E46 BMW Social Directory E46 FAQ 3-Series Discussion Forums BMW Photo Gallery BMW 3-Series Technical Information E46 Fanatics - The Ultimate BMW Resource BMW Vendors General E46 Forum The Tire Rack's Tire Wheel Forum Forced Induction Forum The Off-Topic The E46 BMW Showroom For Sale, For Trade or Wanting to Buy

Welcome to the E46Fanatics forums. E46Fanatics is the premiere website for BMW 3 series owners around the world with interactive forums, a geographical enthusiast directory, photo galleries, and technical information for BMW enthusiasts.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.

Go Back   E46Fanatics > Everything Else > The Off-Topic > General Off-Topic

General Off-Topic
Everything not about BMWs. Posts must be "primetime" safe and in good taste. You must be logged in to see sub-forums.
Click here to browse all new posts.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 12-20-2012, 04:19 PM   #21
alphawhiskey
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Tango
Posts: 18
My Ride: Foxtrot
Quote:
Originally Posted by E46330iguy View Post
Because It wouldnt save you fuel on a 40 hp Engine, A turbo atomizes the air to help it burn better. Larger engines tend to be less efficent thus why they make a difference is my understanding
WTF is "atomizing" air?

Turbos are spun by exhaust gases and compress intake air for more air per unit of volume, which leads to more combustion and resulting in more power.

It does nothing to the displacement of the engine as mentioned, unless that person meant it effectively increases power to that of a larger displacement engine.

Wow, guys...

Not all "econoboxes" have them because while you could strap a turbo to almost anything, to make it last and perform reliably, you'd have to reinforce a lot of components which costs more. Also, there is no point in turbo charging an econobox if the target demo is looking for an econobox and not a sports car.

To get at your point, there are econoboxes that get turbo'd: lancer-->lancer evolution; dodge whatever-->a little faster dodge whatever, etc.

Last edited by alphawhiskey; 12-20-2012 at 04:28 PM.
alphawhiskey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2012, 04:22 PM   #22
PH03NIX46
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Vermont
Posts: 1,126
My Ride: '03 M3
Watching history unfold.
__________________
PH03NIX46 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2012, 04:23 PM   #23
Stankia
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Chicago
Posts: 55
My Ride: 4.2FSI S-Line
A turbo: Exhaust gasses go into the turbocharger and spin it, witchcraft happens, and you go faster.
__________________
DOGE Crew
Stankia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2012, 04:25 PM   #24
Scooby24
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Overland Park, KS
Posts: 371
My Ride: '03 330i ZHP Sedan
Quote:
Originally Posted by alphawhiskey View Post
WTF is "atomizing" air?

Turbos are spun by exhaust gases and compress intake air for more air per unit of volume, which leads to more combustion and resulting in more power.

It does nothing to the displacement of the engine as mentioned, unless that person meant it effectively increases power to that of a larger displacement engine.

Wow, guys...
This.
__________________
Scooby24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2012, 04:25 PM   #25
NFRs2000nyc
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: NYC/NJ
Posts: 904
My Ride: 2003 FormulaRedS2000
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkodama View Post
Economy cars are meant to be economical to buy and run. If you want the best fuel economy, spend more money for a hybrid or electric car.

Turbos also don't give you better fuel economy. They just push more air into the engine.




That is possibly one of the dumbest things I've read on E46Fanatics in a while.
False. It is this administrations (Bush too) moronic push for clean energy (which is actually filthy) that kept diesels off our shores as mainstream vehicles. Diesels have been getting 50+ MPG since the 80s, and the current crop of econo diesels are breaking the 75mpg mark.

http://www.whatgas.com/fuel/diesel-mpg.html

They are also CHEAPER. Diesel in the US is expensive, and cars like TDI Audis cost MORE than their gas counterparts....in Europe, the diesel models are not only more economical, but they cost less....and are more reliable. A diesel motor for the average driver is a godsend, since they suffer less mechanical problems and can run to 100-200K without much sweat.
__________________

