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Old 11-27-2012, 03:55 PM   #41
DylloS
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More details please, especially on diet and exercise techniques. Finally a helpful answer.
Finally a helpful answer? Yes I agree it was a good post but so were a lot of others.
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Old 11-27-2012, 04:11 PM   #42
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Finally a helpful answer? Yes I agree it was a good post but so were a lot of others.
Agreed! I haven't read any unhelpful posts.
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Old 11-27-2012, 04:20 PM   #43
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Nice back man. Your friend got bigger tri's than mine

So you're saying stick with my isolation program and eat more? Anything you would modify in my program as far as reps/sets/exercises? Like I said I do mix up my exercise except for legs, I always do squats/dead/stiff-legged deadlifts.

I do arms on their own day because I noticed I have more energy to move heavier weights. My gym is only 4min away so I don't mind going extra day, I get to do more cardio.

Do you do any cardio? What do you do?
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My goals are different than yours; I'm chasing strength/max numbers on all of my compound lifts (..and as a result I eat EVERYTHING THAT I CAN GET MY HANDS ON REGARDLESS OF HOW MUCH FAT IT HAS). I am killing myself in the gym, so I need all of the energy that I can muster up. If I don't eat enough, I notice it the moment that my body starts to move weight, and I get pissed at myself. I don't work isolation movements much these days, but I was an aesthetics guy for a long time, so my physique is that of somebody who normally lifts for aesthetics. My body isn't really representative of my current mass building program; I've only been on this program since Labor Day weekend.

If I were in your shoes and chasing looks rather than outright strength (..and I've been there before), I'd probably stick with a 4 day body-building style split. A day each week dedicated to legs, shoulders/upper back, lower back and chest. I never give arms their own day. It's not worth the time IMHO, but others may disagree. I'd lump triceps in on chest day and biceps on lower back day. This type of split is also primarily about isolations (..especially if you want really nicely developed shoulders)....the exception being the compound lifts on any given day.

Here's what I meant by defined shoulders (..I was all aesthetics, and I looked stronger than I actually was):


..and just for kicks, one of my female friends who shows quite often. This is her off-season.
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Old 11-27-2012, 04:22 PM   #44
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I meant a detailed answer. But just telling me to eat more is not helping much.
I tried eating more before and I did bulk up, but I got fatter, away from the look I wanted. I don't want the big undefined look.

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Finally a helpful answer? Yes I agree it was a good post but so were a lot of others.
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Old 11-27-2012, 04:27 PM   #45
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Nice back man. Your friend got bigger tri's than mine

So you're saying stick with my isolation program and eat more? Anything you would modify in my program as far as reps/sets/exercises? Like I said I do mix up my exercise except for legs, I always do squats/dead/stiff-legged deadlifts.

I do arms on their own day because I noticed I have more energy to move heavier weights. My gym is only 4min away so I don't mind going extra day, I get to do more cardio.

Do you do any cardio? What do you do?

She's a competitor though, and she's all about isolations/slow and steady reps. She also knows how to diet!

Stick with a program that is probably 70% isolation/30% compound, but DO NOT neglect the basic compound lifts (..squats, etc.). Go HARD! As for modifying reps/sets, you're going to have to play around with this scheme to find what works for you. There are no hard and fast rules! Generally speaking, there is no need to perform more than 15 reps in any one set though. Forget arms as their own day man. Lump them in somewhere else. Add abs on your leg day. Sometimes less is more.........stimulate, don't annihilate! I don't do any dedicated cardio right now. If you're lifting hard enough, you won't need it at this point.

Last edited by M3Inline6; 11-27-2012 at 04:45 PM.
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Old 11-27-2012, 04:45 PM   #46
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I meant a detailed answer. But just telling me to eat more is not helping much.
I tried eating more before and I did bulk up, but I got fatter, away from the look I wanted. I don't want the big undefined look.
I'm going to type this... I'm thinking you ignore it, but it is exactly what you want to do for your goals imo.

