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Old 12-12-2012, 12:14 AM   #41
jessehell
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I just purchased a pre cat sensor from amazon to replace bank1 pre cat.
Bank1, post cat o2 sensor is brand new. I think the wires to the post cats may have been connected to the wrong plug though by a previous mechanic/hack. When I pull one apart at the connector, while the car is running, the other one goes to .45v in my torque app. Can anyone confirm where each post cat o2 sensor gets plugged in?
As I look at the chart... I am wondering if the reason bank 1, pre cat did not drop to low voltage when the SAP kicked on could be that the air injection on that side is torn/disconnected. I have never inspected past the valve for problems with SAP system.

Last edited by jessehell; 12-12-2012 at 12:30 AM.
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Old 12-12-2012, 12:37 AM   #42
dslboomer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jessehell View Post
I just purchased a pre cat sensor from amazon to replace bank1 pre cat.
Bank1, post cat o2 sensor is brand new. I think the wires to the post cats may have been connected to the wrong plug though by a previous mechanic/hack. When I pull one apart at the connector, while the car is running, the other one goes to .45v in my torque app. Can anyone confirm where each post cat o2 sensor gets plugged in?
As I look at the chart... I am wondering if the reason bank 1, pre cat did not drop to low voltage when the SAP kicked on could be that the air injection on that side is torn/disconnected. I have never inspected past the valve for problems with SAP system.
Here is the connectors' location. Front connector is for the bank 1.
http://wds.spaghetticoder.org/en/zinfo/E46_EX62102B.htm

I doubt that the mixed connection or plugged secondary air is the cause for the badly behaving pre-cat bank 1 sensor. You can tell by the difference in amplitude of oscillation between bank 1 and bank 2 after the secondary air stopped. The good bank 2 sensor varies from 0.1 to 0.8, but the bad bank 1 sensor varies from 0.3 to 0.6.

Last edited by dslboomer; 12-12-2012 at 12:46 AM.
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Old 12-12-2012, 12:42 AM   #43
jessehell
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Thank you, this information has helped me make real progress.
My post cats are hooked up counter to the image you posted. I will get that switched in the morning. New pre cat o2 sensor will be here friday. I will update.
Cheers,
Jesse
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Old 12-12-2012, 02:13 PM   #44
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By chance do you have any wiring repair or generic O2 sensors that had wires spliced?

Any wiring look damaged, melted or repaired?

Mixed up wiring would not be the first time, but easy to swap and test.
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Old 12-12-2012, 11:16 PM   #45
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All o2 sensors are oem type connections. I checked wiring on all 4 from sensor to connector when I replaced the post cat sensor in bank 1.
I swapped the post cat o2 sensors at the connectors to their proper locations this evening. The catalyst monitor set to ready when I drove it after. Seems having those swapped held up that process.
So the 2 monitors left as incomplete now are Evap and O2 Heater.

I also received my bmw scan tool today from hong kong. I was able to get it working on windows 7 pro x64. Here are the errors I pulled out of the ecu:

# ERRORS DETAILS - DTC(hex)/PARAM(hex)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DME -> 8F/B2 - Tank leak diagnosis with DMTL, minimum leak
F5/B8 - Secondary air system, flow rate too low, bank 1
F6/B8 - Secondary air system, flow rate too low, bank 2
0A/B2 - Engine coolant temperature sensor signal, short circuit to negative
EC/B2 - Trimming, oxygen sensor before catalyst, bank 2, too great in rich range
4F/B4 - Oxygen sensor heater after catalyst, bank 1, open circuit
3D/B4 - Oxygen sensor heater after catalyst, bank 2, open circuit
Shadow-memory:
8F/B2 - Tank leak diagnosis with DMTL, minimum leak
F5/B8 - Secondary air system, flow rate too low, bank 1
F6/B8 - Secondary air system, flow rate too low, bank 2
0A/B2 - Engine coolant temperature sensor signal, short circuit to negative
EC/B2 - Trimming, oxygen sensor before catalyst, bank 2, too great in rich range
4F/B4 - Oxygen sensor heater after catalyst, bank 1, open circuit
3D/B4 - Oxygen sensor heater after catalyst, bank 2, open circuit
5A/12 - Exhaust temperature before catalyst, bank 1, signal line, short circuit to negative
5B/12 - Exhaust temperature before catalyst, bank 2, signal line, short circuit to negative
5D/12 - Exhaust temperature after catalyst, bank 2, signal line, short circuit to negative
3F/14 - Control unit self-test 3
34/02 - Solenoid valve, exhaust flap, short circuit to negative or open circuit

EGS -> 94/20 - CAN Engine temperature

EWS -> 0F/28 - Power on reset

ABS* -> 5E5B/20 - DSC push button pressed longer than 10 sec or Error.
5E43/A0 - Steering angle sensor internal.

