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///M3 Forum
The BMW E46 ///M3 is the M version E46 and puts out an amazing 333 HP and 262 lb-ft of torque at stock specs! There are an amazing amount of modifications for both the coupe and convertible models so read up and get started modifying your cars today!

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Old 11-20-2012, 10:36 AM   #41
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You miss the point of a "supercar" if all you are talking about is performance. While the GTR will certainly outperform many higher-priced cars from Ferrari, Lamborghini, and Aston Martin (to name just 3), there is a certain emotional and visceral reaction that these cars must produce. It this context, a Ferrari 458 has "soul", history, and real character that the sterile GTR will never match, no matter how superbly engineered it is. The Ferrari stands as the realization of one man's vision, with all of its flaws and shortcomings. The GTR is a brilliant car, albeit one engineered by a committee. It has no real flaws, but it also lacks passion. It also lacks beauty and presence. It remains a Nissan, despite its performance credentials and price.
While I agree 100 percent that Ferrari has more soul than a Nissan, especially the Ferrari F40 my favorite car of all time, the point I'm trying to make is that the GTR maintenance costs and intervals are going to be similar to a supercar because of all the engineering that's gone into it. In order to outperform all of those expensive, emotion filled supercars, it has to be properly maintained. If people think a 300 dollar oil change is absurd... an oil change for an E46 M3 will run you $120 in just parts... Add another $100 on top of that to have the dealer do it, and that's just for a 6 year old M3.. So the $300 GTR oil change seems a little more justifiable now...
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Old 11-20-2012, 10:52 AM   #42
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Hasn't Bolt already wrecked a e93M and other various cars?


b cyrus---- Seriously... They only come in AT?! That can't be right....I hope.
Yes and he'll probably wreck this one too.

BTW OP get the GT-R. It's your money and no one else's.
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Old 11-20-2012, 11:02 PM   #43
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I still disagree with you. Its too much premium you're giving to the dealer for the change, and what dealer are you going to take this too? Is there a special dealership or do you just go to Nissan?
And if they are taking it to same dealership as nissan versa, whats so special in the changing of oil. Dont tell me the filter is $100 because its still a car or do they bring their own GTR certified mechanic just for this car (Top Mechanic of the shop)?
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Old 11-20-2012, 11:23 PM   #44
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its still a nissan.


just wait for the m4 if your gonna drop 50k. by then youd save up to atleast 64k
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Old 11-21-2012, 01:37 AM   #45
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I still disagree with you. Its too much premium you're giving to the dealer for the change, and what dealer are you going to take this too? Is there a special dealership or do you just go to Nissan?
And if they are taking it to same dealership as nissan versa, whats so special in the changing of oil. Dont tell me the filter is $100 because its still a car or do they bring their own GTR certified mechanic just for this car (Top Mechanic of the shop)?
The filter isn't $100, it's actually the cheapest part at around 20 bucks. It's the GTR specific motor oil that's a little more expensive and the motor requires 6-7 quarts. The labor is still the same as any other Nissan (maybe just a tad more). This isn't a real shock considering BMW also has Castrol TWS for M cars going for about $16 a liter. $300 is the average estimated price, many dealers will do the full job for 200-$250. Like I said before, this is how much a BMW dealership will usually charge for an oil change on an M car.. I really don't know what the big fuss is over GTR oil change prices. I think it's just one small reason to cling on to this GTR hate .
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Old 11-23-2012, 09:09 AM   #46
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Im just saying you are overstating the cost by alot
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Old 11-23-2012, 09:20 AM   #47
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Lol at people arguing worrying about maintenance on $80k + car.....You should NOT buy that New Ferrari because gas prices going up..
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Old 11-28-2012, 10:20 AM   #48
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[QUOTE=someguy_99;14916643]Is there a special dealership or do you just go to Nissan?QUOTE]