Eat the same as you are now on training days, but add in one more meal. It will make a big difference. You will not be storing fat on training days, because you barely have any dietary fat intake.

Now this is why I think when you ate more you got fatter. (I assume ate more of your current diet). I'll do my best to spare the scientific terms. Remember this is just my theory, based on the information you've supplied.

Your rest days are the problem. I think you should have 4 days where you train like M3inline said, and eat your current diet to around 3200-3500 calories.

Then 3 days a week, you rest. You need to do this to promote muscle growth regardless, so do it. On rest days, you should eat to your 2500 calorie level, but what makes up those calories is very important. You need to cut your carbs out on rest days (100g or less, mostly vegetables etc). The very simplistic explanation of why you do this is that it will increase your "insulin sensitivity". You "starve" your body of carbs on rest days, so when you stuff your face full of them on training days (and create a mass inflow of insulin) your body will use the very anabolic (muscle building) insulin hormone to build and repair muscle tissue, instead of "ignoring" it (due to low insulin sensitivity). Low insulin sensitivity + high carbohydrate intake = fat gain. Replace the cut out carbs with the same amount (in calories) of dietary fat. It will do wonders for your body composition.

I have a feeling when you were "getting fat" you were actually eating the required amount of calories to grow muscles, but your rest days were killing your progress because your insulin levels are constantly elevated and your body is in 24/7 fat storage mode.

Apologies if by using simple explanations I missed something.
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Old 11-27-2012, 05:37 PM   #47
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Sorry to be a lil rude, but you need to re-check how the body works and learn how to eat PROPERLY. Your body needs fat for many things, and simply picking up something and eating something that has the most protein isn't smart.
Thank you bmw matt for you input. I didn't say I didn't eat any fat. I said least amount of fat. I am by no means a body builder. I just offered some of the things I did when I was lifting. Since we had very similar body characteristics, I thought I would share. I should have went more into detail on what I ate each day and my workout routine, but I was at work and had to deal with some problems at the time. Op if you would like to know more on what I did you can send me a pm and I will go into detail.
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Old 11-27-2012, 07:33 PM   #48
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Thank you bmw matt for you input. I didn't say I didn't eat any fat. I said least amount of fat. I am by no means a body builder. I just offered some of the things I did when I was lifting. Since we had very similar body characteristics, I thought I would share. I should have went more into detail on what I ate each day and my workout routine, but I was at work and had to deal with some problems at the time. Op if you would like to know more on what I did you can send me a pm and I will go into detail.
No problem. Just cause something worked for you magically, doesn't mean it's right.
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Old 11-27-2012, 07:57 PM   #49
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Thanks man. This is a detailed answer. What you said makes sense. The issue is that I already do what you said. On rest days I eat very low carbs < 100g. On lifting days I have a hearty carbs meal before working out. I know my body is sensitive to carbs and it gets fat fast from them. So my food tends to be high on protein and healthy fat, lower on carbs except on lifting days. I only eat healthy carbs (whole wheat, sweet potatoes, etc...). Literally today (a rest day), this is all what I had:

almond milk protein shake, handful of walnuts, 2 dates, wild salmon, protein bar (quest ones with few carbs in it), omelet (10 egg whites, 2 eggs, some light cheese), and Turkey salad.

Tomorrow a lifting day, I would have something similar to above but with extra carbs in two of meals post working out (banana in shake and sweet potatoes pancakes).

It's either I'm not eating enough and overtraining, or I'm eating too much. I feel hungry most of the time. I think I feel hungry because I don't eat much carbs. So not sure what to fix there, diet-wise.

You're right thought, I think my problem is in my diet, I know I work out hard enough because I'm sore all the time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dabears View Post
I'm going to type this... I'm thinking you ignore it, but it is exactly what you want to do for your goals imo.

Eat the same as you are now on training days, but add in one more meal. It will make a big difference. You will not be storing fat on training days, because you barely have any dietary fat intake.

