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Old 01-09-2013, 10:48 AM   #81
Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks
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Originally Posted by alexxander.foster View Post
What does realoem say about part numbers and such? Are the flywheels different? I took a quick look and I cant really see any difference in part numbers but clearly there must be a distinction.

Another way to see if this would work for your car would be to check if the aftermarket tuners like UUC have two different kits for the 325 or if they offer just one. One kit for all years of the 325 would be suggestive that the flywheel and/or clutch are interchangeable even though they're different part numbers... Just a thought. Though admittedly, Valeo would have probably already looked into this.
There are two different flywheel/clutch kits depending on the production date of the 325. They are definitely not interchangeable, totally different input shaft spline and other dimensions.
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Old 01-09-2013, 06:43 PM   #82
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Thanks Rob, good to know. Always something new to learn with these cars.

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Originally Posted by Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks View Post
There are two different flywheel/clutch kits depending on the production date of the 325. They are definitely not interchangeable, totally different input shaft spline and other dimensions.
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Old 01-17-2013, 01:43 PM   #83
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I don't really see how the springs on the clutch would perform the same job as the springs in a DMF.

That video is GOLD! I do have a question however... I am already on the same page as everyone else about the DMF being prone to failure internally around the same time or shortly after the clutch goes. Everyone says that the DMF cant be resurface due to the fact its moving around, but when I saw the video, I was curious if there would be a way to lock up the Torsion arms by passing a set of bolts through the flywheel, granted there was a hole to pass through? Furthermore, could a machine shop make some? basically punch the holes equally around the flywheel? I have a strong disposition that the answer is already no due to the fact that it seems like a lot more hassle then its worth to fix something that isnt gonna last much longer anyways, however, stupid questions have brought me amazing answers in the past..
Furthermore.. I have a 5spd 323ci, and had some horrible chatter during engagement/disengagement and or idle on my stock system, with no CDV deletes or aftermarket parts. I found my remedy by accident. I used a can I white Lithium grease to lube the clutch slave push rod for the Throw out Bearing(TOB) arm/fork. The white lithium also covered a portion of the TOB and from that point on, my chatter was gone. The reason I did this was because evertime I clutched, I could hear it sqeaking really bad and kind of binding. I was also experiencing a violent vibration as the clutch was sowly engaged at low RPM.
The point that I would like to bring to light here, is that I would bet the chatter you hear with the Valeo kit has something to do with the TOB. This is just my 2 cents. Hopefully somone can chime in on this scenario.
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Old 01-28-2013, 07:51 PM   #84
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So can we equate the chatter from the valeo conversion to that of a lightweight flywheel? If it's similar, is there any reliability questions?
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Old 02-23-2013, 01:48 AM   #85
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*whew* its been a while. On the off chance anyone is still following this I figured I'd take the initiative and respond to these questions.

I believe yes, it is possible to lock the two sections of the dual mass flywheel to allow for resurfacing. I'm looking at the stock DMF right now and I don't see any holes that would allow for locking of the two parts of the DMF, but I'm sure a determined person could build a simple tool that would hold the two sections together during machining...

... That being said, I seriously doubt its worth the effort. As mentioned before (and you already noted) the DMF is rated to only last one full clutch life. It will last longer, but will not be expected to last through a second clutch's lifespan. Thus, any cost savings you would gain by resurfacing the DMF would be lost when the DMF fails and you have to buy a clutch kit when the old one still has plenty of life left. If you were brave enough to reuse the clutch disk and SAC pressure plate then you'd have the painful and arduous process of removing the transmission twice instead of once during the life of the clutch -which may not be expensive but your time is certainly worth something. And this also doesn't account for the expenses related to a machinist building a tool to hold the flywheel locked.

