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Gun Talk
Are you a gun fanatic as well? If so, you'll want to talk to other owners about what you own in this forum.

View Poll Results: Which Optic/Mod?
Kahles K16i 2 40.00%
Leupold VX-6 / Dinan Exhaust 1 20.00%
Vortex Razor / Dinan Exhaust 1 20.00%
Dinan Exhaust / Dinan Suspension / DINAN3 badge 1 20.00%
Voters: 5. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 05-18-2016, 10:01 PM   #1
Reedo302
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Optics and Mods Decision

It's time for my quarterly First-World Problems poll.
I just sold my Leupold Mark6 1-6x, as the illumination was finicky. I have been squarely set on getting a Leupold VX-6 1-6x Multigun for a while, but recently I have been tempted to get something else. Everyone keeps saying to get Vortex Razor HD GenII 1-6x, but I'm sort of not sold on it after having played with it. I'm going to the gun store tomorrow to check out some scope options, but I doubt I'll come up with a whole lot of answers.

I have a Steve Fisher course coming up next month, so it's shlt or get off the pot time.

Here's the deal, I have about $2,000 (+/- a little bit) to play with for a 1-_x optic with daylight visible illumination. I have a couple options for optics that I've stumbled across:
Leupold VX-6 1-6x Multigun CM-R2 $989
-least expensive
-quality glass and great warranty
-Some say the reticle isn't bright enough

Vortex Razor HD Gen2 1-6x $1259
-High end HD glass
-Several reticle choices for same price.
-eyebox "blinks" when you move your head side-to-side
-8oz/half pound heavier than all other scopes

Kahles K16i 1-6x $1750
-Glass and tech from Swarovski (the best)
-Brightest illumination of any scope
-No K16i has ever been returned for service (reliable)
-EXPENSIVE (above model is the SM2 discontinued model)

So here's the kicker-
I still need exhaust and suspension to get my DINAN3 badge. I got the Dinantronics and 20" Dinan wheels, so I'm halfway there. However, the exhaust and suspension are going to be around $2500.

Here are my options:
1. Kahles K16i
2. Leupold VX-6 1-6x Multigun CM-R2, Dinan Exhaust
3. Vortex Razor Gen2 1-6x, Dinan Exhaust
4. Dinan Exhaust, Suspension and get the DINAN3 badge
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Last edited by Reedo302; 05-18-2016 at 10:04 PM.
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Old 05-19-2016, 12:59 AM   #2
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Depends on your priorities, I guess. For me, I keep my car bone stock, so if I had extra cash to spend, it would be for a top tier optic rather than any mods for my car

...I'm still deciding on an optic for my AR as well...
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Old 05-19-2016, 11:41 AM   #3
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Is this going to be a duty gun? If so, buy the K16i. No reason to skimp on something you could go into battle with.

Otherwise, I've played with one of those Vortexes and its pretty damn awesome. The glass is really clear, though to be sure, it is pretty heavy and it does "blink" with lateral movement. But the blinking isn't extreme...you really have to get your head out of the focal plane to lose it, iirc.

I don't have experience with the Leopold. I imagine that its really a solid optic, given the company's reputation and my experience with other optics they make. So that's not a bad option at all. As far as the illumination, I really can't tell you. I might run by my shop this afternoon and if I do, I'll have a look in the case to see if they have one to compare to the Vortex.

Btw, post more pics of the car. Though this is the gun subforum, we now have a good reason to see more of the in-progress DINAN car. And I personally love the color anyway.
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Old 05-19-2016, 11:57 AM   #4
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This is what my car currently looks like:

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Last edited by Reedo302; 05-19-2016 at 12:08 PM.
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Old 05-19-2016, 12:50 PM   #5
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^^^
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Old 05-23-2016, 02:47 PM   #6
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Gun gear holds its value a hell of a lot better than car stuff
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Old 05-23-2016, 09:00 PM   #7
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IN for the final decision.
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Old 06-01-2016, 11:14 PM   #8
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Well, I made my decision...

If you guys are on Facebook, Dinan Engineering posted the car up on their main feed. They shared it from our local Dinan dealer, Eurotech Auto Service.












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Old 06-02-2016, 12:41 AM   #9
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Any vid's for the exhaust noise how does it sound to you?
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Old 06-02-2016, 01:08 AM   #10
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I got a vid from the shop right after they installed it. It's just of start-up. Dinan's video on YouTube is relatively accurate. It's not an overly loud exhaust, but it's not supposed to be. The exhaust has a good amount of low-end drone from about 1200-2200 RPM where it sounds deep and throaty, but not annoying. It gets kinda quiet after that until you get up to over 4500rpm. If at any point you go WOT, you can definitely hear the engine and exhaust note where it sounds like a high performance BMW engine. At WOT at the higher RPMs, it sounds like a BMW I-6. The interesting thing is that I can definitely hear the turbo more at WOT.

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Old 06-02-2016, 01:03 PM   #11
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Well, I made my decision...

