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Old 11-28-2012, 01:34 AM   #41
M3N7AL
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Simply not true.

CCRs (Call Charge Records) - the calls you make

And Reverse CCRs - the calls you receive are recorded and are provided by telcos when properly subpoenaed.

There is no need to request for that at a time prior to receiving the calls.
Exactly what i've said.

Also, it is important to prove you were not on the phone, as i've said before, people don't just drive around with their phone on their ear unless they talk to themselves (suffer from mental illness) or are on the phone!

Get your records.

YGOAMG, records are important, if they come back backing up OP's story, the judge might as "why the hell would they have the phone to their ear then".

Just do what i told you in inbox and listen to the bloke above me. He speaks more sense than anyone here.

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Old 11-28-2012, 01:48 AM   #42
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Keep in mind that the Crown bears the onus of proof.

"She" does not need to prove anything.

Having said that, one way of ensuring that the Crown fails to discharge its onus is to adduce contrary evidence (CCRs etc).
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Old 11-28-2012, 01:53 AM   #43
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YGOAMG, if he can prove he wasn't using the phone then the judge might say "why the hell would he have the phone to his ear then".
Just because he didn't make a call over a cellular network doesn't mean he didn't use an app like Skype to place a call over a data network (assuming it's a smart phone). Just saying!

Not saying the OP is lying but not placing a recorded phone call doesn't guarantee the phone wasn't touched.
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Old 11-28-2012, 01:58 AM   #44
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Keep in mind that the Crown bears the onus of proof.

"She" does not need to prove anything.

Having said that, one way of ensuring that the Crown fails to discharge its onus is to adduce contrary evidence (CCRs etc).
That's correct.
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Old 11-28-2012, 02:20 AM   #45
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Thanks for the validation
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Old 11-28-2012, 02:41 AM   #46
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Hot car btw.. Does it boogy or what?
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Old 11-28-2012, 04:04 AM   #47
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Lol at the last few posts
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Old 11-28-2012, 06:48 AM   #48
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any use of the phone through phone call in or out including data usage (Skype Skype is recored by the telcos, they can even use triangulation to locate your position to within 15 meters if they want.
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Old 11-28-2012, 04:23 PM   #49
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any use of the phone through phone call in or out including data usage (Skype Skype is recored by the telcos, they can even use triangulation to locate your position to within 15 meters if they want.
I know they'd be able to determine if data was used at a given time but surely they can't narrow that usage down to a specific app? How would they know if it was mail syncs or Skype?
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Old 11-28-2012, 04:25 PM   #50
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OP, I work for Telstra. If you need my help, PM me. I'm not in mobiles, but I have an internal referral process that I can use.

However, it sounds like those with more experience (I have precisely none) have already chimed in. You will have screen shots of your call history and your outgoing call records in time.
It sounds like getting a reverse call record requires a court request rather than an internal email from me...
I imagine (hope!?) that if you turned up to court with the proof available to you, and then requested them to get the incoming records to prove beyond doubt, they might just agree it'd be a waste of everyones time to continue.

Happy to ask the questions though.

I don't think you'll need any, but good luck!
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Old 11-28-2012, 04:25 PM   #51
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Data is recorded, it's on the current charges not billed spreadsheet I got from Telstra online. I have none around the time I was pulled over.

Anyway, looks like I'm going to court.

Massive thanks to Tim and M3NT7L, I owe you guys beers.
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Old 11-28-2012, 04:29 PM   #52
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Stop jumping at shadows.

The Crown will not attempt to adduce any evidence of the sort that is now being debated.

With respect, it is, to them, just a 5hitty use mobile phone while driving offence. It is not a life offence or one where they have nabbed a feared criminal mastermind. They will not commit too many resources to the prosecution of the matter if indeed the OP decides to contest the ticket.

The evidence the Crown will adduce I expect will be limited to the 2 coppers saying "I saw xyz".

The OP would then both give and call evidence to counter the eye witness evidence of the 2 coppers with a view to establishing that their eye-witness account is mistaken.

Quite simple really and done in 1/2 a day.

Tim.
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Old 11-28-2012, 04:31 PM   #53
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My last post was not directed at the OP jumping at shadows.

