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Old 12-12-2012, 08:53 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by NOVAbimmer View Post
I for one, am glad that Loyola volunteered to cover the cost of his surgery because he couldn't get healthcare because of his undocumented status, as well as the mission that is trying to gather money to help cover his cost of medication. Those are the definitions of charity.

And it sounds like he didn't get selected for a kidney off the waiting list, his mother volunteered for a direct donation. Also the very definition of charity.

I really have no issues with this story, adding the word "illegal" is just being used to stir up controversy.
I agree.
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Old 12-12-2012, 08:59 AM   #22
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We almost always agree. Here, we do not. Reason being that this story is causing controversy because of the fact that it is putting a spotlight on an illegal claiming "we deserve healthcare too!". We've given illegals elementary education, we've thrown around the dream act (passed in some states this past election), and now some states are even offering in state tuition to illegals... now they will demand healthcare. Next it will be ______.

Like I said earlier, the problem is that politicians have a very real problem on their hand. On one side, you have "what's fair". Is it fair that someone sneaks across the border and makes demands despite contributing NOTHING to they system? On the other hand, you have millions of legal citizens who were born here to illegal families. These citizens are now being advertised to via these very government programs that offend me. "Hey despite the fact that your parents are here illegally, if you, a us born child, promise to go to school, we'll cover your education and allow your family to stay in the country" (all so they can win another vote). It's b*llshit.

Our debt isn't the result of stupid people in washington. It's not a lack of common sense or ignorance. It's a result of smart politicizing of issues at the expense of the american taxpayers. "Hey I can buy this group by doing this.. that group by doing that." And the solution is to just continue raising taxes on the legal citizens. It's b8llcr@p.
I completely agree with you here. Almost. There are a lot of stupid people in washington with a lack of common sense. Increasing your cash-out while decreasing your cash-in is a lack of common sense. As is the thought that spending money makes all your problems go away. Same with the thought that making more money makes all your problems go away.

I'm just saying that this story is a feel-good story about charity, disguised as a reason to hate illegal immigrants. There should be no issues with Loyola and its doctors deciding to do the work pro bono, or with the guy's mission group deciding they want to raise money to help cover his cost of medicine, or with a non-profit donating their money to help the cause. The only thing that would have made this story better is if he had brought his own money here to buy the procedure with. Illegal or not, it's money coming in from outside.

We can also agree that no, health care is not a human rights issue.
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Old 12-12-2012, 09:06 AM   #23
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I completely agree with you here. Almost. There are a lot of stupid people in washington with a lack of common sense. Increasing your cash-out while decreasing your cash-in is a lack of common sense. As is the thought that spending money makes all your problems go away. Same with the thought that making more money makes all your problems go away.

I'm just saying that this story is a feel-good story about charity, disguised as a reason to hate illegal immigrants. There should be no issues with Loyola and its doctors deciding to do the work pro bono, or with the guy's mission group deciding they want to raise money to help cover his cost of medicine, or with a non-profit donating their money to help the cause. The only thing that would have made this story better is if he had brought his own money here to buy the procedure with. Illegal or not, it's money coming in from outside.

We can also agree that no, health care is not a human rights issue.
:SEALOFAPPROVAL:

Very reasonable. The charity comments are spot on and is PRECISELY why we don't need big brother coming down and providing everything to everyone in this nation. Long before the nanny state, the blind, deaf, dumb, or otherwise handicapped were helped. The poor weren't dying in the streets during cold winters and the unemployed weren't starving... they were being helped out by charities (the largest of which was the catholic church). These organizations (the church as a prime example) are being slapped around left and right as the bad guys while big brother tries to come in, claim that those individual aren't being assisted, and demands larger funding for their further expansion (all in the name of helping more people).

The government doesn't do ANYTHING effectively and personal charity (funding effective private charity organizations) is a far better way to deal with the sick and needy than more money in the hands of crooked politicians.
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Old 12-12-2012, 09:24 AM   #24
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exposing you for the disgusting bigot you are is the only drug I'll ever need.

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Old 12-12-2012, 09:44 AM   #25
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Do you have anything of substance to contribute? Or are you going to do your usual lib tap dance of Big Brother is always the answer?

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Old 12-12-2012, 09:54 AM   #26
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Do you have anything of substance to contribute? Or are you going to do your usual lib tap dance of Big Brother is always the answer?
Lol
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Old 12-12-2012, 10:00 AM   #27
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I The only thing that would have made this story better is if he had brought his own money here to buy the procedure with. Illegal or not, it's money coming in from outside.

No illegal immigrants don't bring tons of money from "Mexico" or any other country for that matter. Most come here seeking a better life for their family. Part of the money they make is sent back to their family in their country. (parents,siblings,etc) So in fact more money goes out then in. None of this will change until U.S citizens get their lazy ass off welfare and start working the low end jobs. Till then start getting use to seeing illegals move up.

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Old 12-12-2012, 10:09 AM   #28
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why did you put "Mexico" in quotation marks? Are you suggesting that that's not really where he came from?
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Old 12-12-2012, 10:10 AM   #29
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why did you put "Mexico" in quotation marks? Are you suggesting that that's not really where he came from?
I'm suggesting the majority are from Mexico but we have a couple from other country's that do the same. Very good eye sir.
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Old 12-12-2012, 10:22 AM   #30
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Do you have anything of substance to contribute? Or are you going to do your usual lib tap dance of Big Brother is always the answer?


I don't know massa. What is we gone do?
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Old 12-12-2012, 10:32 AM   #31
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I don't know massa. What is we gone do?
Your continual use of "this card" is really annoying. Any time you get caught with your hand in the proverbial cookie jar, you just play this "oh sawwwwwy massstaaa me jusssa black folk" card.

