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Old 11-05-2012, 09:19 PM   #1
jessehell
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Non continuous OBD monitors won't set

I've been trying to inspect my car for months in NY. I have read just about everything on google about e46 OBD readiness monitors and drive cycles and have tried it all. The 5 non continuous monitors will not change from "Not ready".
Here's the back story on what I have changed:
Tried for inspection first time(bought car a little over a year ago). We discover that my SES light doesn't illuminate, inspection shop turns a blind eye. Upon plugging car in, I have catalyst and evap as not ready(drove 10k miles prior). Automatic fail. I also have codes for evap very small leak and low fuel misfire.
I replace my fuel filter, gas cap, and find the vacuum line from filter to intake broke. Clear codes with Torque app. Drive a bit, secondary air system bank 1&2 codes come up.
I check secondary air system and find the vacuum line broke in two. Repair that, clear codes again.

Now I have no codes and all 5 non continuous monitors still read not ready. I have driven over 300 miles and specifically have spent over 100 of those doing drive cycles. I'm at a loss as to what to do next and hope someone has encountered this before??
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Old 11-05-2012, 09:50 PM   #2
jfoj
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Keep in mind that you cannot always relay 100% on drive cycle behavior to clear readiness codes in a few short miles.

It seems that in some instances that I have found if you have had codes for a LONG time, the readiness codes that may be associated with these codes may take longer to clear?? I have not seen written proof if this, however, I have seen first hand this behavior.

Need to know what readiness codes you have that are still not clear.

Also some codes need multiple cold start drive cycles to clear.

Evap codes are usually the last and hardest to get clear.

Also you should read the first 2 links below in my signature. It probably has info on many of the most common problems that occur.

Also keep in mind that some states allow up to 2 readiness codes to not be clear and the car can still pass if there are no CEL codes.

But you need to find this info and fully understand what the rules are for your state.
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Solve your misfires, lean codes, rough idle - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=897616

Fuel pump failures - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=929501

Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temps, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose fan switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299
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Old 11-05-2012, 10:04 PM   #3
jessehell
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Thanks for the reply

I feel the amount of driving I have done and the conditions I have done them under would amount to setting at least one of the readiness monitors to ready. It has been weeks of driving with no change.
Evap, O2 sensor, O2 heater, catalyst, and secondary air are all "not ready"
In NY we can only have 1 monitor not ready.
I understand the multiple cold start and other test implications. I have tried many times to set any and all of the monitors with no luck. It seems that many people have issues with setting one or two monitors, but I haven't found a case where none of them will set.
One thing I came across searching is that if the battery voltage is too low none of the monitors may ever set. I measured voltage at 12.0 cold prior to start. Is it worth buying a new battery just to rule this out.
I'm 3 months over due on my inspection now and very disappointed with this car.
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Old 11-05-2012, 10:20 PM   #4
jfoj
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12.0 Volts is really a low battery.

See my signature for the Hidden OBC Menu, you can bring the battery Voltage directly up on your dashboard.

You should also check your charging Voltage as well.

There is a engine to body ground that can go bad on the passenger side of the car to cause the charging Voltage to be low.

Also check your coolant temp with the hidden OBC menu and make sure the engine is running warm enough.

What readiness codes have set?

Unfortunately you may still have a secondary air system problem that has not triggered a code that may be causing your O2 sensors to not clear quickly?

You need to make sure the SAP actually is running, the hose from the SAP to the vacuum control valve is good, there is nothing in the vacuum control valve restricting the airflow and you are actually getting vacuum to the control valve for the first 90 seconds or so on cold start.
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Solve your misfires, lean codes, rough idle - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=897616

Fuel pump failures - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=929501

Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temps, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose fan switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299
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Old 11-05-2012, 10:35 PM   #5
jessehell
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I have 13.9 - 14.1 volts while driving/running the motor using the in dash monitors. I replaced alternator approx 8 months ago.
I will evaluate coolant temps and make sure its not running too hot / cold next.
The only monitors to set are the fuel trim, misfire, and component monitors.
I pulled hose from SAP and the pump blows well. After that I found vacuum break and stopped searching. I will do a full diagnosis of the secondary air system to rule out residual issues I guess.

