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Old 10-26-2012, 10:59 AM   #61
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You people need to read what the OP said. Also you need to understand his problem. You guys all sound like fools for continuing to berate the OP for something he didn't do. He is driving his car in the rain in a straight line in a responsible manner and DSC is still intervening. He wants to know why. You assholes are so quick to call someone stupid. It's pretty hilarious. Almost like you all think your knowledge is infallible or something. You've all made mistakes and done stupid things. Stop being such ****ing assholes. Seriously. This kind of **** is hurting the community. It gives a bad image to all of us when you treat people who ask questions like absolute morons and yourselves as gods.
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Old 10-26-2012, 11:03 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by Cobra View Post
relax man, i know that the DCS post was in regards to the porsche, i didn't feel like double quoting, it was understood who i was talking to. 50mph in the heavy rain, yet you still turned DSC off, without knowing the conditions of your tires. for someone who does 80-90mph on the regular, it's unlikely that they drive as safe as possible when it's raining. on top of that, you don't understand how DSC works, as pointed out by gentlemen above this post.
understood. it just didn't come off like that.

and yes it's my first BMW. So I'm not at the least informed enough on how DSC works. It's just unfortunate that when new members post on forums such as these, the older members seem to generalize and assume new members are young 17 year olds that don't know any better and that unfortunately is just not the case sometimes.
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Old 10-26-2012, 11:13 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by E46Cherry View Post
The last sentence? Yeah like I said on a previos post, I didn't know what DSC was, aside from what it stood for. In my experience last night AND given the tire treads I have, it just seemed to handle better and felt like a safer drive. But maybe it was just the luck of the draw.
DSC can only work if you have grip. So yes if your tires are bald, then its capabilities are greatly reduced. DSC is one of those things i've always been extremely intrigued by and i've (for fun) put it through many different scenarios and tests. it's a very very very intelligent and fast-acting system if you pay close attention to what its doing. it's saved my arse in many every day situations in the wet. if not for the dsc light, a lot of times, i wouldn't even know it has intervened. some times it's extremely smooth. if you want to raise the threshold for intervention, you can tap the dsc button once (though i'm not 100% sure the M3 works like the non-Ms) not sure if the Ms have two stages
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Old 10-26-2012, 11:28 AM   #64
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Sounds like you are hydroplaning?? Suggest you slow it down a bit.

DCS is generally a good thing, except in my M5 when you have to turn it off if you plan on hopping on the throttle hard.

Nothing worse than having your ignition timing retarded heavily and your drive by wire throttles shut down when you are trying go get out of the way quickly!
LOL, same issue here.
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Old 10-26-2012, 11:54 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by E46Cherry View Post
We've had plenty of hard rain here in the midwest the past few days. When it's raining fairly hard where water seems to collect on the roads, I find it much easier to drive with the DSC off. Anyone else seem to notice that DSC is quite sensitive and at times too dangerous?
If you find it hard to manage with DSC on, then you apply the Go Juice with far too much gusto and enthusiasm.

DSC keeps the tires from breaking loose in the rain. If the DSC keeps kicking in, then you mash the gas pedal waaay too hard. If you turn DSC off and keep mashing the pedal, then you are asking for trouble.

The danger here is not the DSC condition (on or off), it is the control signals between your head and your feet. You gotta drive like you have a fish bowl in the passenger seat, and the water is filled to the top. Your goal is to drive in a way that no water spills out of the bowl. When you do this, DSC won't be necessary and it certainly won't be annoying.
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Old 10-26-2012, 02:34 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by WDE46 View Post
You people need to read what the OP said. Also you need to understand his problem. You guys all sound like fools for continuing to berate the OP for something he didn't do. He is driving his car in the rain in a straight line in a responsible manner and DSC is still intervening. He wants to know why. You assholes are so quick to call someone stupid. It's pretty hilarious. Almost like you all think your knowledge is infallible or something. You've all made mistakes and done stupid things. Stop being such ****ing assholes. Seriously. This kind of **** is hurting the community. It gives a bad image to all of us when you treat people who ask questions like absolute morons and yourselves as gods.
The OP said he was going 50.
But he said he was also hydroplaning. By defnition, if you're hydroplaning, you're going too fast.
And in my experience, if the DSC light comes on for more than a second when you're starting out on wet pavement or driving on snow or a loose surface, you're driving too fast.

It's not the car, it's not his tires, it's the way he's driving.

If our alternative responses are:
a) Slow down. Now.
b) Too bad, bro. Maybe you should get some coil overs.

And b) leads to the OP's next thread being entitled "I Totaled My M3...And My Right Leg Too"
Maybe a) is what he needs to hear.

Last edited by avincent52; 10-26-2012 at 02:40 PM.
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Old 10-26-2012, 02:57 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by avincent52 View Post
The OP said he was going 50.
But he said he was also hydroplaning. By defnition, if you're hydroplaning, you're going too fast.
And in my experience, if the DSC light comes on for more than a second when you're starting out on wet pavement or driving on snow or a loose surface, you're driving too fast.