Last edited by NFRs2000nyc; 12-20-2012 at 04:27 PM.
NFRs2000nyc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2012, 04:26 PM   #26
wceoscar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Santiago, Dominican Republic
Posts: 640
My Ride: 323i
Because of the cost involved in producing a small and efficient turbo engine (Forged internals, The turbos themselves, More robust exhaust and intake...).
At the end of the day you will end up with a more powerful engine but the fuel economy wont be that great compared to a small N/A engine, it will also be more expensive to maintain for the manufacturer (warranty) which increases the price, premium fuel is a must in order to avoid detonation which becomes more expensive to run... In Diesel applications it is understandable because of the lack of power on small diesel N/A engines.
__________________

Last edited by wceoscar; 12-20-2012 at 04:32 PM.
wceoscar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2012, 04:26 PM   #27
bimmerfan08
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Hampton Roads, VA
Posts: 4,891
My Ride: Phoenix Yellow M3
Quote:
Originally Posted by simsima325 View Post
In before everyone is an engineer all of a sudden.
I'm an engineer...but engineers don't tend to speak on a subject unless they truly understand it and can present the material logically.
__________________
Quote:
The whole business of politics has been effectively subcontracted out to a band of professionals. Money people, outreach people, message people, research people. The rest of us are meant to feel like amateurs. In the sense of suckers. We become demotivated to learn more about how things work. We begin to opt out.
bimmerfan08 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2012, 04:27 PM   #28
francogt1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: NJ/MD
Posts: 1,039
My Ride: E30 M3
Send a message via AIM to francogt1
__________________
_DSC7278sig
francogt1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2012, 04:28 PM   #29
Scooby24
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Overland Park, KS
Posts: 371
My Ride: '03 330i ZHP Sedan
Quote:
Originally Posted by wceoscar View Post
Because of the cost involved in producing a small and efficent turbo engine (Forged internals, The turbos themselves, More robust exhaust and intake...).
And at the end of the day you will end up with a more powerful engine but the fuel economy wont be that great compared to a small N/A engine.
Unfortunately, many turbo cars are not using fully forged internals. Lots of cast pistons still being used in turbo applications for emissions reasons.
__________________
Scooby24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2012, 04:28 PM   #30
NFRs2000nyc
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: NYC/NJ
Posts: 904
My Ride: 2003 FormulaRedS2000
Quote:
Originally Posted by wceoscar View Post
Because of the cost involved in producing a small and efficent turbo engine (Forged internals, The turbos themselves, More robust exhaust and intake...).
And at the end of the day you will end up with a more powerful engine but the fuel economy wont be that great compared to a small N/A engine.
You don't need forged internals for a low pressure low HP turbo application.
__________________
NFRs2000nyc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2012, 04:30 PM   #31
mkodama
Registered User
 
mkodama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 33,171
Quote:
Originally Posted by b0bab0i View Post
And there's beeen alot of dumb things said on E46Fanatics.



Quote:
Originally Posted by SamDoe1 View Post
Yes, but the small engine allows you to get better fuel economy when the turbo is not feeding boost and provides power, even with a small engine, when feeding boost. Best of both worlds.
I agree, but OP didn't mention a smaller engine.
__________________

mkodama is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2012, 04:42 PM   #32
VaderDave
Invictus
 
VaderDave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: El Dorado Hills, CA
Posts: 11,896
My Ride: 330CiC ZHP
Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmerfan08 View Post
I'm an engineer...but engineers don't tend to speak on a subject unless they truly understand it and can present the material logically.
Unless that subject happens to be gun control, apparently.









I keed! I keed!

VaderDave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2012, 04:42 PM   #33
mkodama
Registered User
 
mkodama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 33,171
Quote:
Originally Posted by NFRs2000nyc View Post
False. It is this administrations (Bush too) moronic push for clean energy (which is actually filthy) that kept diesels off our shores as mainstream vehicles. Diesels have been getting 50+ MPG since the 80s, and the current crop of econo diesels are breaking the 75mpg mark.

http://www.whatgas.com/fuel/diesel-mpg.html

They are also CHEAPER. Diesel in the US is expensive, and cars like TDI Audis cost MORE than their gas counterparts....in Europe, the diesel models are not only more economical, but they cost less....and are more reliable. A diesel motor for the average driver is a godsend, since they suffer less mechanical problems and can run to 100-200K without much sweat.
Umm, what's false? I should have included diesels, but that doesn't make anything false.

