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Motorsports & Track Forum
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Old 05-07-2015, 06:05 PM   #1
skwiggly
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need brake advice

Hey all,
I'm hoping to get some advice from those who have a lot of track experience and have figured out a solid, consistent front brake solution.

Here's my situation, as briefly as possible:

2012 - buy my E46 M3, brakes are stock, do a couple HPDE events, no issues

2013 - do several events, end up warping my front OEM rotors

2014 - replace front rotors with DBA rotors (slotted 2-piece floating), Ferodo DS2500 pads, stainless lines, ATE Super Blue. This setup performs decently, but after approx 4 track days, the pads are done, and I managed to warp these rotors as well (measured by my local indy BMW shop).

My habit is to take a cooldown lap, come into the paddock, drive the car around slowly for several minutes to cool, park with ebrake OFF. Despite this, I killed my current setup. FWIW, I drive in the BMWCCA HDPE A-group, and I plan on averaging 4-6 events per year.

OPTION 1
The advice of my local shop owner is to replace the rotors with a very basic non-slotted rotor (he suggested Textar), upgrade the pads to race-level, and just consider both rotors & pads as consumables that get replaced EVERY season. Pros: cheap-ish. Cons: will not perform as well as BBK, and will probably warp eventually.

OPTION 2
The alternate is to upgrade to a BBK. I could care less about bling, my main goals are to improve the braking performance, and to deal with the warpage issues. Pros: better performance, tougher hardware. Cons: expensive, might still warp?

I'm considering the AP Racing Competition Kit:
http://www.essexparts.com/shop/compl...le-11684.html#

So the real question for those that have gone down this road before:
- For someone with my intended track use, is a BBK inevitable?
- And is it really worth it?
- Do any of you follow the "cheaper" route, of stock calipers + basic rotors + race pads, and how do you deal with warpage and frequent replacement?

Thanks in advance for the help!
Scott
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Old 05-07-2015, 09:20 PM   #2
Rob43
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Answer: Partial Option 1:

1) Plain or slotted rotors of your choice
2) Race pads of you choice, I run Hawk HT-10's
3) Race brake fluid, bleed often
4) Brake cooling duct kit*

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* This is like having a BBK upgrade
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Nitrous is a little trickier than boost, but it's not the spray that kills motors, it's STUPIDITY!!
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Old 05-08-2015, 10:59 AM   #3
jared_wiesner
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob43 View Post
Answer: Partial Option 1:

1) Plain or slotted rotors of your choice
2) Race pads of you choice, I run Hawk HT-10's
3) Race brake fluid, bleed often
4) Brake cooling duct kit*

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* This is like having a BBK upgrade

This. Though if your are crafty you can make a brake duct cooling kit by buying just the hose and then welding or riveting a ring of exhaust tubing cut to about an inch in length and then welded or rived to your brake heat shield and the center cut out of the shield. Then you feed the hose into your factory brake ducts and hose clamp it on to the aforementioned setup.
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Old 05-08-2015, 11:57 AM   #4
skwiggly
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Thanks for the suggestions guys. Rob43, do you use the Hawk HT-10s on the street as well, or swap for track? Wondering if I can find a better pad than the Ferodo that will still be usable on street...
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Old 05-08-2015, 02:37 PM   #5
Rob43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skwiggly View Post
Thanks for the suggestions guys. Rob43, do you use the Hawk HT-10s on the street as well, or swap for track? Wondering if I can find a better pad than the Ferodo that will still be usable on street...
No, there is no such thing no matter what anyone tells you. My PFC "Z" Rated pads (DD) are probably one of the best dual purpose pads out there, but the are NOT a track pad for anyone that has braking skill. You'll need to swap back & forth, some will tell you to stay with the same brands because the formulas are close between the two same brand pads. This logic implies that you don't need to swap rotors too if you use the same brand pad, I personally have not had a problem (PFC vs Hawk) doing this. So run a street pad for your DD needs, and use a race pad for the weekend. You can get away with doing the swap at home & drive it to the track that way, then come back home & swap back.


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Quote:
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Last edited by Rob43; 05-08-2015 at 03:07 PM.
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Old 05-08-2015, 03:28 PM   #6
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Hey, just answered on another forum, but in case you read hear more often...

Quote:
Originally Posted by skwiggly View Post
- For someone with my intended track use, is a BBK inevitable?
Not at all. Good racing fluid, stainless lines and race pads are plenty good. A good BBK helps with heat to some extent, and they save weight, but I've found the biggest plus is the solid feel and the fact that they feel the same lap after lap. That doesn't make them an inevitable need, however.

Quote:
- And is it really worth it?
See above.

Quote:
- Do any of you follow the "cheaper" route, of stock calipers + basic rotors + race pads, and how do you deal with warpage and frequent replacement?
I run stainless lines, OE calipers, PF-08 endurance pads, Red Line RL 600 fluid and OEM replacement rotors. Haven't had to replace a rotor because of anything other than runout for the last 14 years. Before that it would only be when I tried to mix pad materials on rotors or when I wouldn't bed them in properly (pad transfer in both cases).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob43 View Post
No, there is no such thing no matter what anyone tells you. My PFC "Z" Rated pads (DD) are probably one of the best dual purpose pads out there, but the are NOT a track pad for anyone that has braking skill. You'll need to swap back & forth, some will tell you to stay with the same brands because the formulas are close between the two same brand pads. This logic implies that you don't need to swap rotors too if you use the same brand pad, I personally have not had a problem (PFC vs Hawk) doing this. So run a street pad for your DD needs, and use a race pad for the weekend. You can get away with doing the swap at home & drive it to the track that way, then come back home & swap back.


Rob43
Agreed! I used to waste a lot of money having a dedicated set of track pads with rotors vs my street pads with rotors. Anything I could do to avoid transfer deposits. I found as my braking technique got better, however, that it was all overkill. Plus, I'm lazy now with my street car.

Having dedicated pads is a must in my book, though. As Rob43 said, the PF Z-Rated pads will hold up a bit, but not for advanced driving and not for multiple laps (though they are good for the short runs of autox). Same goes with race pads... I've been lazy and left PF06 and PF08 pads on my car for a couple of weeks after events before, and while they work perfectly fine (better pedal feel than street pads even), they dust and squeal a bit, and aren't good for your rotors in the long run when cold. Plus, swapping pads can take less than 30 minutes without rushing.
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Old 05-09-2015, 01:21 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob43 View Post
Answer: Partial Option 1:

1) Plain or slotted rotors of your choice
2) Race pads of you choice, I run Hawk HT-10's
3) Race brake fluid, bleed often
4) Brake cooling duct kit*

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* This is like having a BBK upgrade
This is my setup w/o cooling ducts. No issues at all. HT-10s are great from out lap to cool down.
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