Now this is why I think when you ate more you got fatter. (I assume ate more of your current diet). I'll do my best to spare the scientific terms. Remember this is just my theory, based on the information you've supplied.

Your rest days are the problem. I think you should have 4 days where you train like M3inline said, and eat your current diet to around 3200-3500 calories.

Then 3 days a week, you rest. You need to do this to promote muscle growth regardless, so do it. On rest days, you should eat to your 2500 calorie level, but what makes up those calories is very important. You need to cut your carbs out on rest days (100g or less, mostly vegetables etc). The very simplistic explanation of why you do this is that it will increase your "insulin sensitivity". You "starve" your body of carbs on rest days, so when you stuff your face full of them on training days (and create a mass inflow of insulin) your body will use the very anabolic (muscle building) insulin hormone to build and repair muscle tissue, instead of "ignoring" it (due to low insulin sensitivity). Low insulin sensitivity + high carbohydrate intake = fat gain. Replace the cut out carbs with the same amount (in calories) of dietary fat. It will do wonders for your body composition.

I have a feeling when you were "getting fat" you were actually eating the required amount of calories to grow muscles, but your rest days were killing your progress because your insulin levels are constantly elevated and your body is in 24/7 fat storage mode.

Apologies if by using simple explanations I missed something.
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Old 11-27-2012, 08:22 PM   #50
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I'm going to give an answer that is contradictory to what most people here are saying. If this comes off as tough love, or being a d!ck, I apologize. I don't mean it that way. My intent is to give you a kick in the ass like I wish someone had done to me 6 or 7 years ago.

1. EAT. Fvck this low carb / high carb stuff. Fvck the low fat. Eat AT LEAST 500 calories a day more than you are right now, every single day. Step on the scale once a week and if the number is less than a pound higher than the week before, starting eating more. If you starting getting fat, cut 100 calories a day and reevaluate after a week.

2. TRAIN HARD AS FVCK. You're not doing that right now. From the picture you posted you could have told me that you had never lifted a weight in your life and it wouldnt have been unbelievable. Not trying to be a d!ck. I've been there. I wish someone had told me that instead of letting me waste years in the gym.

If you aren't seriously afraid of certain training days, your programming isnt intense enough. If you aren't failing reps ever, your programming isnt intense enough. If you aren't increasing the weights you are lifting every week (at the beginning training stage you are at now), your programming isnt intense enough. Do whatever kind of programming you want, unless it is absolutely retarded, having enough intensity is going to ensure you make progress.

3. STOP CHANGING UP YOUR PROGRAMMING. Pick something and stick with it for at least a few months. People that make the best progress might follow the same program for 2 or 3 years, not 2 or 3 weeks like I hear a lot of people on here doing. Do isolation if you want, do compound if you want, do zumba if you want. Just stick with it long enough to know if its actually working for you.

Alright, enough all caps for me for tonight. Hope this helps. Man up, eat, and lift some fvcking heavy weights. Its not that hard.
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Old 11-27-2012, 08:26 PM   #51
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I'm going to give an answer that is contradictory to what most people here are saying. If this comes off as tough love, or being a d!ck, I apologize. I don't mean it that way. My intent is to give you a kick in the ass like I wish someone had done to me 6 or 7 years ago.

1. EAT. Fvck this low carb / high carb stuff. Fvck the low fat. Eat AT LEAST 500 calories a day more than you are right now, every single day. Step on the scale once a week and if the number is less than a pound higher than the week before, starting eating more. If you starting getting fat, cut 100 calories a day and reevaluate after a week.

2. TRAIN HARD AS FVCK. You're not doing that right now. From the picture you posted you could have told me that you had never lifted a weight in your life and it wouldnt have been unbelievable. Not trying to be a d!ck. I've been there. I wish someone had told me that instead of letting me waste years in the gym.