The car seems to run fine barring the inspection issues at this time.
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Old 11-05-2012, 10:37 PM   #6
jfoj
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The SAP vacuum control hose that runs around the valve cover is FAMOUS for multiple breaks.

Most people fully bypass this line from the vacuum control valve to under the rear of the intake.

See my first link in my signature regardlng the SAP section.
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Solve your misfires, lean codes, rough idle - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=897616

Fuel pump failures - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=929501

Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temps, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose fan switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299
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Old 11-08-2012, 10:05 PM   #7
jessehell
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Update-Coolant temps when warmed up read @186 F
Intake is coming off tomorrow for full inspection and a new battery is going in.
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Old 11-18-2012, 09:45 PM   #8
jessehell
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I have taken the intake tract apart. Everything looked good, I replaced the hoses for good measure. DISA appears to be newer and in good working order. Cleaned ICV.
I also replaced the battery just to rule that out.
Did more drive cycles and have had no luck still with these 5 monitors. I'm running out of ideas. I have a new thermostat here that I will put in this week
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Old 11-18-2012, 10:13 PM   #9
jfoj
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I think 186 F is too cold for a standard E46??

Most stats fail on the cold side in these cars anyway.

The problem is the temp gauge is buffered and sits directly at 12 o'clock over a 50F range so it is hard to tell when the stat is bad.

I will check and see what the standard engine temp should be.
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Solve your misfires, lean codes, rough idle - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=897616

Fuel pump failures - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=929501

Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temps, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose fan switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299
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Old 11-18-2012, 10:21 PM   #10
jfoj
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I think your car should typicall run between 200-205F.

The thermostat has an electric heater in it to open the thermostat earlier under hard driving conditions, it could open it as early as 175F as I recall, but I think the E46 typical temp is more in the 200F range??

The E46 is the wife's so I do not drive it as often, so I cannot say for sure at the moment what "normal" temps is.
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Solve your misfires, lean codes, rough idle - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=897616

Fuel pump failures - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=929501

Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temps, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose fan switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299
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Old 11-22-2012, 12:43 PM   #11
jessehell
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Installed new thermostat and did 2 drive cycles. No changes in OBD readiness. Still has 5 showing as incomplete.
Coolant temps stay steady at 188.6 degrees now. Saw it get to 190 degrees in city driving.
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Old 11-22-2012, 08:01 PM   #12
jessehell
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Gathered some data while idling in my driveway. With ignition in on position and car not running, all o2 sensors read a steady .4v
Once up to temp idling, both primary sensors oscillate between .1v & .7/.8v
Post cat o2 sensors read as follows:
bank 1: Steady .7v
bank 2: Bounces between .4v - .5v
Fuel trims maintain between (-)1.5% - 2%

Any ideas on interpreting this data?
I do have a very slight exhaust leak at the header/resonator interface btw

Last edited by jessehell; 11-22-2012 at 08:07 PM.
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Old 11-22-2012, 10:10 PM   #13
jfoj
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You are going to need quite a few cold start cycles with at least a few 15-20 minute highway drives to try and see how many monitors you can get to set.

Usually the Evap and Cat monitors are last to set, however, if you recently had any codes for problems, these monitors usually take longer to set.

Also your exhaust leak could cause your to trigger Cat Efficiency codes from time to time.

You may have 1 lazy post Cat O2 sensor, but I would not get too worried about this yet.

You may need between 150-200 miles before you have monitors set.

Also make sure your engine is going into closed loop and staying in closed loop.

Your questionable thermostat may have caused the engine to drop in and out of closed loop too often.
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Solve your misfires, lean codes, rough idle - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=897616

Fuel pump failures - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=929501

Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temps, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose fan switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299
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Old 11-22-2012, 10:22 PM   #14
jessehell
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I have @20 cold start cycles, (4) 15+ min 55mph drives, and over 400 miles of driving since I replaced the questionable battery last week. Torque app shows the car runs in closed loop after about 3 minutes of warm up time.
I played with the throttle some in the driveway and the bank2 post cat o2 sensor drops to and stays at around 1.8v and sometimes 4v-5v if i hold rpms steady at @1k.(bank1 post cat does not move from .7)
Do I need to take this into the dealer and have the ecu flashed? I've spent days searching online and no one else has ever had this issue of ALL monitors refusing to set.
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Old 11-22-2012, 10:55 PM   #15
jfoj
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Does the CEL light work on this car now??

