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Old 01-28-2013, 08:00 PM   #61
drbworld
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Lol, he reply a second fast
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Old 01-28-2013, 08:14 PM   #62
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Ok, will do and get back with you guys tomorrow. Thanks again
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Old 01-28-2013, 08:24 PM   #63
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Old 01-28-2013, 08:26 PM   #64
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Maxwell, that's exactly where I ran my jumper from. The B- to the starter body. That's when it wants to try to start, the voltage still drops but it attempts to start. I tested voltage at the B+/B- terminals and got 12+v. And checked the ground straps, good clean connections. The positive leads from the battery look good and healthy but I have not tried twisting or turning them to see if any corrosion. Although the terminals are very clean and no sign of acid or corrosion noticeable. It's got to be between the starter ground and the starter itself. How could the ground be bad at the starter which is bolted to the block when the ground strap from the engine to the frame is good and solid? Just asking

im thinking the other end of the circuit, between the battery and frame.


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Originally Posted by lcoleman View Post
B+ to the big terminal at the starter. Also try the engine block to the starter frame (test the engine ground cable). It is unlikely that the ground issue is directly at the starter IMO, afaik the starter bolts directly to the block and thus grounds itself through the case.
do this aswell
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Old 01-28-2013, 08:33 PM   #65
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You want the battery + terminal to starter. Test on both terminals on starter. The big one is the power from alternator/ battery and the small one is from the ignition switch. Make sure car is on neutral and key is ok last position on.
this i would not do. putting direct battery voltage to the switched side of the solenoid is a bad idea.
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Old 01-28-2013, 08:36 PM   #66
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this i would not do. putting direct battery voltage to the switched side of the solenoid is a bad idea.
Your kidding right? It's the same voltage. Lol. It just by passing the ignition switch. Look at diagram I posted.

Old school mechanics use to do this for testing. Just because you don't know about it doesn't mean it's a bad idea.

And looking at your other post, you just quoted icoleman who suggested the same as I did, and said try that too
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Old 01-28-2013, 08:49 PM   #67
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Your kidding right? It's the same voltage. Lol. It just by passing the ignition switch. Look at diagram I posted.

Old school mechanics use to do this for testing. Just because you don't know about it doesn't mean it's a bad idea.
i thought you meant put b+ straight to the starter motor.
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Old 01-28-2013, 09:05 PM   #68
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I didn't suggest directly connecting the battery to the small terminal (only the large, to bypass the main power cable), but I see no reason not to. I would just test for V at the terminal while attempting to crank, though.
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Old 01-28-2013, 09:06 PM   #69
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i thought you meant put b+ straight to the starter motor.
That's exactly what I'm saying. You can jump either from the positive wire like in the picture I posted or directly from the battery terminal. Which, for our cars would be the terminal near the passenger well. This way by passes the relay and is only used temp for testing purposes.
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Old 01-28-2013, 09:12 PM   #70
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Maxwell, icoleman, and drb world, back up in the thread a little and see where I have done this but the voltage still dropped to zero. I'll try to post a video tomorrow after work. Thanks
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Old 01-28-2013, 09:26 PM   #71
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I saw a couple of pictures where you testing volt, but I didn't see where you put a jumper wire directly as I described?