LEW -> 04/17 - 90 degrees difference of wiper too large (Adjustment operation)

A/C -> 1C/04 - AUC sensor

SRS -> Shadow-memory:
50/20 - Power supply, undervoltage

LCM -> 22/07 - HVAC, front load sensor, short circuit to ground
Shadow-memory:
36/01 - Turn indicator, front left
41/0C - Low beam, right
42/19 - Low beam, left
43/30 - Supplementary turn indicator, left
44/30 - Supplementary turn indicator, right

ZKE -> 3D/02 - Central locking system: Short circuit or Open circuit at Motor Tailgate
0D/01 - Power window: Open circuit Jam protection strip or lost of scaling/Error EKS electronic Driver's door
0E/01 - Power window: Open circuit Jam protection strip or lost of scaling/Error EKS electronic Passenger door
0F/01 - Power window: Open circuit Jam protection strip or lost of scaling/Error EKS electronic Driver's side behind
10/01 - Power window: Open circuit Jam protection strip or lost of scaling/Error EKS electronic Passenger side behind
02/02 - Central locking system: Fuse
3B/0B - Interior light: Short circuit
08/01 - Power window: Fuse
Shadow-memory:
90/2B - Battery Voltage: Open circuit

RAD -> 02/01 - Error power-supply for antenna

SPMFT -> 04/01 - Mirror-moving-switch, interruption
Shadow-memory:
00/13 - Low voltage ( U < 8,5 Volt )
02/6D - Low voltage mirror-heating

SPMBT -> 07/3F - Mirror drive, potentiometer vertical
Shadow-memory:
00/13 - Low voltage ( U < 8,5 Volt )
02/91 - Low voltage mirror-heating
04/03 - Mirror drive, potentiometer plausibility



In regards to dme errors, I can explain the coolant temp sensor as a bad connection to the the lower hose sensor. I solved that with contact cleaner.
None of the dme codes are current/pending.
I also noticed while monitoring the car as it idled that the dme reported both post cat o2 sensor heaters as not being on.

Last edited by jessehell; 12-12-2012 at 11:21 PM.
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Old 12-13-2012, 05:49 AM   #46
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Great, sounds like you may be getting very close to the finish line here after all!!

Be careful about using the BWM Scanner, it will flood you with too many errors at times, many are red herrings or from low battery or other strange situations.

Find where BMW Scanner stores the logs so you can refer back to them as needed.

Clear the codes for the DME??? But think about if you want to do this yet, clearing the codes will reset the Emission Readiness Status so you will start from scratch on these.

You may want to wait a bit. The DME may clear some of the errors on its own, but it may take many start/drive cycles. This is programmed into the DME and most likely non of us know what this count may be.

I would give it a bit.

Now on the good side, you may be able to proceed with an inspection anyway even with the 2 Emission Readiness Monitors not cleared.

Check your state emission laws. Many states will allow up to 2 Emission Readiness Monitors not cleared as long as the CEL is not lit to pass inspection. Usually the number of Emission Readiness Monitors is staggered, so newer cars can maybe have 1 non ready indicator, but older cars may have 2 non ready indicators.

Your O2 heater codes may be not ready due to the O2 harnesses being swapped and for some reason the DME did not see them active as quickly as they were expected?? The DME expects the O2 sensors to be active within a certain time window and with the harnesses swapped, the DME likely did not see the quick activity from the O2 sensors, so the DME may "think" the O2 sensor heater circuits are not working as expected?

Also the O2 sensor heaters are only on for a short period of time at warm up from a colder start. Not sure how the DME is programmed to deal with this, but once the O2 sensors are warmed up and reporting the O2 heaters should not be on. So do not get too excited as of yet.

So check your emission laws, be patient and then think long and hard to decide if and when you want to clear the DME codes. Remember, if you clear the DME, you will reset all the Emission Readiness Monitors and you will start from beginning again. It might be worthwhile to try and get the car inspected before you do this, then once the car is inspected, you can clear the codes and make sure you can get the Emission Readiness to clear via the Federal Drive Cycle for future needs and to know your car is working the way it should.

Keep us updated, I am sure others can learn from your situaiton.

