E46 BMW Social Directory E46 FAQ 3-Series Discussion Forums BMW Photo Gallery BMW 3-Series Technical Information E46 Fanatics - The Ultimate BMW Resource BMW Vendors General E46 Forum The Tire Rack's Tire Wheel Forum Forced Induction Forum The Off-Topic The E46 BMW Showroom For Sale, For Trade or Wanting to Buy

Welcome to the E46Fanatics forums. E46Fanatics is the premiere website for BMW 3 series owners around the world with interactive forums, a geographical enthusiast directory, photo galleries, and technical information for BMW enthusiasts.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.

Go Back   E46Fanatics > E46 BMW > General E46 Forum

General E46 Forum
This is the place to get answers, opinions and everything you need related to your E46 (sedan, coupe, convertible and wagon) BMW!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 02-11-2013, 04:07 PM   #1
Redflea
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: SoCal
Posts: 177
My Ride: 2005 330Ci/2003 530i
Dealer says can not program my car due to aftermarket radio?!

Just got a call from the dealer, who has my wife's car to change some programmable settings and do an update.

Dealer says they can not program the car - that the programming process starts with the radio and their programming SW crashes every time it starts the radio portion.

The unit in the car is a JVC KW-NT1 (http://support.jvc.com/consumer/prod...lId=MODL028476) that the previous owner installed.

Any ideas? Has anyone else had problems programming (DIY or at dealer) due to an aftermarket radio? This seems odd that something like that would stop the programming process cold.

Any ideas on a work-around?

Thanks!

Last edited by Redflea; 02-11-2013 at 04:15 PM.
Redflea is offline   Reply With Quote
Ads by Google

Guests, get your FREE E46Fanatics.com membership to remove this ad.
Old 02-11-2013, 04:30 PM   #2
Zell
Registered User
 
Zell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Such City
Posts: 5,732
My Ride: '02 Dogemobile Shibe
What year is your wife's car? Later model BMWs switched to the MOST and Byteflight bus systems, which use a fiber-optic technology that runs in a ring topology and star topology, respectively. Breaks in the ring will cause other devices to not work properly. Each device in the ring, including the radio, relays data back to the ECU. Byteflight doesn't have that problem since it's a star, but those are for airbags, DSC, etc.

If that's the case, you will need to use a MOST bus jumper to maintain the ring topology.

If the car is an E46, well, I don't know why the radio would cause it to crash. I didn't think you could even talk to the radio using diagnostic software.
__________________

Last edited by Zell; 02-11-2013 at 04:31 PM.
Zell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2013, 04:35 PM   #3
Nerdy46
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 837
My Ride: 328i
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zell View Post
What year is your wife's car? Later model BMWs switched to the MOST and Byteflight bus systems, which use a fiber-optic technology that runs in a ring topology and star topology, respectively. Breaks in the ring will cause other devices to not work properly. Each device in the ring, including the radio, relays data back to the ECU. Byteflight doesn't have that problem since it's a star, but those are for airbags, DSC, etc.

If that's the case, you will need to use a MOST bus jumper to maintain the ring topology.

If the car is an E46, well, I don't know why the radio would cause it to crash. I didn't think you could even talk to the radio using diagnostic software.
Good info.
__________________
Daily: 1999 328i (202k)- Sport and winter package, 5speed, Jet Black, hellbeige, e60 Short throw, cross drilled rotors, koni, H&R, ASA AR1, Vibrant stealth, basslink
Track: 1995 Mustang GT (230k)- 306ci, 5 speed, MGW shifter, Trickflow Heads, Trickflow intake, street cam, shaved and tucked engine bay, slammed, 1 3/4'' long tubes, tuned with moates.
On the Water: 7' Boneyard Retro Quad Fish
Nerdy46 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2013, 04:35 PM   #4
Redflea
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: SoCal
Posts: 177
My Ride: 2005 330Ci/2003 530i
:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zell View Post
What year is your wife's car? Later model BMWs switched to the MOST and Byteflight bus systems, which use a fiber-optic technology that runs in a ring topology and star topology, respectively. Breaks in the ring will cause other devices to not work properly. Each device in the ring, including the radio, relays data back to the ECU. Byteflight doesn't have that problem since it's a star, but those are for airbags, DSC, etc.

If that's the case, you will need to use a MOST bus jumper to maintain the ring topology.

If the car is an E46, well, I don't know why the radio would cause it to crash. I didn't think you could even talk to the radio using diagnostic software.
Thanks, it's a 2005 vert 330ci. I didn't think the SW would talk to the radio either.

So regarding the jumper you mention, are you implying I may be able to fix this issue by modifying the JVC install.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Bimmer App

Last edited by Redflea; 02-11-2013 at 04:51 PM.
Redflea is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2013, 07:14 PM   #5
swaggerwagon
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: charlotte
Posts: 324
My Ride: 2005 330i
The radio can be selected to not program the radio. The dealer is misleading you. ISTA P has the option to select what gets programed and what doesnt. They are just being lazy.
__________________
330i ZHP

3 Pedals FTW

BMW level 2 Tech

Ebay headers | Long tube CAI | modbargains ///M pedal covers | SS clutch line | CDV removed | Turner camber arms | Meyle HD FCABs | uuc poly motor/trans mounts | Eurospec Muffler | Clutch masters Stage 2 with aluminum flywheel | Coilover kit | CSL front bumper | Z4m shift lever | VISracing CF hood | Depo HID w/CCFL halo rings
swaggerwagon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2013, 07:30 PM   #6
TerraPhantm
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Mountain Top
Posts: 5,942
My Ride: 2005 M3 Coupe
This is actually true - at least with Progman. Before the computer shows any screens, it polls every module to see how they're configured. If one of the modules doesn't respond, the system halts and doesn't let you proceed. Poor software design, but they're not lying.
TerraPhantm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2013, 07:38 PM   #7
jfoj
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Fairfax, VA USA
Posts: 10,581
My Ride: '06 330CiC, '03 M5
E46 C/K bus will communicate with the radio. How do you think the steering wheel controls for the radio?