If you aren't seriously afraid of certain training days, your programming isnt intense enough. If you aren't failing reps ever, your programming isnt intense enough. If you aren't increasing the weights you are lifting every week (at the beginning training stage you are at now), your programming isnt intense enough. Do whatever kind of programming you want, unless it is absolutely retarded, having enough intensity is going to ensure you make progress.

3. STOP CHANGING UP YOUR PROGRAMMING. Pick something and stick with it for at least a few months. People that make the best progress might follow the same program for 2 or 3 years, not 2 or 3 weeks like I hear a lot of people on here doing. Do isolation if you want, do compound if you want, do zumba if you want. Just stick with it long enough to know if its actually working for you.

Alright, enough all caps for me for tonight. Hope this helps. Man up, eat, and lift some fvcking heavy weights. Its not that hard.

Key points in BOLD for the skimmers.
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Old 11-27-2012, 08:37 PM   #52
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I wish glight had posted that exact same thing in my thread

I was going to reply saying there's no way you are eating enough if that's your typical diet but he beat me to it, with a much better response.

In the end he's completely right. "Advanced" diet techniques work... but they are very hard to actually attain to, you'll probably just burn yourself out focusing on the details instead of the big picture.

I know personally when I've seen stagnating gains... and its from trying to get too complicated with everything / switching things up too much.

If you are uncomfortable everytime you eat, and uncomfortable everytime you are in the gym, I think you will see great progress
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Old 11-27-2012, 08:39 PM   #53
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If you are uncomfortable everytime you eat, and uncomfortable everytime you are in the gym, I think you will see great progress
Ain't that the truth!!? I have a lil' pot belly right now from eating a whole cornish hen, and 8 oz. of rice.....and I have to take a mean sh|t! I'm dreading squatting tomorrow. Sigh!

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Old 11-27-2012, 10:25 PM   #54
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Ain't that the truth!!? I have a lil' pot belly right now from eating a whole cornish hen, and 8 oz. of rice.....and I have to take a mean sh|t! I'm dreading squatting tomorrow. Sigh!
My legs are cramping like a mofo after my stuff tonight
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Old 11-27-2012, 10:26 PM   #55
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My legs are cramping like a mofo after my stuff tonight
You went HARD son. Well done!
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Old 11-28-2012, 10:43 AM   #56
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You are wondering why you aren't cutting fat and you aren't doing much for cardio? Add low intensity cardio for 30mins 3x a week. You should always do cardio. You aren't going to loose mass from it and throw your body into muscle eating machine.
Eat.
Train harder.
Eat.
Stimulate, don't annihilate.
Eat.
Did I say eat?
Fvcking eat. Eat more greens too.
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Old 11-28-2012, 11:15 AM   #57
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You are wondering why you aren't cutting fat and you aren't doing much for cardio? Add low intensity cardio for 30mins 3x a week. You should always do cardio. You aren't going to loose mass from it and throw your body into muscle eating machine.
Eat.
Train harder.
Eat.
Stimulate, don't annihilate.
Eat.
Did I say eat?
Fvcking eat. Eat more greens too.
My favorite saying, and it rings so true.
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Old 11-28-2012, 11:24 AM   #58
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My favorite saying, and it rings so true.
but crossfit bros.

Isn't puking the sign of a great workout?
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Old 11-28-2012, 11:39 AM   #59
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I think "annihilate" has a different definition to everyone. I've felt absolutely beat after some 40:20 workouts but others may have just passed out. I do think you should get the most out of your muscles, but atrophy obviously is restricting, and should be. Just have to know your body I guess.
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Old 11-28-2012, 11:43 AM   #60
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I think "annihilate" has a different definition to everyone. I've felt absolutely beat after some 40:20 workouts but others may have just passed out. I do think you should get the most out of your muscles, but atrophy obviously is restricting, and should be. Just have to know your body I guess.
I do think most people don't workout hard enough. My guys that I workout with always try to slack and I push them then they lay on the floor for a bit lol
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