In a way, yes. About a year ago i managed to speak w/ the owner of our local nissan dealership, and asked him "when are you guys gonna get in a gt-r?" his response was that they're not. the dealership itself has to have and maintain certain sales goals that they have to meet to even be considered for it. once they are "allowed" to sell one, then they have to send their tech(s) to be certified to work on them and then get the appropriate tools and software. fast forward to about 3 months ago, i ran into the only person in our city who has a gt-r (bought it in vegas), he hasn't had to have service done yet, but he's gonna have to go out of state, because there is no nissan dealership qualified to work on it.
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Old 11-29-2012, 09:07 AM   #49
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Trust me on this mate, the GT-R is a BEAST. People often talk BS about it but as soon as they test drive it they sew their mouths with copper wire. The car's stock performance is amazing but the truly epic thing is what it's capable of after modifications. The car is a beast with crazy potential and an amazing platform. I love the E46 M3 but I say go for it.
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Old 11-29-2012, 01:56 PM   #50
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Trust me on this mate, the GT-R is a BEAST. People often talk BS about it but as soon as they test drive it they sew their mouths with copper wire. The car's stock performance is amazing but the truly epic thing is what it's capable of after modifications. The car is a beast with crazy potential and an amazing platform. I love the E46 M3 but I say go for it.

Its a beast alright-a beast with no soul.
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Old 11-30-2012, 07:44 PM   #51
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Damn I have been reading the comments and I am uphauled that so many people freak out about maintenance costs. What kind of car forum is this where people can't even do a simple oil change or brake swap themselves?

Anything and everything is on the internet, a simple google search usually clears up any issues I have when working on my own vehicles; and I am by no means a car mechanic.
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Old 12-01-2012, 09:45 AM   #52
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Meh...

Sell your M

Buy 996 Turbo or GT3 > Nissan
My buddy traded his GTR for the 996 Turbo GT3, and missed his 2010 GTR so much he went and bought the 2013 GTR. He said the 996 Turbo is a fast car and fun to drive, but he said the GTR hands down he liked better. But he has both cars so he's a lucky sob!!! lol
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Old 12-01-2012, 10:08 AM   #53
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Its a beast alright-a beast with no soul.
How can you say this car has no soul???!!! This car has never been available in the United States. It is a LUXURY to have any super car and this car DEFINITELY classifies as a super car. Performance, limited availibility, sheer shock and awe of a car like this itself. How can you justify a comment like this when you have never lived in a location that has the support or pure love affair and passion of a specific product??

It's performance is top notch, it's price is top tier and the necessary cost of owning one are to be expected just like any other supercar. This car is a blast to drive, it is a luxury item that IF you can afford it is certainly a pleasure to own.

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Is there a special dealership or do you just go to Nissan?
And if they are taking it to same dealership as nissan versa, whats so special in the changing of oil. Dont tell me the filter is $100 because its still a car or do they bring their own GTR certified mechanic just for this car (Top Mechanic of the shop)?
Lamborghini is owned by Volkswagen.... You can most certainly take your Lamborghini into a VW dealership. It is the cost of the PARTS AND LABOR not the specific mechanic doing the servicing. Volkswagen Service Technicians are cross trained to work on Audi and Lamborghini as well as Volkswagens. Almost all of the highly accredited and sought after mechanics for Lamborghini Service Technicians started where?? You guessed it at VOLKSWAGEN Service Centers.


BUT it is still a materialistic item that like most of us have are simply a LUXURY not a NECESSITY! Do you need a Rolex, a Breitling?? A Ferrari or a Aston Martin?? A Skater or an MTI??? IF you can afford it, be well and enjoy it. You most certainly are not questioning the cost of owning a LUXURY. It is a choice.
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Old 12-02-2012, 12:09 PM   #54
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How can you say this car has no soul???!!! This car has never been available in the United States. It is a LUXURY to have any super car and this car DEFINITELY classifies as a super car. Performance, limited availibility, sheer shock and awe of a car like this itself. How can you justify a comment like this when you have never lived in a location that has the support or pure love affair and passion of a specific product??

It's performance is top notch, it's price is top tier and the necessary cost of owning one are to be expected just like any other supercar. This car is a blast to drive, it is a luxury item that IF you can afford it is certainly a pleasure to own.