BTW, no money wasted on the BMW Scanner, it will pay for itself MANY times over. Also you can start to code your car for cool features once you clear this hurdle!
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Last edited by jfoj; 12-13-2012 at 05:55 AM.
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Old 12-13-2012, 11:33 AM   #47
jessehell
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I can only have one monitor not ready on this car in ny so im not done yet. I have no intention of clearing the dme. I am at 1k miles since I started this fiasco.

I had been ignoring evap until now as I thought catalyst and o2 heater would hopefully set together and I would go inspect the car then. I did 50 miles of thruway driving at 55mph last night hoping to take care of the last monitor I needed .
I'm going to do an evap drive cycle today and hope for the best.. Is there really any drive cycle for o2 heaters, or is it just a matter of cold start and letting the car idle?
What do you guys think of that gas tank error stored in my dme? Will that stop the evap test?
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Old 12-13-2012, 01:25 PM   #48
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Your current errors are -

8F/B2 - Tank leak diagnosis with DMTL, minimum leak
F5/B8 - Secondary air system, flow rate too low, bank 1
F6/B8 - Secondary air system, flow rate too low, bank 2
0A/B2 - Engine coolant temperature sensor signal, short circuit to negative
EC/B2 - Trimming, oxygen sensor before catalyst, bank 2, too great in rich range
4F/B4 - Oxygen sensor heater after catalyst, bank 1, open circuit
3D/B4 - Oxygen sensor heater after catalyst, bank 2, open circuit

Do you have a CEL at the moment?

I believe the Tank leak with DMTL min leak is for Evap. There is an electric pump that pressurized the fuel tank for a brief time to verify the integrity of the fuel tank and evap system. I assume this is saying you have a small Evap leak?? Could be as simple as the gas cap, could be the evap solenoid, could be a bad hose?? I think the DMTL pump and evap canister is under the car near the spare tire well?

You are in a catch 22 at this point. If you reset you codes, you have to get your monitors to clear. If you do not clear your codes, the ones you have may take 10-20 or more start cycles to automatically clear. So do not be surprised if some of the do not clear quickly. If you cleared the codes, you might pass your Readiness Monitors quicker? It may take a long time?? If everything is in order, the Readiness Monitors should clear withing a few drive cycles and in under 100 miles.

See if you can graph you O2 sensors again and compare to your first graph, this may give you some insight and hope on matters.

Secondary air system flow too low may have been due to the O2 sensor cables swapped, same for the O2 sensor heaters??

Pre cat Bank 2 range trim?? Too rich? not sure what this is about. I know you replaced an O2 sensor somewhere?

Coolant temp sensor may have a issue in the wiring?? Maybe an intermittent, maybe something that is assumed based upon O2 sensors not warming up quick enough?

Hard to tell without knowing the logic that was put into the DME for errors.
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Old 12-13-2012, 03:03 PM   #49
jessehell
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I do not have a CEL light and haven't since I pulled those pieces of paper out from in front of its led.
Gas cap is new. Seems that if the tank leak pump has ran, then it definitely tried to run the evap test and identified a minimal leak. Perhaps trying to trace all the hoses may net me the problem with Evap.
I can graph o2 sensors again. That is a rather simple matter.
I had run the car with one post cat o2 unplugged at a time to see if the sensors were hooked up correctly. I assume that to be the source of the open circuit errors.
The coolant temp sensor error was def a bad connection. The temp gauge would flash to red randomly then flash back to the vertical. This went away when I wiggled that sensor.

So, where I think I am at now:
Evap- Appears to have a minimal leak somewhere when the tank pressurization test is run
O2 Heater- No idea
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Old 12-13-2012, 03:29 PM   #50
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I know you probably do not want to hear this, but if it was my car, I think I would clear the DME codes and let the Readiness Monitors do their thing once you have a look at the O2 sensor graphs.

Again, Catch 22. You may fly through the Readiness Monitors, you may hit a road block, however, I think if the O2 sensors look better on the next graph then likely you will move along with the Readiness Monitors.

You might clear them all, you may get stuck on Evap.

Evap is almost always the last one to clear anyway.

If you can get an inspection with just 1 monitor, then if Evap is still hanging, hopefully you can get the car though inspection??

Good luck, looks like you are really close to getting this thing sorted.
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Last edited by jfoj; 12-13-2012 at 03:29 PM.
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Old 12-13-2012, 05:34 PM   #51
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jessehell,

You might be interested in this link for your Evap error, someone just dug it up out of the archives!