It's not the car, it's not his tires, it's the way he's driving.

If our alternative responses are:
a) Slow down. Now.
b) Too bad, bro. Maybe you should get some coil overs.

And b) leads to the OP's next thread being entitled "I Totaled My M3...And My Right Leg Too"
Maybe a) is what he needs to hear.
Honestly if he was hydro planing he would have wrecked his car by now DSC or not. If you do a 4 wheel hydroplane DSC isn't going to help (2 wheels is doable). However, hydroplaning is the only way to explain his swerving only in heavy rain. I don't know what his definition of heavy rain is, but around here you can't go over 40 mph in heavy rain because you can't see out of the windshield otherwise. Also the roads drain fast enough to where if you can see at speed it's safe for the most part (with good tires of course).

Anyway, my point was that you guys should address the problem. Instead of calling him stupid, even if he is, be more constructive. Insulting people gets you nowhere. I guess I ignored my own advice in my rant above

Last edited by WDE46; 10-26-2012 at 02:59 PM.
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Old 10-26-2012, 03:18 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by WDE46 View Post
You people need to read what the OP said. Also you need to understand his problem. You guys all sound like fools for continuing to berate the OP for something he didn't do. He is driving his car in the rain in a straight line in a responsible manner and DSC is still intervening. He wants to know why. You assholes are so quick to call someone stupid. It's pretty hilarious. Almost like you all think your knowledge is infallible or something. You've all made mistakes and done stupid things. Stop being such ****ing assholes. Seriously. This kind of **** is hurting the community. It gives a bad image to all of us when you treat people who ask questions like absolute morons and yourselves as gods.
It has been like that for a few years. Get over it. Adventually I did. I've been here for a while (yet we have around the same post number ). You are right, for some reason in last few years thread quality numbers dropped (partially beacuse 95% E46 questions were already answered), while at the same time a$$hole comments and jumping to conclusion without even reading the whole post skyrocketed. It will just continue going down...to the point where there would be no reason for reading or answering new threads. Just search threads strated by 2009...all good answers are there, and a$$hole comments are at the minimum (for a online forum).

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Originally Posted by Zell View Post
That's what it's designed for...I never ever ever turn mine off.

I agree. But there's also a point that really makes sense: (from around 1:40 to 2:10)

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Old 10-26-2012, 03:35 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by avincent52 View Post
The OP said he was going 50.
But he said he was also hydroplaning. By defnition, if you're hydroplaning, you're going too fast.
And in my experience, if the DSC light comes on for more than a second when you're starting out on wet pavement or driving on snow or a loose surface, you're driving too fast.

It's not the car, it's not his tires, it's the way he's driving.

If our alternative responses are:
a) Slow down. Now.
b) Too bad, bro. Maybe you should get some coil overs.

And b) leads to the OP's next thread being entitled "I Totaled My M3...And My Right Leg Too"
Maybe a) is what he needs to hear.

Wait there's a DSC light that comes on when it's working? I thought it was always engaged and constantly active.

And yes hard rain is exactly that. Barely able to see out of the windshield and the wind gusting fairly hard. I only say 50 because that's what everyone on the highway seemed to be driving in, speed wise. But most of the time almost everyone was passing me cause I was going slower than them. Maybe 40-45mph.

And hydroplaning is not defined by driving too fast. It's the lack of traction and tires not being able to grip the road due to a layer building between the tires and the road or surface.
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Old 10-26-2012, 03:38 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by E46Cherry View Post
Wait there's a DSC light that comes on when it's working? I thought it was always engaged and constantly active.

And yes hard rain is exactly that. Barely able to see out of the windshield and the wind gusting fairly hard. I only say 50 because that's what everyone on the highway seemed to be driving in, speed wise. But most of the time almost everyone was passing me cause I was going slower than them. Maybe 40-45mph.

And hydroplaning is not defined by driving too fast. It's the lack of traction and tires not being able to grip the road due to a layer building between the tires and the road or surface.
DSC is active all the time. That is to say it is monitoring various measurements and factors 24/7 (by default)

When you lose control and DSC intervenes, the light will illuminate for as long as the corrective actions are being applied to your vehicle.

And you are correct. Hydroplaning can theoretically happen at any speed.
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Old 10-26-2012, 03:40 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by WDE46 View Post
Honestly if he was hydro planing he would have wrecked his car by now DSC or not. If you do a 4 wheel hydroplane DSC isn't going to help (2 wheels is doable). However, hydroplaning is the only way to explain his swerving only in heavy rain. I don't know what his definition of heavy rain is, but around here you can't go over 40 mph in heavy rain because you can't see out of the windshield otherwise. Also the roads drain fast enough to where if you can see at speed it's safe for the most part (with good tires of course).

Anyway, my point was that you guys should address the problem. Instead of calling him stupid, even if he is, be more constructive. Insulting people gets you nowhere. I guess I ignored my own advice in my rant above
To the OP: The DSC is constantly *monitoring* the the traction of the wheels. But only in rather extreme conditions does it actually *do* anything (apply the brakes or modulate the throttle.) That's when the dash light goes on.