If you guys are on Facebook, Dinan Engineering posted the car up on their main feed. They shared it from our local Dinan dealer, Eurotech Auto Service.












Looking good there Reedo302!
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Old 06-02-2016, 10:34 PM   #12
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Finally accomplished a dream to get a Dinan badged car. This is my third Bimmer, and I finally have the means to get a Badge. The E46 M3 I had in 2006-2007 and the E36/7 M Coupe in 2009-2010 were both far too expensive for me to fully modify with Dinan stuff at the time that I had them. Now that I'm in a better financial position, I am only kicking myself for not biting the bullet and getting the 335i instead of the 328i. Still, I love my car and am glad I fulfilled the dream. Only thing left right now is a BSW speaker upgrade (currently have HK sound).

The main reason why I waited was because I wanted to get the badge. The secondary reason was because there are several 1-8x scopes coming to market and I would much rather have one of them over a 1-6x. Minox recently dropped the ZP8 TAC, and S&B finally figured out their 1-8x PMII CC model. March has a 1-8x model that may or may not be daylight visible. Swarovski is about to release the Z8i 1-8x, and if they are doing that, a Kahles variant is close to follow since it's the same company.
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Old 12-21-2016, 01:57 PM   #13
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I'm bumping this thread because I need some advice/recommendations on a scope that won't break the bank (..maybe $500-ish dollars), has decent features for the price point, and is something that I can grow into. Being new to the long-gun game, I don't have enough experience to know what I should be looking for in a scope.
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Old 12-21-2016, 03:25 PM   #14
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I'm bumping this thread because I need some advice/recommendations on a scope that won't break the bank (..maybe $500-ish dollars), has decent features for the price point, and is something that I can grow into. Being new to the long-gun game, I don't have enough experience to know what I should be looking for in a scope.
What are you putting it on?
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Old 12-21-2016, 03:47 PM   #15
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What are you putting it on?
The Sig Sauer 716 Patrol rifle.
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Old 12-21-2016, 03:56 PM   #16
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What are you going to use it for?
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Old 12-21-2016, 05:01 PM   #17
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What are you going to use it for?
Hunting SamDoe1's.









...Target shooting somewhere between 300-500 yards. Nothing crazy.
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Old 12-21-2016, 11:12 PM   #18
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You have a couple options, but it's going to either be over or under budget.

Options:

Vortex StrikeEagle 1-6x... $329
This is sort of the benchmark for quality "economy" optics. It's got daylight visible illumination, and the glass is sufficient for intermediate range use. It's getting great reviews. The issue with this optic is that it's got limitations based on components. It's a good optic for a moderate-use hobby rifle, but for extensive use, you will start having issues. A good friend of mine is an instructor and SWAT cop in a rural county in Wisconsin, so he regularly needs magnification. He bought the StrikeEagle and took it to a Steve Fisher Practical Urban Carbine course, which requires shooting to 300yds. After the course, he immediately sold the optic and is saving for a higher end optic. He cited a dislike of optical flaws that one would notice with extended use. Fisheye distortion around the edges, lack of resolution at magnification, and moderate-to-poor light transmission in low light. For the short-term, this would likely be a fine optic. I would not expect this to be an optic that you would hold onto for 3-5 years though.

Leupold Mark AR Mod1 1.5-4x FireDot...$449
The glass on this scope is on par with the VX-2 line, and the FireDot LED illuminated reticle is just like a red dot (because it basically is). Of lower end scopes, this has best illumination, as it uses the same FireDot technology as with the VX-R and VX-6 line. The major downside is that the low end magnification is not True-1x.

Leupold VX-R Patrol 1.25-4x FireDot...$549
This is on par with the VX-3 line for optical quality, which is pretty good glass. This also has the FireDot technology, making it just like a red dot. This is not a True-1x, but it's a lot closer than the Mark AR model. It's a very good optic for the price given what it can do and how durable it is.

Burris XTR-II 1-5x...$699
This is a good scope that has exceptional durability and optical quality. It is daylight bright. It is on par with the Vortex Viper PST (Gen1) and similarly priced scopes. There is some distortion around the edges but it's minimal in the grand scheme.

Sig Sauer Tango6 1-6x...$699
These are on closeout right now on SWFA under promotions. Sig supposedly has a Gen2 Tango6 dropping at SHOT Show, so these optics are being flushed out. They're normally $1399. The Tango6 is made with the same glass and at the same factory as the Vortex Razor HD GenII 1-6x, so it's a quality optic. This is probably the best deal on the internet right now.

Vortex Viper PST Gen2 1-6x...$999 MSRP...likely $699 retail
Initial reports are that this scope is going to be a substantial upgrade to the PST line. It is likely going to THE scope that everyone is going to be talking about at SHOT Show 2017. Unfortunately, this scope will likely be impossible to get before March or April due to high demand.