Likely what happened is when the aftermarket radio was installed the C/K bus wire was connected to something on the new radio harness and the bus is clamped and this can cause problems with some tools reading either the OBD stream and/or communication with other modules on the C/K bus.

Simple test is to pull the radio and unplug the connector to the aftermarket head unit and see if the modules/programming can be accomplished. If so, then figure out what wire you need to disconnect and tape off.
__________________
Solve your misfires, lean codes, rough idle - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=897616

Fuel pump failures - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=929501

Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temps, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose fan switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299
jfoj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2013, 09:27 PM   #8
damienkim
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: bayside
Posts: 6
My Ride: 2003 330i zhp MBM
i agree- if you have the stock head unit, install it back program it and reinstall the aftermarket one- that way the dealer wouldnt give you any fuzz- its not misleading, but i think just in case something goes wrong, they dont have to be liable..
damienkim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2013, 09:50 PM   #9
TerraPhantm
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Mountain Top
Posts: 5,942
My Ride: 2005 M3 Coupe
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfoj View Post
E46 C/K bus will communicate with the radio. How do you think the steering wheel controls for the radio?

Likely what happened is when the aftermarket radio was installed the C/K bus wire was connected to something on the new radio harness and the bus is clamped and this can cause problems with some tools reading either the OBD stream and/or communication with other modules on the C/K bus.

Simple test is to pull the radio and unplug the connector to the aftermarket head unit and see if the modules/programming can be accomplished. If so, then figure out what wire you need to disconnect and tape off.
This is not the case. The stock radio simply not being present is enough to throw it off. If you have progman try it yourself -- unplug the radio and then start connecting to the car. Eventually it'll say something to the effect of "the following modules would not respond: RAD"
TerraPhantm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2013, 09:56 PM   #10
jfoj
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Fairfax, VA USA
Posts: 10,581
My Ride: '06 330CiC, '03 M5
I have not tried that and I do not think I will be pulling my radio in the near future to prove this.

If not having the radio present causes Progman to stall, this is a software issue with Progman, not an issue with the radio being removed.

I would bet that BMW Scanner 1.4.0 would not have an issue programming modules as long as the C/K bus is working and communicating with the modules.
__________________
Solve your misfires, lean codes, rough idle - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=897616

Fuel pump failures - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=929501

Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temps, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose fan switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299
jfoj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2013, 10:29 PM   #11
Zell
Registered User
 
Zell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Such City
Posts: 5,732
My Ride: '02 Dogemobile Shibe
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redflea View Post
:

Thanks, it's a 2005 vert 330ci. I didn't think the SW would talk to the radio either.

So regarding the jumper you mention, are you implying I may be able to fix this issue by modifying the JVC install.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Bimmer App
In that case, you have your regular copper-wire system that everyone is accustomed to. Strange, I've never heard of your issue happening before.

The new fiber-optic system was implemented due to the increased demand of high-bandwidth applications running simultaneously, such as HD video, GPS, bluetooth, etc. The K-Bus standard cannot handle all of that at one time, so they moved to a new one that can. Because fiber-optic literally runs at the speed of light, bandwidth is much higher. Many car manufacturers now use it, but BMW was one of the first adopters.

Safety systems use their own fiber-optic system, but it is much more resilient for obvious reasons. This system is BMW-specific and is called Byteflight. One of the benefits is that systems can theoretically react faster and use more complex algorithms to determine airbag deployment, DSC operation, etc. This is especially true of DSC, since DSC in new cars now takes in tons of things into account. If you have xDrive and active steering, DSC will do all sorts of things to try and correct your path, from sending power to different wheels to changing the steering rack ratio to braking wheels. All that processing needs an accurate and high-bandwidth communication. Byteflight achieves this.

The fiber optic cable is actually made of plastic, which greatly reduces costs, but if you bend it too much then you'll screw up its internal reflection and that's not a good thing. It should be treated similarly to fiber optic cables in networking.

Fun fact, Ethernet would be used as a standard since it can handle the high-bandwidth requirements of new car technologies, but the constant vibrations of cars will actually cause the connectors to eventually wear out and reduce their connectivity. So, fiber-optic was the solution.
__________________
Zell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2013, 10:49 PM   #12
lovemy330ci
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: NYC
Posts: 482
My Ride: 2001 330ci topaz blu
Oem radio for sale if you need one
__________________
lovemy330ci is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2013, 11:38 PM   #13
Redflea
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: SoCal
Posts: 177
My Ride: 2005 330Ci/2003 530i
Thanks very much for the interesting discussion and information. I don't have the stock radio, previous owner did the install (or had someone do it) and I didn't get any of the original radio bits w/the car when I bought it.

I am hoping that BMW Scanner and NCS Expert will allow me to get around this issue when I get those systems in hand and apply them.

In the meantime I'll be talking w/BMW tomorrow, because when I picked up the car the airbag warning icon was lit up. I assume their aborted attempt to program my could not affect the airbag and it's likely a coincidence? Seems like if the program shuts down when polling modules for status that it would not have a chance to mess anything up. Make sense?
Redflea is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Censor is ON





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:16 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
(c) 1999 - 2011 performanceIX Inc - privacy policy - terms of use