Your statements about diesel costs are incorrect though. Diesel engines don't make as much power as similar sized gasoline engines, so they need to compensate for that, as well as they need stronger (more expensive) components to deal with increased cylinder pressures, and lastly clean diesel injection and exhaust treatment systems are very new and very expensive.
__________________

mkodama is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2012, 04:51 PM   #34
evolved
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Saint Louis, MO
Posts: 818
My Ride: 2011 BMW 135i
Going from zero to politics in 30 posts or less, lol.


Quote:
Originally Posted by simsima325 View Post
In before everyone is an engineer all of a sudden.
__________________

Present
2011 BMW 135i - BSM
Past
2006 Mazdaspeed 6 GT, 2000 BMW 323ci, 2003 Evolution VIII, 1995 Nissan 240sx w/ SR20DET

E46Sig

Last edited by evolved; 12-20-2012 at 04:52 PM.
evolved is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2012, 04:56 PM   #35
bimmerfan08
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Hampton Roads, VA
Posts: 4,891
My Ride: Phoenix Yellow M3
Quote:
Originally Posted by VaderDave View Post
Unless that subject happens to be gun control, apparently.









I keed! I keed!

I have no idea of what you are talking about.

I'll let the SMEs handle this topic.
__________________
Quote:
The whole business of politics has been effectively subcontracted out to a band of professionals. Money people, outreach people, message people, research people. The rest of us are meant to feel like amateurs. In the sense of suckers. We become demotivated to learn more about how things work. We begin to opt out.
bimmerfan08 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2012, 04:59 PM   #36
customisbetter
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: East Lansing
Posts: 255
My Ride: 02 325xi
I think people's main understanding of turbos is that they force air into the engine. That is cool except that doing only that results in a very lean mixture. Those kids who slap a chinese turbo onto their rusty DSM and blow it up learn this the hard way.

Manufactures have to increase the fuel as well as the air input into an engine. The only "Economy" you get from turbos is when they are in the phase of very low to no boost and the fuel system doesn't increase the mixture. When you are in boost, you are shoving extra fuel into the combustion chamber as well.

To the guy who thinks a turbo atomizes air, I don't want to be on this planet anymore.
__________________
customisbetter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2012, 05:03 PM   #37
pancakes
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: awesomeville
Posts: 86
My Ride: BMW M, VW GTI, BIKE
Quote:
Originally Posted by SPDSKTR View Post
My favorite cars with turbos are the ones with lackbof turbos.
concur.

Quote:
Originally Posted by E46330iguy View Post
A turbo atomizes the air to help it burn better.
true story... the blades chop up the air until they're small as atoms.
pancakes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2012, 05:11 PM   #38
PH03NIX46
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Vermont
Posts: 1,126
My Ride: '03 M3
Quote:
Originally Posted by broey v View Post
true story... the blades chop up the air until they're small as atoms.


Chapter 1, page 2, of the petrosexual handbook.
__________________

Last edited by PH03NIX46; 12-20-2012 at 05:14 PM.
PH03NIX46 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2012, 05:22 PM   #39
mistrzmiasta
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: NYC
Posts: 999
My Ride: GLK350,ML63, Duc1098
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkodama View Post
Economy cars are meant to be economical to buy and run. If you want the best fuel economy, spend more money for a hybrid or electric car.

Turbos also don't give you better fuel economy. They just push more air into the engine.




That is possibly one of the dumbest things I've read on E46Fanatics in a while.
even dumber than when he said he trailers his 330 1000's of miles to go autox'ing.
mistrzmiasta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2012, 05:25 PM   #40
zabalzae
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Georgetown Texas
Posts: 359
My Ride: 01 330ci
Who cares
zabalzae is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Censor is ON





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:39 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
(c) 1999 - 2011 performanceIX Inc - privacy policy - terms of use