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthr...=455411&page=2
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Old 12-13-2012, 05:34 PM   #52
jessehell
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I'm not sure how clearing the dme is going to help me at this point?
I just logged o2 sensors and inspected the evap pump lines by the spare wheel well. All looks good there. Nothing appeared cracked or worn.
Here is my graphed o2 sensors from a cold start(sitting more than 12 hours @ 40 degrees)

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Old 12-13-2012, 06:41 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by jessehell View Post
I'm not sure how clearing the dme is going to help me at this point?
I just logged o2 sensors and inspected the evap pump lines by the spare wheel well. All looks good there. Nothing appeared cracked or worn.
Here is my graphed o2 sensors from a cold start(sitting more than 12 hours @ 40 degrees)
]
You have a progress since all O2 sensors are now starting at .45V.
I agree with jfoj on clearing DME and start all over again:
1. If there are pending codes, it takes many test cycles to clear the codes from DME memory. I am not certain about this, but I am guessing that pending code will prevent the monitors from being ready. By clearing the codes, you force the DME to start monitoring from count 0.
2. You will be able to see what is fixed and what is not. And you can go to next step from there.

I think you have fix for all your codes except the EVAP small leak, and emission monitors will be ready pretty quickly this time after you install the new pre-cat sensor.

Insufficient secondary air is caused by bad pre-cat O2 sensor because DME is looking for lean condition (low voltage) while the SAP is injecting extra oxygen. This will be fixed with new O2 sensor.

O2 heater monitor was not set because post cat sensors were mixed. I bet this will set right away once you cleared codes. Be brave and check it out. Do same after installing the new O2 sensor.

By the way, I don't know your circumstance why one side O2 sensor is okay and the other side is not, but recommend to change O2 sensors in pair.

It is odd that check engine light was not on with the EVAP leak with that many drive cycle you were attempting.

It sure looks like your car wasn't good shape before judging from all those codes in history.

Last edited by dslboomer; 12-13-2012 at 06:42 PM.
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Old 12-13-2012, 06:44 PM   #54
jessehell
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I'm going to install that new o2 sensor when it arrives(maybe tomorrow if it shows up in time, if not..then sunday it will be). After that I will log o2 sensors again and give it a couple days to see if 02 heater sets.
If that doesn't change anything I will use PA Soft to clear the dme and start over.
Thanks for the replies!
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Old 12-13-2012, 06:55 PM   #55
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Bank 1 Sensor 1 appears to be lazy.

If it was looking like Bank 2 Sensor 1, I would say clear the DME and go for it.

See what things like with fresh sensors. Probably need some anyway??

I usually by Bosch from Amazon for about $45 each and I have had good luck with them so far.

Roll with the Evap, give it some time, see if you get the Minimum Leak code, but if this is the only monitor that does not clear, get your car inspected and deal with the Evap in the Spring when it warms up!
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Lower hose fan switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299
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Old 12-13-2012, 08:11 PM   #56
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I suspect the o2 sensors were originals. Bank 1 will have new pre and post cat sensor after I install the new pre cat sensor that amazon is supposed to deliver tomorrow. I would replace the other 2 but need to save some money for xmas. I also would prefer not to blow a ton more money on a car I now despise.
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Old 12-16-2012, 05:48 PM   #57
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I got the new pre cat sensor installed today in bank 1. The logs show that bank to have equal peaks and lows in it's oscillation to bank 2 now.

I traced the o2 wires back from the connectors to the ECU and found no detectable damage. There is a kink in all 4 sets of wires where they were tied together behind the engine though. I am considering cutting the insulation to check for wire damage there.

I played with the PA Soft laptop setup a little more today. In the live DME data, I can see that o2 sensor heater control has a red dot next to it(as opposed to green or yellow) and says error in status. The same applies for Evap pump control.
I also noticed that each o2 heater had a green indicator next to it today as opposed to a few days ago when only the pre cat sensors had green(post cats were yellow).
I did a pretty thorough examination of the entire fuel and vacuum system and came up with nothing. I looked over the evap purge valve well too.(I started the car with that disconnected and set a check engine light that hasn't went away even after a few more starts)

Last edited by jessehell; 12-16-2012 at 06:47 PM.
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Old 12-16-2012, 06:36 PM   #58
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Here's the Laptop log that shows which heaters are on and the heater & evap control errors:

