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Old 12-17-2012, 07:08 PM   #61
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the first 500 or so miles 2nd was a little more difacult to engage but now it is smooth in every gear. I just chulked it up to breaking it in. As far as preformance and faster reving it feels pretty close to the stock clutch.
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Old 12-17-2012, 08:15 PM   #62
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Seems like just stick to OEM dual mass clutch
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Old 12-17-2012, 08:27 PM   #63
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You mean like this: http://www.zionsvilleautosport.com/s...t_code/PBC.htm

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But if not I suppose we could machine an adapter for that bearing. I've already got an idea for a simple bolt-on adapter to accept the 6-speed pilot bearing.
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Old 12-17-2012, 08:31 PM   #64
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Haha, yep, that's pretty much exactly what I had in mind. Awesome! And its super cheap too! Very impressive. There ya go 6-speed owners!

Good lookin' out TxZHP04. I might edit the original post and include that link...

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Old 12-17-2012, 09:13 PM   #65
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Any noticeable performance increase? Quicker revving?
There shouldn't be. They're nearly the same weight.

Valeo: 23.6 lbs
OEM: 24.9 lbs
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Old 12-17-2012, 09:24 PM   #66
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Haha, yep, that's pretty much exactly what I had in mind. Awesome! And its super cheap too! Very impressive. There ya go 6-speed owners!

Good lookin' out TxZHP04. I might edit the original post and include that link...
Except... They don't make it any more.
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Old 12-17-2012, 10:01 PM   #67
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Damn! That sucks. Well, at least we know it can be done and is a pretty straight forward part.

If somebody wants it bad enough and is willing to send me parts for measuring I'll draw up this adapter in AutoCAD.

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Except... They don't make it any more.
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Old 12-18-2012, 01:11 AM   #68
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I thought about this a little after I saw they discontinued it. I think the reason was, a) it wasn't marketed well enough to keep the demand up, and b) the pilot bearing carrier was probably pressed into the same place that the pilot bearing goes in the crankshaft. If that's the case (and it probably is) then you're limited by the number of flyhwheels that would have enough room to clear the outside diameter of the extended pilot bearing carrier and almost no one publishes that stuff.
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Old 12-18-2012, 01:38 AM   #69
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sounds reasonable

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I thought about this a little after I saw they discontinued it. I think the reason was, a) it wasn't marketed well enough to keep the demand up, and b) the pilot bearing carrier was probably pressed into the same place that the pilot bearing goes in the crankshaft. If that's the case (and it probably is) then you're limited by the number of flyhwheels that would have enough room to clear the outside diameter of the extended pilot bearing carrier and almost no one publishes that stuff.
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Old 12-23-2012, 04:59 AM   #70
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huh? We're talking about a torsion spring clutch here. It's not fixed, It's floating on the torsion springs just as the DMF is floating.



No...not at all. A self adjusting pressure plate maintains even clamping force over the life of the clutch, the torsion springs dampen torque. Two entirely unrelated functions.
I don't get it then, if there's no inherent advantage to a DMF, why is it that pretty much every car made in the last 20 years or so came equipped with a dual mass flywheel? And why would a sprung hub clutch + solid flywheel result in a less vague feel than the stock setup if the springs allow for a similar amount of "play" in both cases?
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Old 12-23-2012, 11:31 AM   #71
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Well, there *are* advantages to using a dual mass flywheel as compared to a single mass flywheel + sprung hub clutch. However, those reasons seem to be very subtle. I listed some examples in one of my replies to you. I'm pretty sure increased MPG is the primary motivating factor for using the DMF -even if the increase is tiny. Everybody in auto manufacturing is looking for ways to squeeze more MPG out of their cars and drivetrains.