Grow up Brotha
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Old 12-12-2012, 11:00 AM   #32
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I completely agree with you here. Almost. There are a lot of stupid people in washington with a lack of common sense. Increasing your cash-out while decreasing your cash-in is a lack of common sense. As is the thought that spending money makes all your problems go away. Same with the thought that making more money makes all your problems go away.

I'm just saying that this story is a feel-good story about charity, disguised as a reason to hate illegal immigrants. There should be no issues with Loyola and its doctors deciding to do the work pro bono, or with the guy's mission group deciding they want to raise money to help cover his cost of medicine, or with a non-profit donating their money to help the cause. The only thing that would have made this story better is if he had brought his own money here to buy the procedure with. Illegal or not, it's money coming in from outside.

We can also agree that no, health care is not a human rights issue.
While I agree with lots of what you said, let's keep in mind that for every give there is a take.

Re: the part I bolded above, since its not practical for the hospital and the docs to fulfill all the needs of those that cannot pay for their health care, why did this illegal immigrant get his needed services for free? And who didn't get their needed services for free as a result of this guy using those resources? And should a US citizen/tax payer/legal resident/shiny happy person have been "taken care of" before this guy?

Certainly there are medical decisions to be made about urgency of need, probability of success, reward/risk of various treatments, etc. The docs should make those calls. But as far as prioritizing people that will get to consume scarce resources, do you think someone that entered the country and remains here illegally and someone that's a legal citizen should have equal priority?
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Old 12-12-2012, 11:03 AM   #33
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To back up Nova's comment, the take is the free positive publicity Loyola got.. I'd have to think that they (the university and medical program) knew there was a high probability they would get a lot of media exposure on this one.. which makes them look good
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Old 12-12-2012, 11:43 AM   #34
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Good. Hope he lives a long life.
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Old 12-12-2012, 12:21 PM   #35
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I'd have to think that they (the university and medical program) knew there was a high probability they would get a lot of media exposure on this one.. which makes them look good
I hate assumptions, they provide nothing and only leave the door open for bipartisan rhetoric. As far as we know the university did this act out of the spirit of the season. Leave it at that.
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Old 12-12-2012, 12:28 PM   #36
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While I agree with lots of what you said, let's keep in mind that for every give there is a take.

Re: the part I bolded above, since its not practical for the hospital and the docs to fulfill all the needs of those that cannot pay for their health care, why did this illegal immigrant get his needed services for free? And who didn't get their needed services for free as a result of this guy using those resources? And should a US citizen/tax payer/legal resident/shiny happy person have been "taken care of" before this guy?

Certainly there are medical decisions to be made about urgency of need, probability of success, reward/risk of various treatments, etc. The docs should make those calls. But as far as prioritizing people that will get to consume scarce resources, do you think someone that entered the country and remains here illegally and someone that's a legal citizen should have equal priority?
Loyola is a private religious institution. They have (and should have) zero burden to check, or offer/deny services based on, the legal status of someone to whom they are offering charity.
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Old 12-12-2012, 01:05 PM   #37
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Fawk this guy and all the libs on this forum who claimed during the Obamacare debates that this wouldn't become an issue.



FWIW, I predicted this would happen October 2009 : http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthr...ight=obamacare



A right? So this guy believes he has a RIGHT to illegally enter our country and take those privileges EARNED through the taxes we pay. This is bullsh*t.
It is always a RIGHT to have free healthcare, free housing and free college when someone else is paying for it.

I regarded it as a personal achievement when I EARNED my college degree and paid for it myself and then bought my first home after saving money for many years and establishing a solid credit rating.


I don't think this illegal alien and I would get along very well.

Did you see the news about drug traffickers using a cannon to shoot drugs over the border wall? That's what I'd like to do with illegal aliens. Put them in a cannon and shoot them over the wall back to Mexico.
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Old 12-12-2012, 01:09 PM   #38
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While I agree with lots of what you said, let's keep in mind that for every give there is a take.

Re: the part I bolded above, since its not practical for the hospital and the docs to fulfill all the needs of those that cannot pay for their health care, why did this illegal immigrant get his needed services for free? And who didn't get their needed services for free as a result of this guy using those resources? And should a US citizen/tax payer/legal resident/shiny happy person have been "taken care of" before this guy?

Certainly there are medical decisions to be made about urgency of need, probability of success, reward/risk of various treatments, etc. The docs should make those calls. But as far as prioritizing people that will get to consume scarce resources, do you think someone that entered the country and remains here illegally and someone that's a legal citizen should have equal priority?

Why did an illegal alien get it done for free when we have American citizens that wait years for an operation and then mortgage their homes, have bake sales and community fund raisers etc.......to pay these same doctors who perform the same operation on a criminal element for free because it is 'the spirit of the season ?'
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Old 12-12-2012, 01:11 PM   #39
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I don't know massa. What is we gone do?
I think that is Bojangles, one of the best dancers of the thirties ?
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Old 12-12-2012, 01:56 PM   #40
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Why did an illegal alien get it done for free when we have American citizens that wait years for an operation and then mortgage their homes, have bake sales and community fund raisers etc.......to pay these same doctors who perform the same operation on a criminal element for free because it is 'the spirit of the season ?'
because Loyola is a private religious institution that can choose who to give charity to under what circumstances and at whatever time they choose, and this person received a direct donation from a family member with a matching organ.

If only more people volunteered their organs for direct donation, the waiting list would be a lot shorter. But they don't.

And don't think your organ donor status means much. Do you know how hard it is for that to actually come in to play?
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