# DME LIVE DATA - GROUP 1 (3:31:29 PM 12/16/2012) :

Air-conditioner switch : Off
A/C compressor, request : No
A/C compressor, activation : Off
Cruise control : Off
Clutch : Off
Relay, fuel pump : On
Brake-light switch : Off
Brake-test switch : Off
EML lamp : Off
MIL lamp : On
CAN bus : On
O2-sensor 1 before cat. heated : Yes
O2-sensor 2 before cat. heated : Yes
O2-sensor 1 after cat. heated : Yes
O2-sensor 2 after cat. heated : Yes


MIL, status : Error
MIL, errors : 1
O2-sensor heating control : Error
O2-sensor control : OK
Secondary-air control : OK
Tank-leak control : Error
Catalyst control : OK
KM after failure occurrence : 4


Engine load : Idle
Overrun cutoff : Off
Overrun : Off
O2-sensor control, bank 1 : On
O2-sensor control, bank 2 : On

EGS intervention : No
ASC intervention : No
Status VANOS active : Yes
Status VANOS, ready : No
Status VANOS, passive : No
Tank ventilation valve : On
Secondary air valve : Off
Secondary-air pump : Off
Intake manifold valve : Off

Selector-lever setting : P/N
Rest : On
Deceleration : Off
Resumption : Off
Acceleration : Off
Tip-down : Off
Tip-up : Off
Off : Off
Hard off : Off

Last edited by jessehell; 12-16-2012 at 06:41 PM.
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Old 12-16-2012, 07:44 PM   #59
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Looks like you finally have some O2 sensors working close to correctly, the new O2 sensor looks good, so at least your pre Cat sensors look similar.

Slightly confused, but maybe I am following??

The real time data you provided show MIL Status = error and MIL errors = 1.

Is this from you forcing an error with the Evap system?

I also see you show errors with the O2 sensor heating control and Tank Leak control.

Its also shows that it appears the DME is enabling the O2 sensor heaters.

Not sure how the DME senses the O2 sensors are working or not. I assume one way would be to determine how quickly the O2 sensors become active and swing past a certain Voltage. The other way may be some way to monitor monitor the current or Voltage drop for the O2 sensor heaters?

Looking at the wiring diagrams there is a 30 Amp fuse (Fuse #4) which I believe is under the hood in the DME box??. This fuse appears to be the main fuse that powers the heated O2 sensors. The O2 sensor connectors should have power provided by a 0.5mm wire that is red with a white stripe.

This wire should likely be hot at all times or at least hot at all times with the ignition on/engine running.

The DME appears to control the ground side of the heated O2 sensors and likely has the ability to see the Voltage drop from when the DME grounds or turns on the O2 sensors. If my diagram is correct there are 4 O2 heater wires that return to the DME. They are 0.5mm Brown wires. Pre-cat sensors are pin #1 & pin #13, post-cat sensors are pin#7 & pin #19.

So you should see 12 Volts are close to 12 Volts at these DME brown wires unless the heaters are enable. When the DME enables these heaters, these brown wires should go to basically 0 Volts.

Not sure you are following what I am trying to say, but it looks like the heated O2 circuit is pretty simple.

Check fuse #4 first, if this is blown, then your heaters will not work and the DME will have an error.

Check to see if you have 12 Volts at the brown wires at the DME which I provided you the pin numbers for, if you have 12 Volts at these terminals, then the path from the fuse to the O2 sensor to the DME wiring is good.

Then you just need to see if you can see the DME turn the heaters on.

Once you sort the O2 sensor heaters, I would be inclined to clear the DME and start the Readiness Monitors over. They should most all set within 2-4 drive cycles and in under 50 miles if things are getting close.

As for the Evap tank pump, it is powered by fuse #3, 20 Amp inside the DME box next to the O2 sensor heater fuse.

Again unclear if the problem is power, wiring, control or leakage in the tank. The error looks like a control error problem??

Looks like from the diagram the DME controls the ground or negative path side of the tank leakage pump. Similar to the O2 sensors. Looks like pin 30 on the DME is the tank leakage pump ground control, 0.75mm Brown wire with black strip??. There appears to be a switch inside the tank leakage pump that sends a signal to the DME on pin #34, looks like a 0.5mm wire green with white stripe?
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Old 12-16-2012, 08:18 PM   #60
jessehell
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Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: WNY
Posts: 34
My Ride: 02 325i
I have checked all the fuses in the dme area. That Mil error was from the evap purge connector I left disconnected and has went away now.
With PA Soft I have now noticed the heaters for post cat sensors show a usage of 21% when the car is cold.The pre cats show 99% usage immediately. When warm the post cats reflect 99% as well.

I will have to get out the multi meter and check the voltage on those heater wires

Last edited by jessehell; 12-16-2012 at 08:19 PM.
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