WDE46: Road conditions vary, and some roads drain beautifully in the hardest rain and some turn into a pond during a shower. That can be a special problem in a place like chicagoland where there are only two seasons: winter and construction (because roadwork, and the barriers put up by crews often cause localized road flooding.)

But if you're hydroplaning, which can be *more* of a problem on a car like the m3 with fat tires, the only reasonable, immediate solution is to slow down.

I didn't call him stupid, and I don't think that most of the other posters did.
We said, "It's not your DSC, or your tires, it's that you're driving too fast."

Last edited by avincent52; 10-26-2012 at 03:52 PM.
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Old 10-26-2012, 04:44 PM   #72
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I can personally attest to how good DSC really is. I was caught in some decently deep snow in my car and I had almost no weight in the trunk. Amazingly, DSC was able to help me negotiate my way up a snow covered hill so I could make it home. A few times, it seemed like I was about to get stuck, but somehow DSC continued vectoring the torque and kept my rear wheels turning long enough for me to make it up the hill. I was quite impressed, I literally just kept my foot lightly on the gas and it carried me up. Albeit somewhat sideways.

On the other hand, I did at one point wreck a 330i with DSC fully enabled. As the BMW manual states, "You cannot repeal the laws of physics."
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Old 10-26-2012, 04:49 PM   #73
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On the other hand, I did at one point wreck a 330i with DSC fully enabled. As the BMW manual states, "You cannot repeal the laws of physics."
Like I said, the DSC merely keeps the car stable and controllable. It's up to the user to keep the speed and direction appropriate.
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Old 10-26-2012, 04:49 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by tock172 View Post
I can personally attest to how good DSC really is. I was caught in some decently deep snow in my car and I had almost no weight in the trunk. Amazingly, DSC was able to help me negotiate my way up a snow covered hill so I could make it home. A few times, it seemed like I was about to get stuck, but somehow DSC continued vectoring the torque and kept my rear wheels turning long enough for me to make it up the hill. I was quite impressed, I literally just kept my foot lightly on the gas and it carried me up. Albeit somewhat sideways.

On the other hand, I did at one point wreck a 330i with DSC fully enabled. As the BMW manual states, "You cannot repeal the laws of physics."
yep. that DSC probably saved you from having a broken bone or two!
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Old 10-26-2012, 04:54 PM   #75
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yep. that DSC probably saved you from having a broken bone or two!
I was amazed by the airbag system of the e46. Considering how old the original designs are, it's incredibly safe. The car even took the impact of the accident well.

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Like I said, the DSC merely keeps the car stable and controllable. It's up to the user to keep the speed and direction appropriate.
Exactly right. In my instance, I did neither.
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Old 10-26-2012, 05:01 PM   #76
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To the OP: The DSC is constantly *monitoring* the the traction of the wheels. But only in rather extreme conditions does it actually *do* anything (apply the brakes or modulate the throttle.) That's when the dash light goes on.

WDE46: Road conditions vary, and some roads drain beautifully in the hardest rain and some turn into a pond during a shower. That can be a special problem in a place like chicagoland where there are only two seasons: winter and construction (because roadwork, and the barriers put up by crews often cause localized road flooding.)

But if you're hydroplaning, which can be *more* of a problem on a car like the m3 with fat tires, the only reasonable, immediate solution is to slow down.

I didn't call him stupid, and I don't think that most of the other posters did.
We said, "It's not your DSC, or your tires, it's that you're driving too fast."

So in that case, DSC never actually did anything... The dash light never even turned on in my car. Obviously I mean before I turned it off.

And this is very true. Only 2 seasons, winter and construction. No surprised that the whole highway was actually under construction.
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Old 10-26-2012, 05:13 PM   #77
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lol at people overreacting.
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Old 10-26-2012, 05:15 PM   #78
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pretty innocent casual question, and all of the sudden everybody is an instant expert on closed loop control systems and has never made a mistake in their life.what a joke lol.
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Old 10-26-2012, 05:35 PM   #79
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pretty innocent casual question, and all of the sudden everybody is an instant expert on closed loop control systems and has never made a mistake in their life.what a joke lol.
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On the other hand, I did at one point wreck a 330i with DSC fully enabled. As the BMW manual states, "You cannot repeal the laws of physics."

Probably should have read the entire thread first.
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Old 10-27-2012, 02:09 AM   #80
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I can personally attest to how good DSC really is. I was caught in some decently deep snow in my car and I had almost no weight in the trunk. Amazingly, DSC was able to help me negotiate my way up a snow covered hill so I could make it home. A few times, it seemed like I was about to get stuck, but somehow DSC continued vectoring the torque and kept my rear wheels turning long enough for me to make it up the hill. I was quite impressed, I literally just kept my foot lightly on the gas and it carried me up. Albeit somewhat sideways.

On the other hand, I did at one point wreck a 330i with DSC fully enabled. As the BMW manual states, "You cannot repeal the laws of physics."
Last time in snowed in Seattle I had to disable the DSC to get up hills. My winter tires helped tons, just my experience.
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