What may be happening is you stated your CEL did not work, someone probably disabled it somehow.

You are using a generic scan tool - Torque to check for codes, likely you have some BMW specific codes that do not show up on your Torque app.

Not sure I would jump in line to go to the dealer, would find a good Indy that has the ability to read BMW specific codes, but I would figure out how to get your CEL to work so you can sort the car out.

Your fuel trims at a negative value is unusual.

Hardly anything makes an engine run rich, usually they run lean.

You might see if you can borrow a MAF sensor to compare readings and see what happens.

If you do not know the history of the car, it will be a big challenge to get things sorted out.

If you have time and the ability, spend $32 for BMW Scanner 1.4.0 from www.xcar360.com, takes over 2 weeks to get, but will read all BMW specific codes. Also INPA is a decent diagnostic tool as well.
__________________
Solve your misfires, lean codes, rough idle - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=897616

Fuel pump failures - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=929501

Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temps, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose fan switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299

Last edited by jfoj; 11-22-2012 at 10:55 PM.
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Old 11-22-2012, 11:34 PM   #16
jessehell
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Thanks for the quality response. I just purchased the bmw scanner 1.4.0 you suggested.
SES light does not work at all at this time. When I turn key to on or run the cluster test, it does not illuminate. My thoughts were that it is either a broken led or disabled. If it was disabled, the dealer ecu reflash should re enable it I hoped. I'm pretty inclined as far as repairs go, so soldering in a new led is a possibility for me.
I have a friend with the same car I can most likely barrow a MAF from.
My car came from a dealer who bought it at auction in NC, so the history is a complete mystery to me. I suspect he played some games to get it inspected when I purchased it.
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Old 11-23-2012, 05:18 AM   #17
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What is the voltage when the car is running and sitting? How is the battery?

Sent from my ADR6400L using Bimmer App
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Old 11-23-2012, 05:52 AM   #18
jfoj
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Unlikely the dealer ECU reflash will fix your problem(s) with the CEL not coming on.

I believe you could possibly disable the CEL via special software, however, most people go down the simpler/caveman path. Hopefully it is something simple like electrical tape behind the cluster lens??

See the picture in this link of how far people may go and one way of resolving the CEL from coming on -
http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showpos...&postcount=384

Hopefully you do not have this type of problem?

Suggest you first inspect what it may take to get down to the cluster to this level for inspection. May not be easy, but this is the most likely thing someone did short of a drill bit or something more destructive?

BMW Scanner will show you all the BMW specific codes that may be lurking in the background that a standard tool will not show. Also this software will show active vs. shadow codes. Active code will trigger the CEL, shadow codes will not show trigger the CEL.

I wish you much luck on your attempt to repair your car and get it inspected.
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Solve your misfires, lean codes, rough idle - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=897616

Fuel pump failures - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=929501

Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temps, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose fan switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299
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Old 11-23-2012, 03:13 PM   #19
jessehell
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Battery is brand new. Alternator is less than a year old. Voltage driving is 13.9-14.1v.
I found 3 pieces of paper between the SES led on the circuit board and the dash frame. Pulled them out. The light now comes on when I insert the key and move it to position 2 as it should then goes off.
So I can now confirm that the check engine light is not on anymore.
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Old 11-23-2012, 04:28 PM   #20
jfoj
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Move in the proper direction.

Glad is was easy and things were not destroyed.

You will actually be glad the CEL light works so you can be notified when something is out of line.

Is the CEL on now when driving?

Now you need to know exactly what BMW specific codes are holding you up.

Once you get the PA Soft BMW Scanner 1.4.0 you will be able to read BMW specific codes and program things on the car.

I assume you have a Windows laptop? What OS are you running and is it 32 or 64 bit?

Win XP 32 bit is the easiest, but you can it working on Win 7 64 bit, just a bit more challenging.
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Solve your misfires, lean codes, rough idle - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=897616

Fuel pump failures - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=929501

Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temps, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose fan switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299

Last edited by jfoj; 11-23-2012 at 04:29 PM.
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