The reason I suggested this is to bypass any short circuit somewhere if that was a problem. Directly from the battery terminal will rule out your starter and if it cranks over.
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Old 01-28-2013, 09:46 PM   #72
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I think I figured it out. The starters tested good but possibly weren't strong enough to turn the engine. I turned the crank with a wrench and tried bumping with the key and it attempted to start. I still had the ground jumper on though. Maybe it was dropping to zero because the starter was too weak. Stinger, what're your thoughts?
The voltage would drop to zero because the battery is too weak. Not because the starter is too weak. If the starter was weak, it would not lower the battery voltage if the battery is sound.
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Old 01-28-2013, 09:48 PM   #73
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I'm going to add a ground strap from one of my stater bolts to the frame just for my personal satisfaction, ha. But could it have been possible that the starter was not strong enough to turn the flywheel therefore it was causing the volts to drop? And why would the solenoid make a clicking noise only when I had the ground jumper attached? Could I or should I be satisfied with this find? And should I replace with a BMW starter or will a napa one work. I've never had a problem like this out of a starter and the re-manned starter only worked for about three weeks and the no start issue happened again, this leading me away from a starter problem. Thanks for your time and input. It's always a help to have someone asking questions and giving suggestions. Keep you motivated and determined
What is this 'ground strap' you are talking about adding?
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Old 01-28-2013, 10:17 PM   #74
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I saw a couple of pictures where you testing volt, but I didn't see where you put a jumper wire directly as I described?
Yes, he did do that as I suggested at the beginning of him posting his problem to this thread.
And you are 100% correct, jumper to the ignition switch is done all the time. No problem.
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Old 01-28-2013, 11:17 PM   #75
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And you are 100% correct, jumper to the ignition switch is done all the time. No problem.
to be abundantly clear im ok with this, i thought he was telling him to put power directly to the starter motor with a loose wire. jumper away.
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Old 01-28-2013, 11:50 PM   #76
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I had the battery tested but I went ahead and exchanged for a new- didn't cost so why wouldn't I. Anyhow this is exactly the order of today and the results:
-I put new battery in, secured the terminals. I put my original starter back on(had it tested at autozone a couple of times last night). Connected all my starter terminals.
-I then used a pair of jumper cable(negative only) to jump from my B- terminal in the passenger storage well. I press the clutch, turn the key and the starter solenoid shoot the bendix out but it does not turn. It clicks once, all of my lights dim and it does not want to roll over.
-I then turn the crank with a wrench to see how it feel. It feels nice and smooth with good compression. Make about two rotations. Then I try to crank again with the key and it turns over an attempts to crank. Could've probably been stronger but it sounded good. Positive if everything were together it would have cranked. Just a little description, but the voltage was still dropping with that setup. I will attempt to post a short video after work tues.
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Old 01-29-2013, 12:23 AM   #77
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to be abundantly clear im ok with this, i thought he was telling him to put power directly to the starter motor with a loose wire. jumper away.
We're not here to beat up anyone over not completely understanding electricity. Most mechanics I know have only a rudimentary knowledge themselves. It is a confusing topic.
To be clear, it would be OK to jumper the ignition terminal on the starter motor from the hot lead on the starter itself, OR from a long jumper all the way from the positive battery terminal. Doesn't matter where you pull in the voltage from as long as the source is the car's storage battery.
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Old 01-29-2013, 12:33 AM   #78
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+1

We all learn something new everyday. I certainly do, especially on this forum. I try not to bash people, instead, I'm open minded to see if there's something I'm not sure about or new to learn.
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Old 01-29-2013, 12:37 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by Jspreezy View Post
I had the battery tested but I went ahead and exchanged for a new- didn't cost so why wouldn't I. Anyhow this is exactly the order of today and the results:
-I put new battery in, secured the terminals. I put my original starter back on(had it tested at autozone a couple of times last night). Connected all my starter terminals.
-I then used a pair of jumper cable(negative only) to jump from my B- terminal in the passenger storage well. I press the clutch, turn the key and the starter solenoid shoot the bendix out but it does not turn. It clicks once, all of my lights dim and it does not want to roll over.
-I then turn the crank with a wrench to see how it feel. It feels nice and smooth with good compression. Make about two rotations. Then I try to crank again with the key and it turns over an attempts to crank. Could've probably been stronger but it sounded good. Positive if everything were together it would have cranked. Just a little description, but the voltage was still dropping with that setup. I will attempt to post a short video after work tues.
Wow, you must be really good at removing and installing your starter motor at this point!
I want you around when mine eventually needs replacement.




I'll take you exactly at your word here as how you have described things in your car.
What you describe sounds like you definitely have a high resistance connection somewhere from your battery to your starter terminal. I've already walked you through checking all the connections along the way from the battery. Someone else also gave tips as to how to check for this.
If you had a thick jumper cable long enough to reach from the battery positive terminal all the way to the large starter terminal, you could jumper this to verify the above conclusion. Careful not to brush against ground!

When you measure the voltage, exactly where do you get your ground? You should be measuring to the engine block ground, not the chassis ground. This puts the engine block ground strap into the test.

I've requested other tests along the way and not gotten answers to all. I can only work with what you find in these tests.
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Old 01-29-2013, 11:33 AM   #80
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Ha, you guys are killing me. And yeah, I've got it down to a science...swivel extension after the socket, two six inch extensions, swivel and another six inch extension to the wrench. Go in over the transmission and once it's free drop it straight down. The most time consuming is removing the skid/frame plate underneath.
- I think the problem has hot to be my B+ terminal. Going to clean it really well and re fasten. Probably didn't clean and get tight enough when I did the engine swap. Must've worked lose and got a little rusty and dirty over about a year
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