Trijicon AccuPower 1-4x...$765
This is further out of the price range, but it's basically the lowest one I would buy personally (excluding the Sig Tango6 since it's on closeout). The optical quality is excellent for the price point, and the illumination is very good and daylight visible. It's also a very rugged optic. I heard someone "in the know" allude to a possible 1-6x AccuPower being in development. Whether we see it at SHOT is a big "IF", but it's something to keep in mind.
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Old 12-21-2016, 11:20 PM   #19
M3Inline6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reedo302 View Post
You have a couple options, but it's going to either be over or under budget.

Options:

Vortex StrikeEagle 1-6x... $329
This is sort of the benchmark for quality "economy" optics. It's got daylight visible illumination, and the glass is sufficient for intermediate range use. It's getting great reviews. The issue with this optic is that it's got limitations based on components. It's a good optic for a moderate-use hobby rifle, but for extensive use, you will start having issues. A good friend of mine is an instructor and SWAT cop in a rural county in Wisconsin, so he regularly needs magnification. He bought the StrikeEagle and took it to a Steve Fisher Practical Urban Carbine course, which requires shooting to 300yds. After the course, he immediately sold the optic and is saving for a higher end optic. He cited a dislike of optical flaws that one would notice with extended use. Fisheye distortion around the edges, lack of resolution at magnification, and moderate-to-poor light transmission in low light. For the short-term, this would likely be a fine optic. I would not expect this to be an optic that you would hold onto for 3-5 years though.

Leupold Mark AR Mod1 1.5-4x FireDot...$449
The glass on this scope is on par with the VX-2 line, and the FireDot LED illuminated reticle is just like a red dot (because it basically is). Of lower end scopes, this has best illumination, as it uses the same FireDot technology as with the VX-R and VX-6 line. The major downside is that the low end magnification is not True-1x.

Leupold VX-R Patrol 1.25-4x FireDot...$549
This is on par with the VX-3 line for optical quality, which is pretty good glass. This also has the FireDot technology, making it just like a red dot. This is not a True-1x, but it's a lot closer than the Mark AR model. It's a very good optic for the price given what it can do and how durable it is.

Burris XTR-II 1-5x...$699
This is a good scope that has exceptional durability and optical quality. It is daylight bright. It is on par with the Vortex Viper PST (Gen1) and similarly priced scopes. There is some distortion around the edges but it's minimal in the grand scheme.

Sig Sauer Tango6 1-6x...$699
These are on closeout right now on SWFA under promotions. Sig supposedly has a Gen2 Tango6 dropping at SHOT Show, so these optics are being flushed out. They're normally $1399. The Tango6 is made with the same glass and at the same factory as the Vortex Razor HD GenII 1-6x, so it's a quality optic. This is probably the best deal on the internet right now.

Vortex Viper PST Gen2 1-6x...$999 MSRP...likely $699 retail
Initial reports are that this scope is going to be a substantial upgrade to the PST line. It is likely going to THE scope that everyone is going to be talking about at SHOT Show 2017. Unfortunately, this scope will likely be impossible to get before March or April due to high demand.

Trijicon AccuPower 1-4x...$765
This is further out of the price range, but it's basically the lowest one I would buy personally (excluding the Sig Tango6 since it's on closeout). The optical quality is excellent for the price point, and the illumination is very good and daylight visible. It's also a very rugged optic. I heard someone "in the know" allude to a possible 1-6x AccuPower being in development. Whether we see it at SHOT is a big "IF", but it's something to keep in mind.
Thanks for this in-depth write-up. I noticed that there are 4 separate Sig Tango 6's on SWFA going for $699. Which one are you referring to specifically?

https://swfa.com/optics/browse.html?promotions=6822

I found this Leupold Mark AR mod 1 1.5x4x 20mm on Calguns. Is $240 a good deal?
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Originally Posted by Qwel on "Manhattan Project"
You heard of me.....burgandy and outlines like murder scenes; Germany..took ferns and flat whites for blurring greens.

Last edited by M3Inline6; 12-21-2016 at 11:23 PM.
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Old 12-21-2016, 11:55 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by M3Inline6 View Post
Thanks for this in-depth write-up. I noticed that there are 4 separate Sig Tango 6's on SWFA going for $699. Which one are you referring to specifically?

https://swfa.com/optics/browse.html?promotions=6822

I found this Leupold Mark AR mod 1 1.5x4x 20mm on Calguns. Is $240 a good deal?
I would go for one with a milrad reticle, or the one with the 3-gun reticle. The difference is all in which reticle you want.

That Mark AR has no illumination, which is why it's so much cheaper than the one I listed. I would not personally get it. Without the FireDot, the Mark AR loses its appeal.

If you're looking to save money now, and upgrade later, the StrikeEagle is likely a better option for you. I would probably take the StrikeEagle over the Mark AR regardless due to the higher magnification. The optical issues in the StrikeEagle are also in the Mark AR. I have not looked through a StrikeEagle yet, but I have spent time behind a Mark AR and they do have some outside distortion and diminished resolution at magnification. The thing is that 4x is a lower number and requires less movement, so the diminished resolution is less noticeable than if it were at 6x. For me, the only selling point to the Mark AR is the FireDot, which is a superior illumination system.
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