And I suppose you could be right about the throw out bearing. There's a multitude of factors that could be the cause of the extremely mild chatter I hear. But that's a good idea. I lubed the hell out of the TOB and everything on the transmission's clutch arm, but I didn't lube up the shaft of the slave cylinder. Regardless, I'm not concerned about my own clutch chatter issues. I'd consider myself a pretty meticulous DIY mechanic and my energy to deal with the clutch chatter is barely enough to write this sentence -haha!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grease_Monkey View Post
That video is GOLD! I do have a question however... I am already on the same page as everyone else about the DMF being prone to failure internally around the same time or shortly after the clutch goes. Everyone says that the DMF cant be resurface due to the fact its moving around, but when I saw the video, I was curious if there would be a way to lock up the Torsion arms by passing a set of bolts through the flywheel, granted there was a hole to pass through? Furthermore, could a machine shop make some? basically punch the holes equally around the flywheel? I have a strong disposition that the answer is already no due to the fact that it seems like a lot more hassle then its worth to fix something that isnt gonna last much longer anyways, however, stupid questions have brought me amazing answers in the past..
Furthermore.. I have a 5spd 323ci, and had some horrible chatter during engagement/disengagement and or idle on my stock system, with no CDV deletes or aftermarket parts. I found my remedy by accident. I used a can I white Lithium grease to lube the clutch slave push rod for the Throw out Bearing(TOB) arm/fork. The white lithium also covered a portion of the TOB and from that point on, my chatter was gone. The reason I did this was because evertime I clutched, I could hear it sqeaking really bad and kind of binding. I was also experiencing a violent vibration as the clutch was sowly engaged at low RPM.
The point that I would like to bring to light here, is that I would bet the chatter you hear with the Valeo kit has something to do with the TOB. This is just my 2 cents. Hopefully somone can chime in on this scenario.

Oh man, I'm so surprised at how many people are getting hung up on my chatter. Seriously guys, its BARELY noticeable. You can only hear it when you're outside of the vehicle down low or when you're next to a building at a stop light -otherwise its non-existent.

And once again, I'm only making objective observations. These observations in no way reflect what you will experience. My 5-speed may be tired and causing gear chatter all on its own. Or it may not. I'm not sure. These are just pieces of data so you can make your own decision on whether or not you want to do this swap. The only way anyone will know if the gearbox chatter is a common issue is if some other people who did the swap speak up and say what's going on.

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So can we equate the chatter from the valeo conversion to that of a lightweight flywheel? If it's similar, is there any reliability questions?
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Old 02-23-2013, 02:14 AM   #86
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PROGRESS REPORT:

So far the clutch and flywheel are holding up well to my daily abuse. I've punched it a ton, had to slip the clutch waiting at stop signs on a 20% grade hill, and had to deal with lots of gridlock traffic crawling already. It performs great and feels like its MUCH more resilient than the stock clutch assembly. I could always feel buildup on my clutch when I was sitting in gridlock for too long -even when the clutch was relatively new. But this one holds up great no matter how bad traffic is. I was on the receiving end of a road rage incident in the city last week and my new clutch saved my ass! Guy ran at me with a gun, I threw it in reverse but didn't give it barely enough gas (adrenalin pumping so technique was a low priority) and dumped the clutch: car didn't stall out and rocketed in reverse like a bat out of hell! The old assembly would have likely stalled me out.

Overall my current impression are still the same as my initial impressions: feels very much like a stock unit except more responsive, more predictable. Also, I still want to say that the car has better bite. Something I've noticed from the start but have just been able to articulate is the way the car responds when you bog down the motor to the point where it jerks back and fourth eating up driveline slop. The old dual mass flywheel would definitely smooth out the jerkiness, but it would resonate like a spring... back and fourth, back and fourth. The new sprung hub clutch is much more violent when you make a technical mistake, but it only jerks once, maybe 1.5 times, then its done and the car is back to normal.