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I don't get it then, if there's no inherent advantage to a DMF, why is it that pretty much every car made in the last 20 years or so came equipped with a dual mass flywheel? And why would a sprung hub clutch + solid flywheel result in a less vague feel than the stock setup if the springs allow for a similar amount of "play" in both cases?
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Old 12-23-2012, 11:49 AM   #72
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Another motivating factor may be supply chain managment. When you wear a clutch and need to replace it, you're already in the job for at least the cost of the clutch. With a single mass flywheel you can turn in down and resurface it, providing it's within tolerance and most will take 1-2 resurfacings. No additional purchase necessary. A dual mass flywheel shouldn't be turned down because you can't hold the surface motionless during the process, besides the internals to the DMF have probably worn to the point of replacement by that time anyway. With a dual mass flywheel, you're in it for the clutch and the flywheel.
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Old 12-23-2012, 12:40 PM   #73
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Well, there *are* advantages to using a dual mass flywheel as compared to a single mass flywheel + sprung hub clutch. However, those reasons seem to be very subtle. I listed some examples in one of my replies to you. I'm pretty sure increased MPG is the primary motivating factor for using the DMF -even if the increase is tiny. Everybody in auto manufacturing is looking for ways to squeeze more MPG out of their cars and drivetrains.



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Assuming equal weights, where would the mpg improvement come from? Damping can't be the reason either, since as you stated, the springs can be selected such that both perform similarly

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Another motivating factor may be supply chain managment. When you wear a clutch and need to replace it, you're already in the job for at least the cost of the clutch. With a single mass flywheel you can turn in down and resurface it, providing it's within tolerance and most will take 1-2 resurfacings. No additional purchase necessary. A dual mass flywheel shouldn't be turned down because you can't hold the surface motionless during the process, besides the internals to the DMF have probably worn to the point of replacement by that time anyway. With a dual mass flywheel, you're in it for the clutch and the flywheel.
That is a possibility, but I don't know... manufacturers generally prefer to advertise lower maintenance costs. I have a hard time believing that pretty much every manufacturer across the board would implement something that seemingly has no advantages and costs more. It's especially perplexing to me that they're used in all types of vehicles, from econoboxes to sports cars to luxury cars.

Any engineers here with thoughts on the matter?

Does a sprung-hub clutch interfere with the ability to use a self adjusting pressure plate per chance?
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Old 01-04-2013, 09:09 AM   #74
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As far as I can see, there is no Valoe flywheel for my June 2003 (ET37) 325i. Whats the deal with that? Anyone know why they dont have this flywheel for my model?
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Old 01-04-2013, 03:19 PM   #75
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mine is an 03 325ci and I have this set up installed. Have you checked with Bravauto.
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Old 01-04-2013, 11:11 PM   #76
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yes and apparently June 03" surpasses the models that valeo makes flywheels for. bogus!

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Old 01-05-2013, 01:04 AM   #77
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Most (if not all) of the lightweight flywheels offer replaceable surface inserts, however I'm not sure they really offer that much benefit. They aren't really user servicealbe because they should be rebalanced when replaced. This means you need to send the flywheel away if you're replacing the surface during a clutch replacement, when time may be your worst enemy.
Aluminum flywheels will typically come with replaceable inserts. Steel ones, from what I can tell, don't.
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Old 01-06-2013, 12:21 AM   #78
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What does realoem say about part numbers and such? Are the flywheels different? I took a quick look and I cant really see any difference in part numbers but clearly there must be a distinction.

Another way to see if this would work for your car would be to check if the aftermarket tuners like UUC have two different kits for the 325 or if they offer just one. One kit for all years of the 325 would be suggestive that the flywheel and/or clutch are interchangeable even though they're different part numbers... Just a thought. Though admittedly, Valeo would have probably already looked into this.

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yes and apparently June 03" surpasses the models that valeo makes flywheels for. bogus!

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Old 01-06-2013, 12:27 AM   #79
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PS, your car is gorgeous Mesa3077Boogie
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Old 01-08-2013, 08:44 AM   #80
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What does realoem say about part numbers and such? Are the flywheels different? I took a quick look and I cant really see any difference in part numbers but clearly there must be a distinction.

Another way to see if this would work for your car would be to check if the aftermarket tuners like UUC have two different kits for the 325 or if they offer just one. One kit for all years of the 325 would be suggestive that the flywheel and/or clutch are interchangeable even though they're different part numbers... Just a thought. Though admittedly, Valeo would have probably already looked into this.
I have not checked the part numbers yet but thats a point I will do that!

And thanks, riding low like I do takes its toll, both on your body and your car..
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