E46 wheel nut issue

Hi, could anyone please please help with my matter of constant wheel bolts snapping on myn e46 325i????
I never had an issue whilst i had the original mv1 alloys fitted with original bolts, but since ive fitted a set of aftermarket 18" LM's ive been experiencing wheel bolts snapping very frequently
The wheel bolts are not being overtorqued at all which is what was thought to be the original problem.
Is there any chance at all that the hubs maybe causing this problem, has anyone else experienced this problem????
After replacing many sets of wheel bolts myself and the garage are very puzzled
It is only happening on the rear wheels
Would really appreciate it if anyone could help to resolve this annoying problem

Buy bolts yourself and install them yourself. or switch to studs

Do your LM's accept conical lug bolts?

Ive had several sets of wheel bolts, the garage have fitted them with a torques wrench, also I have fitted sets of bolts myself with a torques wrench. The last set was speedline bolts, just cant understand why this keeps happening to the rear wheels??

Do the wheel centers fit snug to the hub to centralise the wheel or are bolts taking the weight of the car? some wheels need spigot rings fitted to centralise them.

When I went to the garage with this ongoing problem they had it on the ramps and did a wheel check to see if this was a cause, but there isnt any movement when puttin the wheel on the hub. Im even thinkin could it be a fault with the rear alloys themselves, they've sold a large amount of the same alloy to other customers who own an e46 and never had a problem. I must of had at least 10 bolts snap on me up to now

Yea, something is wrong, OP.

Either these are cheap, crappy wheel bolts, or you have crazy stupid camber and drive like a moron...or I bet, Dan is right...that your new wheel isn't fitting on the hub as it should.

When you mount your wheel, does it fit on the hub so you can hold it with one hand and put the bolt in with the other? If not, you need to fix that.

Well for starters I don't drive like a moron or have stupid camber..
They are a replica set of alloys, could it be pissible that the rear wheels have not been machined 100% accurate?? Ive bought sets in the past without having any problems.
My only option I have left is to try contact the suppliers to see if they can help, i havent had them 12 months yet.
All this mither is making me wish I'd kept the originals

OP, do you torque your bolts dry? Do you use anti-sieze or similar compound?

I dont use any anti seize, i torque them dry.
This problem has only started happening on the rear wheels since i have changed from my original MV1 to replica LM Mesh alloys

Sounds like this could be a big safety issue..
Check the wheel and the hub for fit, something is wrong there. Assuming you are using quality parts and they have never been over torqued .
I use anti-seize compound and torque to about 90 pounds, which I know is a few pounds more than recommended for my E46.

Originally Posted by jayb328i

Sounds like this could be a big safety issue..
Check the wheel and the hub for fit, something is wrong there. Assuming you are using quality parts and they have never been over torqued .
I use anti-seize compound and torque to about 90 pounds, which I know is a few pounds more than recommended for my E46.

jayb...

You really need to stop using anti-seize on the wheel bolts. Believe me, you want them to seize, much more than you want them to anti-seize.

Also, afaik, and I follow these topics pretty closely...if you use a lubricant on a particular bolt, you adjust torque substantially less. I'm making up numbers, but if you'd use anti-seize on a wheel bolt that calls for 85 ft-lb, you'd probably only want 50-60 ft-lb when torqueing.

You use anti-seize, lightly and thinly between the rotor and hub, and wheel and rotor...keeping it away from the wheel bolts. You'd also put a ring of anti-seize around where the wheel and axle meet.

Will you please trust me on this? Wherever you picked this idea up from is wrong...and sounds to me also that you're holding your wheels on with the equivalent of about 120-150 ft-lb. Not so great on our soft bmw metals!

Let me know if I've convinced you...or maybe someone will come on and say I'm misinformed, having been mislead by 100's of fanatics' posts. I don't think so.

What happens if you rotate your wheels, no change?
Do you feel any vibration while driving?
Are the bolts long enough for the rim?

Ive jacked the car up and checked for any play, and can't feel any play or wobble. Road tested it and I aint got any vibrations. The wheel nuts were supplied by the garage who checked the correct size. Ive asked several technicians for there advice and they've never heard of so many bolts snapping. Im seriously runnin out of ideas, other than to point the finger at the wheels

Originally Posted by amaddox80

Ive jacked the car up and checked for any play, and can't feel any play or wobble. Road tested it and I aint got any vibrations. The wheel nuts were supplied by the garage who checked the correct size. Ive asked several technicians for there advice and they've never heard of so many bolts snapping. Im seriously runnin out of ideas, other than to point the finger at the wheels

Put on a different set of wheels with the same lug bolts and see what happens! You can use your spare too, one side at a time.
If the bolts hold up than the problem is the wheel.
By the way, does it always happen on the same part of the hub/wheel?
That could also give a clue.

The guys who gave you the bolts checked them and said they're the right ones. The fox is guarding the chicken house.

You need to make sure that your wheel sits on the ring and you should buy bmw wheel bolts...assuming your wheel isn't such a wrong size that you need different wheel bolts...do you have spacers on?