One big update has to do with the shift lever interaction. Something I noticed right away was the car didn't let me slide the shift lever into gear quite as easily as it use to. At first I thought I didn't top off the transmission fluid enough. Then I thought it was a cold weather condition. But after going under the car several times to verify things I realized that its related to the new clutch assembly and the gear chatter. The gear chatter is interfering with the synchromeshes. Now, before anyone gets upset by this, I have to say that I'm not exactly the best when it comes to rev matching. I've become quite lazy. So I'd be willing to bet if you're practicing good shifting technique and doing proper rev matching then this will resolve itself easily. However, if you're like me and you're lazy with rev matching then I wouldn't describe it as a major issue, just something that will take some getting use to. Effectively, you're going to have to start feeling out when the syncros match up instead of just presuming they already match up. If you don't I can imagine the synchros being wore out prematurely.

Regarding fuel economy, the type of driving I do is far too erratic to get any sort of reliable baseline. My gut feeling is that yes, fuel economy has gone down, but I cant be certain and don't have any proof to back this up. Regardless of which direction the fuel economy is going, I'd be shocked if the change was anything greater than a 1/4 MPG -and even that seems generous. More than likely we're talking about a shift of a +/- 5 mile per tank range shift.

Chime in if theres something specific you'd like me to comment on or talk about!
What clutch are you using and why is it having an effect on your synchros?
Also how do you "feel when your synchros match up?" I don't get that
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Old 02-23-2013, 04:16 AM   #87
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I'm using the Valeo single mass flywheel conversion kit, which came with a Valeo sprung hub clutch, TO bearing, and non SAC pressure plate -as mentioned in the first posting.

As for your other question, I'm not exactly sure how to explain this further than I already have. I could certainly be using incorrect transmission jargon. However, I've used the exact same explaination more than once without trouble.

Is there a more specific question about the kit I can clarify?

Quote:
Originally Posted by peytonracer4 View Post
What clutch are you using and why is it having an effect on your synchros?
Also how do you "feel when your synchros match up?" I don't get that
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Old 08-11-2013, 10:07 AM   #88
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Still happy with the clutch?

Alex,

After 8 months, noise gotten any worst? Any issues clutching up with the steep hills? I live in SF also and I need a clutch in my 330cic. I want to switch over to the same SMF clutch setup.
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Old 09-11-2013, 04:52 PM   #89
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I'm about to install this clutch conversion this weekend and the part arrived today, I've gotta ask since you didn't mention or picture it and I can't figure it out: What in the world is this supposed to be? It appears almost like an alignment tool, but it won't fit through the disc (certainly not far enough to reach the pilot bushing) so that doesn't seem likely.

EDIT: Called Valeo directly and they said this kit doesn't come with an alignment tool and the part I'm describing must have ended up in my box on accident.
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Old 09-12-2013, 07:44 AM   #90
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I'm about to install this clutch conversion this weekend and the part arrived today, I've gotta ask since you didn't mention or picture it and I can't figure it out: What in the world is this supposed to be? It appears almost like an alignment tool, but it won't fit through the disc (certainly not far enough to reach the pilot bushing) so that doesn't seem likely.

EDIT: Called Valeo directly and they said this kit doesn't come with an alignment tool and the part I'm describing must have ended up in my box on accident.
That's an alignment tool for a self-adjusting clutch. Obviously not for your car though if it doesn't fit the disc. They make these as 2 piece because of the locking mechanism on the pressure plate. You bolt the clutch up then remove the bolt, remove the locking mechanism, and then pull out the forward section of the tool.
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Old 09-12-2013, 10:02 AM   #91
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That's an alignment tool for a self-adjusting clutch. Obviously not for your car though if it doesn't fit the disc. They make these as 2 piece because of the locking mechanism on the pressure plate. You bolt the clutch up then remove the bolt, remove the locking mechanism, and then pull out the forward section of the tool.
Kind of a funny tool to accidentally include in a kit that specifically eliminates the self-adjusting clutch. Well, if anyone needs one let me know, you can have it for the shipping cost.
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Old 09-16-2013, 07:34 PM   #92
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Bump for more input from OP.

Considering this kit.
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Old 10-05-2013, 10:51 AM   #93
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I replaced the Gripforce SMF kit with the Valeo kit.

