E46 BMW Social Directory E46 FAQ 3-Series Discussion Forums BMW Photo Gallery BMW 3-Series Technical Information E46 Fanatics - The Ultimate BMW Resource BMW Vendors General E46 Forum The Tire Rack's Tire Wheel Forum Forced Induction Forum The Off-Topic The E46 BMW Showroom For Sale, For Trade or Wanting to Buy

Welcome to the E46Fanatics forums. E46Fanatics is the premiere website for BMW 3 series owners around the world with interactive forums, a geographical enthusiast directory, photo galleries, and technical information for BMW enthusiasts.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.

Go Back   E46Fanatics > Everything Else > The Off-Topic > Political Talk

Political Talk
You may discuss anything regarding politics in this forum ONLY. If you cannot respect others opinions, your access to this forum will be removed.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 11-12-2012, 07:26 PM   #1
phrozen06
NA V8
 
phrozen06's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: 3927'33"N 7758'04"W
Posts: 7,490
My Ride: E46, E92 M3, R32 VW
Send a message via Yahoo to phrozen06
Texas Megachurch Pastor Says Obama Will 'Pave Way' for Antichrist

http://www.christianpost.com/news/te...ichrist-84639/

Quote:
A Texas megachurch pastor recently claimed that President Barack Obama's re-election victory would lead to the rise of the Antichrist.

Robert Jeffress, senior pastor at the First Baptist Church in Dallas, made remarks on Sunday before the election that should Obama win, his victory would lead to the reign of the Antichrist.

"I want you to hear me tonight, I am not saying that President Obama is the Antichrist, I am not saying that at all. One reason I know he's not the Antichrist is the Antichrist is going to have much higher poll numbers when he comes," said Jeffress.

"President Obama is not the Antichrist. But what I am saying is this: the course he is choosing to lead our nation is paving the way for the future reign of the Antichrist."

Jeffress would go on to say that "it is time for Christians to stand up and to push back against this evil that is overtaking our nation" and to do so via "the ballot box."

This is not the first time that Jeffress has garnered controversy for his remarks regarding major political figures. During the Family Research Council's "Values Voters Summit" in October of last year, Jeffress called Mormonism a cult.
Follow us

"Mitt Romney is a Mormon, and don't let anybody tell you otherwise. Even though he talks about Jesus as his Lord and savior, he is not a Christian. Mormonism is not Christianity. Mormonism is a cult," said Jeffress, who was supporting Texas Gov. Rick Perry's bid to become the GOP presidential nominee.

"It's a little hypocritical for the last eight years to be talking about how important it is for us to elect a Christian president and then turn around and endorse a non-Christian."
Jeffress' remarks received much criticism, both for his refusal to vote for someone over their religious beliefs and because in the opinions of some there had been a different understanding as to what the word "cult" meant in the context Jeffress was using.

In an editorial for The Christian Post, Dr. Richard Land noted the disparity between how Jeffress used the word "cult" and how the public perceived it.
"The problem is that while Mormonism may technically be a cult theologically, in that it has moved well beyond the parameters of orthodox, apostle's creed Trinitarian Christianity, it does not behave as a cult culturally or socially," wrote Land.

"Most people would tell you that Mormons are solid citizens and among the nicest and most moral people they know."
Despite the statements made at the VVS in October, as Romney gained the nomination Jeffress proceeded to voice his support for the Mormon candidate.

"I haven't changed my tune In fact, I never said Christians should not vote for Mitt Romney. When I talked about his theology," said Jeffress in an interview with Fox News.

"I still maintain there are vast differences in theology between Mormons and Christians, but we do share many of the same values, like the sanctity of life and religious freedom."
So Obama is paving the way for the deciever of the nations? What book is he reading from?

Judge not lest you be judged right pastor?

We don't live in a theocracy. We live in a constitutional republic.
__________________

S65: 4.0 Liter, V8, 414 hp @8,300 rpm, 295 lb/ft @3900 rpm, 445 lb, DOHC, 12:1 C/R, crankshaft 44 lb, wet sump.
2 oil pumps,double vanos variable valve timing, EMS: MSS60, 8 electronically controlled individual throttle butterflies.
4 valves per cylinder, cracked trapezoidal connecting rods, brake energy regeneration. Ion-flow combustion monitoring.

phrozen06 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2012, 07:27 PM   #2
Lair
Modded ///Member
 
Lair's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Downtown
Posts: 320
My Ride: 330ciC
Texas/pastor.