When you put your wheel on, can you sit it on a ring and just spin it until the holes line up, or do you need to hold it in place...lift it up to get the bolts in? If the latter, that's your problem. Someone mentioned something that sounds like it's made to deal with that issue...otherwise the wheels are wrong. Bolts are made to hold the wheel onto the hub, not to support all the weight of the car...and when in a turn, a lot more force is exerted. Maybe they tightened them so much they stretched the bolts close to breaking point. I'm not a metallurgist, but something is wrong. Don't go experimenting around...figure out 'the' issue(s) and fix them. You have at least one, maybe more than one issues. You need to know what they are.

When I put the wheel on the hub it holds there so I can spin it, there isnt any movement up, down , left or right. I just spin the wheel to locate the wheel bolts. As for the bolts they dont just snap in a particular hole in the hub, they have pretty much snapped in all the holes on both sides of the rear. I will have to try get 2 different wheels to give ago and see what happens I suppose. Dont know if I'll get anywhere with trying contact the wheel manufacturer, cant see them helpin

dmax
read you response regarding the use of anti seize on wheel bolts--and coming from you.......it is as if the 11th Commandment has just been broadcasted via the burning bush. Clearly you speak with authority and knowledge. Without receiving confirmation that I should continue this practice via my research, I will stop doing that. What you say sounds logical. I started doing this many years ago after seeing it done at the BMW dealership I used at that time for my E30, and never questioned it. Now I am, thanks to you......thank you for your input.

Originally Posted by amaddox80

When I put the wheel on the hub it holds there so I can spin it, there isnt any movement up, down , left or right. I just spin the wheel to locate the wheel bolts. As for the bolts they dont just snap in a particular hole in the hub, they have pretty much snapped in all the holes on both sides of the rear. I will have to try get 2 different wheels to give ago and see what happens I suppose. Dont know if I'll get anywhere with trying contact the wheel manufacturer, cant see them helpin

Simplest explanations usually work best. In this case, I'm guessing cheap wheel bolts. I want to say they should be $4-5 each...I don't know...haven't needed to buy new ones, but Mango will cry about it someday, I know!

Next is that the cone on the bolt isn't fitting right in the wheel. Bet if you take the wheel off and look at how the bolt is sitting in it, you'll see that it's not as it should be. Actually, I bet that's what it is...and was mentioned above.

They might be the wrong design of head for the wheels. Not sure you said...tl to look...but do they always break at the same place? Maybe right beneath the bolt? Have you used the wrench in the trunk to tighten them by hand? Bet you can't get them off with that wrench?

Anyway...final guess is cheap/wrong designed bolts and maybe a slightly incorrectly sized wheel, wrong offset (don't know all the wheel terms)...and/or wrong camber.

Are you hellaflush running great camber?

How do you drive? Are you drifting on pothole ridden roads?

Originally Posted by jayb328i

dmax
read you response regarding the use of anti seize on wheel bolts--and coming from you.......it is as if the 11th Commandment has just been broadcasted via the burning bush. Clearly you speak with authority and knowledge. Without receiving confirmation that I should continue this practice via my research, I will stop doing that. What you say sounds logical. I started doing this many years ago after seeing it done at the BMW dealership I used at that time for my E30, and never questioned it. Now I am, thanks to you......thank you for your input.

Did some quick research and came to the conclusion that DMAX is right. See below some comments. NOW I have the issue of after using seize compound for many years and just stop doing it, has the treads been stretched (due to overtightened) that I should be replacing the bolts.

TIRERACK
Wheel Lug Torquing

IMPORTANT!
Proper installation requires that the wheel lug torque be set to the recommended specification for your vehicle. These torque specifications can be found in your vehicle's owner's manual, shop repair manual or obtained from your vehicle dealer.
Wheel lug torque specifications are for clean threads that are free of dirt, grit, etc. If applying an anti-seize lubricant, it is important to note it can be applied only on the threads of nuts or bolts. The lubricant must not be used on either seat of the hardware of the wheel. With the seat being the main point of friction where torque is measured, extreme caution must be used if an anti-seize lubricant is applied to the threads as excess can either drip or be pushed onto the lug seat resulting in inaccurate torque values


Moderator and Tire God
LUKE@TIRERACK Join Date: Feb 2000
Posts: 2,071

Anti-sieze on a lug bolt is a very bad idea !!!

Here's why: Bolts or studs provide clamping force by being purposely stretched. Most torque specs bring a bolt well within its elastic limit. Then when loosened they will return to their original length and can be safely reused (Some bolts, including many head bolts, are purposely stretched past their elastic limit, and can not be reused). The torque wrench is the most convenient-but not the most accurate-method of properly stretching
automotive bolts. Engineers spend hours correlating the proper bolt stretch to the required turning effort.

About 90% of a torque specification is used to overcome friction; only 10% of the specified twisting effort provides clamping force. It is no surprise then that most lubricant tables recommend a 40-45% reduction of applied torque when using
anti-sieze on a bolt. So, a lugbolt coated with anti-sieze should be tightened to a maximum of 49 ft-lbs. Tightening this lugnut to 85 ft-lbs. means it is now over-torqued by 73%! Considering that most torque specs stretch a bolt to within 70% of its elastic limit, over-torquing by 73% will easily send the bolt or stud well beyond its elastic limit-and could be dangerously close to its failure point.

For this reason I would suggest to all forum members to never use anti-seize on your lug