In Toronto, I have driven this car a number of times (2009-2011) models. It is a stupendously fast car and the performance is unparalleled at its price range.
However it is never engaging as driving a Porsche GT3. It is like playing a game of Gran Turismo.

1. First mistake is not having this car with an option for manual. Yes- the times are faster but you lack the connection to the road.

2. The information on the clusters are first class and you can make all kinds of adjustments- but that's the problem with this car- you want to just drive a car without having to fidget with the options all day long. Too many electronics means too much of the car driving you and not the other way around.

3. Any forced induction system on a car like this robs it of its real soul. That is why I prefer the N/A S54 engine and any N/A Porsche engine or N/A engine altogether. Speed isn't everything.

4. The looks are nothing to brag about- a super glorified Cobalt from the rear. Hard straight lines that are totally macho but also cold in nature and lacking any of the special curves that outline a Ferrari, Aston, Lambo etc.

5. Lastly the interior is a disappointment if you would even consider this as an exotic. You get what you pay for- most of the money going into the performance factor but that's about it. It is a Nissan- a superb and great overachiever that exceeds most expectations for performance. Yet soul is more than just numbers. For the price it is amazing. If you can afford more, then go for a better option.

Cheers,

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Old 12-02-2012, 02:57 PM   #55
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Aren't used GT-Rs relatively "inexpensive" compared to brand new? You could probably sell your M3, buy a used GT-R and have money left over.

Nada say the retail for that car, with those miles, in great shape is $68,225. could you get more than 20k for the M3? If so, then I bet you could find a GT-R for well under 68k and definitely have a little cash left over.
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Old 12-03-2012, 09:34 AM   #56
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How can you say this car has no soul???!!! This car has never been available in the United States. It is a LUXURY to have any super car and this car DEFINITELY classifies as a super car. Performance, limited availibility, sheer shock and awe of a car like this itself. How can you justify a comment like this when you have never lived in a location that has the support or pure love affair and passion of a specific product??

It's performance is top notch, it's price is top tier and the necessary cost of owning one are to be expected just like any other supercar. This car is a blast to drive, it is a luxury item that IF you can afford it is certainly a pleasure to own.



Lamborghini is owned by Volkswagen.... You can most certainly take your Lamborghini into a VW dealership. It is the cost of the PARTS AND LABOR not the specific mechanic doing the servicing. Volkswagen Service Technicians are cross trained to work on Audi and Lamborghini as well as Volkswagens. Almost all of the highly accredited and sought after mechanics for Lamborghini Service Technicians started where?? You guessed it at VOLKSWAGEN Service Centers.


BUT it is still a materialistic item that like most of us have are simply a LUXURY not a NECESSITY! Do you need a Rolex, a Breitling?? A Ferrari or a Aston Martin?? A Skater or an MTI??? IF you can afford it, be well and enjoy it. You most certainly are not questioning the cost of owning a LUXURY. It is a choice.
Not available in the United States? If that is so, why do I see them with some frequency on the streets in Miami? The fact is that they are available here, and at a relatively decent price, given the performance.

You say that it is a blast to drive. Can we presume that you have actually driven one, or are you merely presuming that it must be fun to drive based upon its published performance figures? If you have driven one, how was this accomplished if you maintain the car isn't available in the US?

I will grant you that the performance is squarely in the supercar realm, but it doesn't really produce the "shock and awe" in most of us that it does for you. I respect the performance capabilities, but the car is neither beautiful enough (I think it borders on being ugly, frankly) nor shockingly different enough (think Lamborghini Miura or Countach) to set anybody's heart aflutter. People who know cars know that the GTR is a special car. Those who don't will only see a (relatively unattractive) Nissan.

We all know that Audi owns Lamborghini, and that Audi engineers have played a role in the development of the most recent Lambos; however there is a difference between owning a company and being that company. Fiat owns both Ferrari and Maserati, but that is not to say that a Ferrari 458 is a Fiat. Similarly, Audi currently owns Lamborghini, but the only real "bleed-through" in terms of models is the Gallardo and Audi R8. More to the point, both Ferrari and Lamborghini started as independent companies, and retain independent headquarters and factories. The GTR isn't made by a company owned by Nissan. It is made by Nissan. You may consider that an insignificant detail, but it is the collection of details like that, like thoroughbred history and the like, that are necessary ingredients for a real supercar.