Enough said.
__________________

Congratulations.
Lair is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2012, 07:31 PM   #3
MDydinanM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: East Coast
Posts: 751
My Ride: is a ///M
I don't understand why people get so bent out of shape, citing religious principles- even demonizing political figures (ITT "anti-christ), and not realize that one of the founding principles of America is the separation of church and state.

Then, we have politicians that score political points by pandering to these religious zealots by touting their own religious beliefs.

To top it off, they declare "religious freedom" for Americans, but then scorn the President of being "Muslim" or that this country is being taken over by minorities of different religions. Pretty hypocritical if you ask me. It appears the only religion they care about is Christianity - the freedom to practice whatever sect of it and not anything else. Heaven forbid if you're Muslim, Buddhist, Sikh, etc.

Last edited by MDydinanM; 11-12-2012 at 07:36 PM.
MDydinanM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2012, 07:51 AM   #4
casino is no lie
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: CDT
Posts: 76
My Ride: M54B30
Quote:
I want you to hear me tonight, I am not saying that President Obama is the Antichrist, I am not saying that at all...
phew
__________________
casino is no lie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2012, 08:16 AM   #5
Green_Shine
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: North
Posts: 373
My Ride: Back seat riding
OP - Post a pic of yourself so I can see what a real nut job looks like.
__________________
Green_Shine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2012, 08:21 AM   #6
hizhinezz
Outlier
 
hizhinezz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Boston
Posts: 2,511
My Ride: 01 330i
Quote:
Originally Posted by Green_Shine View Post
OP - Post a pic of yourself so I can see what a real nut job looks like.
Why part of his comments would you criticize?
__________________
hizhinezz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2012, 09:06 AM   #7
kaput
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Carlisle, PA
Posts: 738
My Ride: 2002 M3 SMG
Send a message via AIM to kaput
There are no words...
__________________

2002 M3
kaput is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2012, 09:10 AM   #8
SLVR JDM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Work
Posts: 1,519
My Ride: reclining rear seats
I disagree.




























Obama is the antichrist.
__________________


** Removed **

Last edited by SLVR JDM; 11-13-2012 at 09:10 AM.
SLVR JDM is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2012, 09:16 AM   #9
phrozen06
NA V8
 
phrozen06's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: 3927'33"N 7758'04"W
Posts: 7,490
My Ride: E46, E92 M3, R32 VW
Send a message via Yahoo to phrozen06
Quote:
Originally Posted by Green_Shine View Post
OP - Post a pic of yourself so I can see what a real nut job looks like.


It's the pastor who's the nut job not me.
__________________

S65: 4.0 Liter, V8, 414 hp @8,300 rpm, 295 lb/ft @3900 rpm, 445 lb, DOHC, 12:1 C/R, crankshaft 44 lb, wet sump.
2 oil pumps,double vanos variable valve timing, EMS: MSS60, 8 electronically controlled individual throttle butterflies.
4 valves per cylinder, cracked trapezoidal connecting rods, brake energy regeneration. Ion-flow combustion monitoring.


Last edited by phrozen06; 11-13-2012 at 10:54 AM.
phrozen06 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2012, 09:17 AM   #10
217Bimmer
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: IL
Posts: 143
My Ride: 2001 BMW 330i
good thing there's no such thing as god and christ died in waco texas in 1993
217Bimmer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2012, 10:14 AM   #11
Rhumb
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 98
My Ride: 2001 M3 Coupe
Quote:
Jeffress would go on to say that "it is time for Christians to stand up and to push back against this evil that is overtaking our nation" and to do so via "the ballot box."
Apparently, the voters did, hence Obama/Dems and not Romney/GOP prevailing.

Last edited by Rhumb; 11-14-2012 at 09:03 AM.
Rhumb is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2012, 10:22 AM   #12
kaput
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Carlisle, PA
Posts: 738
My Ride: 2002 M3 SMG
Send a message via AIM to kaput
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhumb View Post
[/SIZE]

Apparently, the voters did, hence Obama/Dems and not Romney/GOP prevailing.
So now the Dems are religious? This is a new development. When did this happen?
__________________

2002 M3
kaput is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2012, 11:13 AM   #13
casino is no lie
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: CDT
Posts: 76
My Ride: M54B30
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaput View Post
So now the Dems are religious? This is a new development. When did this happen?
Maybe since they weren't taking every opportunity to ram it down you throat and use it as a doctrine to restrict your life, you mistook it for being nonexistent.
__________________
casino is no lie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2012, 12:36 PM   #14
Rhumb
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 98
My Ride: 2001 M3 Coupe
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaput View Post
So now the Dems are religious? This is a new development. When did this happen?
Always have been, perhaps just not as doctrinaire and eager to impose their religion on others through direct or indirect government law as the GOP variety have all too often been of late.
Rhumb is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2012, 06:05 PM   #15
hizhinezz
Outlier
 
hizhinezz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Boston
Posts: 2,511
My Ride: 01 330i
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhumb View Post
Always have been, perhaps just not as doctrinaire and eager to impose their religion on others through direct or indirect government law as the GOP variety have all too often been of late.
Hey, how about that...