The Gripforce kit had a self adjusting pressure plate, sprung friction disc and a 16 lb flywheel.
The friction disc had uneven wear and I pressure plate was fully adjusted. I only had 40k miles on the Gripforce. The chatter on the flywheel was unbearable for a daily.

In comparison with the Valeo, the chatter is bearly noticeable if at all. I'm happier with the non SAC pressure plate with the Valeo. Hoping it wear life would be better.

Everyone is asking about performance. Your engine will not rev faster since the flywheel nearly the same weight as stock. It was noticeable for me coming from a 16 lb flywheel. Also, clutch feel is similar to stock. It doesn't require much force to press the pedal down. The gripforce I had was a bit stiffer.

I actually prefer a near stock clutch kit than the aftermarket I had. No chatter, no change in shifting habits as you would have with a lightened flywheel. Yes, I did lose the acceleration boost I had with a lightened flywheel.

If you have a sticky shifter that has issues returning to neutral, consider changing out the detent pins as well.
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Old 10-23-2013, 01:12 PM   #94
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Hey all, I'm new to the forum and an E39 driver (hope you don't run me out of town, so to speak) but the info about the Valeo SMF kit in this thread is invaluable!

Quick question, and I didn't see it in the 5 previous pages: what do you do after you buy the kit, and you want to replace the clutch disk and pressure plate?

It's my understanding that the E46 and E39 conversion kits are the same: Valeo P/N 52401220. I ask the above question because Valeo doesn't have a service kit listed for this conversion kit.

I know the UUC LWFW for E46/E39 5-speed applications has the E34 M5 clutch kit as an option. I wonder if that same clutch could bolt up to the Valeo SMF flywheel?
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Old 10-23-2013, 04:00 PM   #95
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Hello E39InHockeytown, I'm not exactly sure what you're asking. What do you mean, "what do you do after you buy the kit"? The kit comes as a package:
- 1 single mass flywheel
- 1 non self adjusting pressure plate
- 1 sprung hub clutch disk
- bolts
- throw out bearing

Quote:
Originally Posted by E39InHockeytown View Post
Hey all, I'm new to the forum and an E39 driver (hope you don't run me out of town, so to speak) but the info about the Valeo SMF kit in this thread is invaluable!

Quick question, and I didn't see it in the 5 previous pages: what do you do after you buy the kit, and you want to replace the clutch disk and pressure plate?

It's my understanding that the E46 and E39 conversion kits are the same: Valeo P/N 52401220. I ask the above question because Valeo doesn't have a service kit listed for this conversion kit.

I know the UUC LWFW for E46/E39 5-speed applications has the E34 M5 clutch kit as an option. I wonder if that same clutch could bolt up to the Valeo SMF flywheel?
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Old 10-23-2013, 04:08 PM   #96
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i understood he was asking once the new clutch wears out... will the e34 m5 clutch mate with the valeo SMF?
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Old 10-23-2013, 04:27 PM   #97
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Ah! I see... okay, I'll do some digging and see what I can find out for everybody. Maybe one of the vendors can chime in. If not I'll come back with BMW equivalent part numbers for the clutch disk and pressure plate.

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i understood he was asking once the new clutch wears out... will the e34 m5 clutch mate with the valeo SMF?
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Old 10-23-2013, 04:33 PM   #98
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Just got off the phone with Valeo of NA. They said they don't have a "service kit" for the single mass flywheel conversion kits yet. Let me see if BavAuto is willing to find some part numbers stamped on the clutch disk and pressure plate...
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Old 10-23-2013, 04:40 PM   #99
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all over it! thanks for doing the digging for us!
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Old 10-23-2013, 04:45 PM   #100
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Okay, just talked to Bob at BavAuto about this. He said they're waiting on a shipment of these conversion kits to come in. Once they arrive he offered to do some mixing and matching to see what fits and what doesn't. Bob said the shipment is already a couple weeks late so I'll touch base with him in another couple weeks and report what I find out back here.
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