It was a reference to data usage and blah blah blah.

It was also not meant to offend anyone except perhaps for Declan
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Old 11-28-2012, 04:39 PM   #54
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My last post was not directed at the OP jumping at shadows.

It was a reference to data usage and blah blah blah.

It was also not meant to offend anyone except perhaps for Declan
You're going to have to try harder than that to offend me mate!
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Old 11-28-2012, 08:02 PM   #55
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If you wernt on the phone, you'll get let off.

It really cant be that hard?
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who da F done that?
prestige warehouse or who?
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Old 11-28-2012, 09:36 PM   #56
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^^^ If it only it were that easy.

I do not dispute for one second what the OP says, which is that she was not on the phone. So if that is the case why was a ticket written in the first place?

The answer to that is that it is likely that the police had her under observation for a very short period of time, THINK they saw her on the phone, are not sure but decided to issue a ticket anyway. This does not mean that she was on the phone.

They will (and this is natural and not necessarily a criticism of the police because everyone does it) now convince themselves of what they saw.

Whether the OP was on the phone or not is entirely immaterial. In the absence of any specific direct evidence to the contrary it will be a he said (or they said if there was more than one copper)/she said trial.

It will be then for the Magistrate to decide as a matter of fact whose story they believe to be more credible.

Having said that the CCRs and reverse CCRs will assist the OP greatly in increasing her prospects of acquittal.
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Old 11-28-2012, 10:51 PM   #57
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Data is recorded, it's on the current charges not billed spreadsheet I got from Telstra online. I have none around the time I was pulled over.

Anyway, looks like I'm going to court.

Massive thanks to Tim and M3NT7L, I owe you guys beers.
All good, gluck with it. And you don't owe me anything mate, just passing on some friendly advice

BrisM3 also knows his stuff so it'd be wise to listen to him, he's right in what he says.

Hopefully all goes well for you

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Old 11-28-2012, 11:42 PM   #58
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I still think you are looking at at least 25 years with no less then 15 non parole.

Personally i think you would be better off focusing your energy at the gym at this stage. The bigger you become from now til sentencing the more chance you'll have at Goulburn jail.

gl
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Old 11-29-2012, 01:24 AM   #59
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Yes and those "stories" will have to be said under oath?

Obviously was a criminal lawyer you would known think or two lol
But the way I see it,
I doubt a police officer will lie under oath.
And I think it's pretty easy for Renae to say that she was 100% not in possession of a phone while in control of a motor vehicle..under oath

The officer will probably say "I think"
And renae will say she "WAS NOT"



Quote:
Originally Posted by BrisM3 View Post
^^^ If it only it were that easy.

I do not dispute for one second what the OP says, which is that she was not on the phone. So if that is the case why was a ticket written in the first place?

The answer to that is that it is likely that the police had her under observation for a very short period of time, THINK they saw her on the phone, are not sure but decided to issue a ticket anyway. This does not mean that she was on the phone.

They will (and this is natural and not necessarily a criticism of the police because everyone does it) now convince themselves of what they saw.

Whether the OP was on the phone or not is entirely immaterial. In the absence of any specific direct evidence to the contrary it will be a he said (or they said if there was more than one copper)/she said trial.

It will be then for the Magistrate to decide as a matter of fact whose story they believe to be more credible.

Having said that the CCRs and reverse CCRs will assist the OP greatly in increasing her prospects of acquittal.
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who da F done that?
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Old 11-29-2012, 01:59 AM   #60
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With respect YGO, you have no idea.

It is naive to think that police do not lie under oath. You can't believe that police perjure themselves? Sorry to burst your bubble buddy.

I'm not sure what your involvement in criminal law comprises, but mine spans 15 years and tens of 1000s of matters from simple street offences to murder and everything in between. I'm not trying to show off or boast, but I am no two-bit tin pot lawyer.

Have you heard of the Lucas Report, the Fitzgerald Inquiry or Roger Rogerson? If not, and in all seriousness, do some Google searches and see what you find.

Again, not trying to offend but to be educational. Police are (generally) not your friends. Next time you're in Brisbane lets catch up for a beer and a chat. The stories (truths) about police I could tell you would blow your mind.
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