Catholicism, Judaism, Buddhism, Islam, Jainism, Hinduism, heck even some Christians like Unitarians (since we know "real" Christian don't consider us Catholics to be "real" Christians) actually vote blue much of the time.

The difference is for the most part, like the people who founded this country, we value religious freedom and equality over the mandate and legislation of our own beliefs...

To see things otherwise... well, to me that sounds more like fundamentalism.

The idea that the USA is a Christian nation is in direct conflict with the very precepts upon which the nation is founded. I sure know a lot of nice folks who are Protestant Christians, but boy some of those folks sure seem to thnk it's all about them.

And (to invoke your vernacular) it ain't.
__________________
hizhinezz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2012, 06:57 PM   #16
Raymond42262
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: The South
Posts: 456
My Ride: Is German
Quote:
Originally Posted by hizhinezz View Post
Hey, how about that...


The idea that the USA is a Christian nation is in direct conflict with the very precepts upon which the nation is founded. I sure know a lot of nice folks who are Protestant Christians, but boy some of those folks sure seem to thnk it's all about them.

And (to invoke your vernacular) it ain't.
No it is not. The country was based on Judaeo Christian values. Separation of Church and State means that the US will not have a state religion like they had in Europe. Many nations in Europe had Catholicism as the official religion and others were prosecuted or discriminated against. This also applied to Greek Orthodox, Eastern Orthodox, Jews, Baptists, French Huguenots, Protestants, The Church of England etc....

It does not mean that traditional Biblical values cannot be applied to making legislative decisions.
__________________
"The grand essentials to happiness in this life are something to do, someone to love, and something to hope for."....Joseph Addison
--------------------
Raymond42262 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-13-2012, 07:14 PM   #17
MDydinanM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: East Coast
Posts: 751
My Ride: is a ///M
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond42262 View Post

It does not mean that traditional Biblical values cannot be applied to making legislative decisions.
I disagree to a certain extent, simply because it can cause a conflict of interest since it can be seen as favoring Christianity when making laws and disregarding other religions. That, and since we tolerate religious freedom and religious equality, why should Christianity be the base for making US laws as opposed to other religion if all things are supposedly equal?

I'm not religious at all, so I'm just posing the question.

Good example is abortion where religion is in conflict with women wanting a right to choose.

I also understand that religion is one way we derive morals, but there are other theories of wrong/right such as from Greek philosophers (Golden mean, Socrates, Aristotle, etc)

Last edited by MDydinanM; 11-13-2012 at 07:22 PM.
MDydinanM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2012, 08:14 AM   #18
casino is no lie
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: CDT
Posts: 76
My Ride: M54B30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond42262 View Post
No it is not. The country was based on Judaeo Christian values.
That's a common misconception propagated by Christian Revisionists. Most of the Founding Fathers were Deists. And as we all know, Deism is the belief that reason and observation of the natural world are sufficient to determine the existence of a creator, accompanied with the rejection of revelation and authority as a source of religious knowledge.

__________________
casino is no lie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2012, 08:31 AM   #19
Lair
Modded ///Member
 
Lair's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Downtown
Posts: 320
My Ride: 330ciC
Still trying to sell the "christian founding fathers" lie, Raymond?

I thought we were past that.
__________________

Congratulations.
Lair is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2012, 09:11 AM   #20
Rhumb
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 98
My Ride: 2001 M3 Coupe
A nation predominently of Christians, yes, but a Christian nation? No.

The simple word "God" is not even to be found in the Constitution, much less the words "Christ" or "Christian." Were the intent of the founding fathers to found this as a "Christian nation," then why the reticence to even say so in our foundational documents? Rather, the Constitution only mentions religion proscriptively, not prescriptively.

Can individuals be inspired by and adopt their Christian values to broader body of laws? Of course and I would hope so, but that is different than implementing Christian, or any other religious, laws as our national laws, which is explicitly proscribed by the Constitution.
Rhumb is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Censor is ON





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:20 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
(c) 1999 - 2011 performanceIX Inc - privacy policy - terms of use