012, 01:50 AM   #35
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I turn it off a lot....
Spirited driving = OFF
track =OFF
ditch =OFF chances are it already was off before I ended up in it
burnout time= OFF
snow = OFF its a lot more predictable
stuck in snow= OFF so i can have some wheel spin when i am trying to get out.
Heavy ran= Halve way off because I have summer tires and when cold and wet they got no grip and when the DSC jerks them around it makes things even worse

On another hand, my 17 year old brother in his e90 will get punched in the face id he goes anywhere near that button.
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Old 10-26-2012, 04:20 AM   #36
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lol my 325 dont need no fancy DCS
what's DCS?
Dummy Control System?
Dude Can't Swerve?
Drive Car Safely?
Don't Cause Spin-outs?
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Old 10-26-2012, 05:38 AM   #37
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When it's raining fairly hard where water seems to collect on the roads, I find it much easier to drive with the DSC off.
You are driving in water that has collected on the road. Here is the deal, you are not driving on wet pavement, you are driving on water. Once the water that has collected on the road is probably about 1/3 to 1/2 the depth of your tread, you are going to hydroplane and then start to PLOW water. It really does not matter how new your tires are or how deep the tire tread is.

Once you start to PLOW water you will feel that steering wheel pull hard to the side that is plowing the most. You will also feel the car slow down quickly when this happens.

All you have to do is watch cars in front of you while they drive through these same puddles. If there is water shooting up in the air, as badly as high as their car, you have a VERY dangerous situation and you need to slow down immediately and if you know the road, you can see the puddles and there is no traffic behind you try to avoid the puddle(s).

I have a number of roads in my area that have a lot of water pool due to bad drainage and I avoid the specific lane when the is even normal rain and if I forget to avoid the lane, I change lanes or mover over to the right about 1/2 a car width if nobody is behind me.

I am guessing you are fairly young and do not have a lot of experience driving.

You really need to adjust your driving to the road conditions ALL the time, either for rain, black ice, sleet, snow, ice, wind, wet leaves, road surface condition or even traffic. If you do not learn this, you will be speaking to your insurance company very soon and may no longer have a M3!
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Old 10-26-2012, 05:50 AM   #38
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You are driving in water that has collected on the road. Here is the deal, you are not driving on wet pavement, you are driving on water. Once the water that has collected on the road is probably about 1/3 to 1/2 the depth of your tread, you are going to hydroplane and then start to PLOW water. It really does not matter how new your tires are or how deep the tire tread is.

Once you start to PLOW water you will feel that steering wheel pull hard to the side that is plowing the most. You will also feel the car slow down quickly when this happens.

All you have to do is watch cars in front of you while they drive through these same puddles. If there is water shooting up in the air, as badly as high as their car, you have a VERY dangerous situation and you need to slow down immediately and if you know the road, you can see the puddles and there is no traffic behind you try to avoid the puddle(s).

I have a number of roads in my area that have a lot of water pool due to bad drainage and I avoid the specific lane when the is even normal rain and if I forget to avoid the lane, I change lanes or mover over to the right about 1/2 a car width if nobody is behind me.

I am guessing you are fairly young and do not have a lot of experience driving.

You really need to adjust your driving to the road conditions ALL the time, either for rain, black ice, sleet, snow, ice, wind, wet leaves, road surface condition or even traffic. If you do not learn this, you will be speaking to your insurance company very soon and may no longer have a M3!
Good point regarding hydroplaning. Unfortunately most drivers will not appreciate the dangers until they experience it. Hopefully it will not be a costly lesson.
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Old 10-26-2012, 06:15 AM   #39
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Simple. The goal is to drive so that you *don't* make the DSC go on.
DSC is not like the traction control in some thing like a 600 bhp AMG Mercedes that's constantly keeping the rear wheels in check even on dry pavement, where there are two or three incremental "sports" settings between "Nanny" and "Off."
The reason there's an off button for the DSC is a) track days b) special low speed situations like mud and very deep snow where you can get the car moving without wheelspin.
By the time the DSC is ready to engage, you're dangerously close to an accident. And when it does kick in, it's supposed to feel "worse," just like an ABS stop.
In six years of owning my E46, the DSC never engaged at a speed of over 10 mph. The handful of times it kicked in was in a straight line start on a) snow b) wet leaves c) a bit--or more--too much enthusiasm in a tire chirping start. And before you accuse me of driving like your grandma, I'll note that I've driven formula cars at racing school, and a week ago today was driving a Mercedes SLS on an unrestricted autobahn at speeds that would have gotten me arrested and held without bail in the U.S. (Yes, it was fun.)
So you're really lucky you started this thread.
All the things that people said about wet weather driving is true in spades. However much traction you *think* you have, you and those tiny contact patches have actually got much less.
You were probably one twitch of the steering wheel, or one unpredictable Chicagoland driver, away from a horrendous accident that not only writes your car off, but probably puts you and a few other people in the hospital.
Slow.The Funk. Down.

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Old 10-26-2012, 07:04 AM   #40
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Like everyone has said, if you were causing the DSC to activate in the rain, then you are probably driving way too fast. I rarely, if ever, see my DSC turn on while I'm driving in dry or wet conditions. The only time it comes on is occassionally off the start in the rain if I accidently give it a bit too much gas on a hill or something.

You have to realize the the DSC is designed to keep your car "stable". I mean that in a mathematical sense. You car is making hundreds of measurements and estimations every second based on wheel speeds, yaw/pitch/roll rates, lateral/longitudinal accelerations, and steering angle. The DSC's goal is to keep your car stable and controllable. You can have an unstable car that is controllable (oversteering) and a stable car that is uncontrollable (understeering) or any other combination (these are the two it tries to avoid the most). It keeps the car stable and controllable.

Driving in wet/slippery conditions is where the DSC will really save you. It can save you in accelerating, braking, and turning. For a braking example, lets say your right wheels hydroplane because of a puddle in the shoulder of the road. Your reaction may be to apply the brakes. If you don't have DSC on, your car is going to apply equal braking b/w left and right. This will send you into an uncontrollable situation (we call this a "split mu" surface condition). With DSC, the car will detect the unwanted yaw rate (given the 0 steering angle) and will proportion the brakes correctly b/w the sides and will keep you controllable and stable. Anyway, I'm writing too much because this is one of my favorite subjects (dynamics and control systems). I'll stop here.

How deep are your tread grooves right now?

Last edited by WDE46; 10-26-2012 at 07:15 AM.
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