Finally, the best-performing car is not always the one that is the most engaging and fun to drive. By the time you have reached the point where computers are making the decisions that a skilled driver would prefer to make for himself, you have a car that will go around a circuit very fast, but that isn't very rewarding to drive. The GTR is doubtlessly faster than a Porsche 911, maybe even in GT3 guise, but I would rather drive the Porsche. As a disclaimer I will note that I have not driven the GTR, but I have driven 911's.

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Old 12-03-2012, 10:47 AM   #57
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Not available in the United States? If that is so, why do I see them with some frequency on the streets in Miami? The fact is that they are available here, and at a relatively decent price, given the performance.

You say that it is a blast to drive. Can we presume that you have actually driven one, or are you merely presuming that it must be fun to drive based upon its published performance figures? If you have driven one, how was this accomplished if you maintain the car isn't available in the US?

If you want to talk about the "history or soul" of these cars you have to go back in the model years. The R33 and R34 version of the GT-R has a backing of loyal enthusiasts. These vehicles were NEVER made available for retail sale in the United States. Think before you speak and READ what was spoken about. The NEWEST model GT-R is the ONLY version that has been made available for RETAIL sales in the United States, period.

I speak from personal experience owning a 1999 R-34 version and a 2010 GT-R. So I would assume my "experience" with these cars is first hand.

Maybe before you want to spout off you should look at the context of the conversation. I own E46 M3's and love them, I own Nissan's and love them. I was DIRECTLY speaking of the comment regarding lack of SOUL AND PASSION as you put it.

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I will grant you that the performance is squarely in the supercar realm, but it doesn't really produce the "shock and awe" in most of us that it does for you. I respect the performance capabilities, but the car is neither beautiful enough (I think it borders on being ugly, frankly)

People who know cars know that the GTR is a special car. Those who don't will only see a (relatively unattractive) Nissan.
I will let YOUR OWN WORDS speak for itself.......
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Old 12-03-2012, 11:00 AM   #58
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5. Lastly the interior is a disappointment if you would even consider this as an exotic. You get what you pay for- most of the money going into the performance factor but that's about it. It is a Nissan- a superb and great overachiever that exceeds most expectations for performance. Yet soul is more than just numbers. For the price it is amazing. If you can afford more, then go for a better option.

Cheers,

Zen
This is VERY true. The fit and finish of this car is lacking. Performance is NOT the issue, this car outperforms most in the numbers.

I was simply referencing the 'lack of soul and passion" comment. Maybe it struck a nerve as I have been passionate with these cars for YEARS!
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Old 12-03-2012, 11:30 AM   #59
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Aren't used GT-Rs relatively "inexpensive" compared to brand new? You could probably sell your M3, buy a used GT-R and have money left over.
The problem is most of the preowned GT-R's have not been well kept. MOST of the "trade in" cars at dealerships we all know what has happened to them. They have become a "weekend" car for the GM's, Sales Managers and have been ridden hard and put away wet. The low mile cars and cars with verifiable service history are still pulling a premium.

BTW.... LOVED your comment on the "Am I Fast" thread!!! CLASSIC!!!!
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Old 12-03-2012, 11:34 AM   #60
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The problem is most of the preowned GT-R's have not been well kept. MOST of the "trade in" cars at dealerships we all know what has happened to them. They have become a "weekend" car for the GM's, Sales Managers and have been ridden hard and put away wet. The low mile cars and cars with verifiable service history are still pulling a premium.

BTW.... LOVED your comment on the "Am I Fast" thread!!! CLASSIC!!!!
Ah, that makes sense and that's too bad. Sad that we can't always get decent used cars in the performance world! But, there's always something out there, so there's definitely a chance.

Haha, my comment was me being bored... I haven't been on here in awhile, so I'd figure I'd make up for lost time.
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