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Old 12-30-2012, 12:01 PM   #1
CarterRuss
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Quick wheel bearin/hub question

So I just changed my passenger wheel hub (thanks to the DIY on here) but I can't find my torque wrench so I am just guessing on my tightening.

The question: I put the hub on and secured the axle nut but the hub won't rotate at all....is the axle nut too tight or is that just a result of a new bearing that hasn't broken in yet?
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Old 12-30-2012, 12:48 PM   #2
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should rotate by hand easily but not freewheel. You may have put the nut on too tightly.
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Old 12-30-2012, 01:46 PM   #3
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I ended up putting the wheel on and I can spin it and it goes for a rotation or two.

I changed the hub because the other day I started to get a bad wobble womp sound (I just had snow tires mount on rims and put on). So now, I replaced everything and drive and now the wobble womp sound is still there. Before I couldn't go 20mph without hearing it, now its up to like 30mph and gets a bit louder and fades away.

I changed the bearing wrong? or bad balance on the tire?
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Old 12-30-2012, 04:34 PM   #4
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Proper torque spec is 210 ft. lbs. As long as you can get to 200 ft.lbs +/- 5, I believe you're good to go.
When you mounted the new hub/bearing... Did you happen to strike it with a hammer to seat it (fully) or did you use a bearing-race installer?

NOTE: You can reference my YT vids to see how well/smooth a New hub bearing should spin right after proper install.

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Old 12-30-2012, 04:44 PM   #5
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I used a 36mm socket and a hammer to get it on. I seem to only get a womp/noise at 20-40mph lower and higher it is gone...
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Old 12-30-2012, 04:47 PM   #6
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I used a 36mm socket and a hammer to get it on. I seem to only get a womp/noise at 20-40mph lower and higher it is gone...
You might have hurt the race in getting it on.
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Old 12-30-2012, 04:57 PM   #7
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Do you have a separate set of rims? I'd put one summer on the corner you think the issue is coming from and go for a drive. I'd suspect wheel balance. Are your winters worn evenly? Winter tires make more noise in the best of situations, moreso when worn unevenly. Rub your hand over the tire surface side to side and around the circumference. Does it feel "regular"?

Take it to a competent mechanic.
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Old 12-31-2012, 12:13 AM   #8
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I went to a tire place and he seemed to think the tires were a tad uneven but I'm still thinkin wheel bearing. How do you tell it is fully seated? I tapped it on till it was past the last threads on the spindle.

I tapped just the inner bearing race with the socket how would that mess up the race?
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Old 12-31-2012, 04:04 AM   #9
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I used a 36mm socket and a hammer to get it on. I seem to only get a womp/noise at 20-40mph lower and higher it is gone...
If you need to use force to fit bearings then you should apply the force to the OUTER RACE when fitting it into the housing and on the INNER RACE when fitting the bearing to the shaft. If you have applied a hammer to the bearing the other way round you will undoubtedly have damaged the bearing and will need to replace it. That would be the cause of the rumble. However, for tightening the hub nut you should tighten to the required torque (which is referred to as pre loading) and then back the nut off by a half or a full turn. You will need to check the spec. Then fit the securing pin. You could try backing the nut off half a turn see if the rumble goes away. If it doesn't then you have probably knackered the bearing.

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Old 12-31-2012, 08:36 AM   #10
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I thought the inner race was the back of the bearing (shield side) and the outer race was the axle nut side? I pressed the hub onto the spindle but either I wasn't generous enough with the lube or the bearing is just a tight fit. Only went on a few mm's onto the spindle so I took the 36mm socket (ended up being just smaller than the bearing) and tapped it till it felt like it was on fully.

I am going to test out loosening then axle nut when I get out of work. Drove this morning and the noise disappeared at 70 mph. Also there has been no steering vibration which I would think is odd.
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Old 12-31-2012, 09:11 AM   #11
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I thought the inner race was the back of the bearing (shield side) and the outer race was the axle nut side? I pressed the hub onto the spindle but either I wasn't generous enough with the lube or the bearing is just a tight fit. Only went on a few mm's onto the spindle so I took the 36mm socket (ended up being just smaller than the bearing) and tapped it till it felt like it was on fully.

I am going to test out loosening then axle nut when I get out of work. Drove this morning and the noise disappeared at 70 mph. Also there has been no steering vibration which I would think is odd.

You seem to be confused about inner and outer races. It has nothing to do with which side of teh bearing assembly faces inwards and which side faces outwards. A radial wheel bearing is basically two metal tubes a small one inside a bigger one. These tubes are kept apart by bearings. Either spherical bearings (ball), cylindrical bearings (roller) or tapered bearings (tapered roller) and sometimes a combination of both side by side. The smaller of the rtubes (the inner race) slides onto a shaft. The larger of the tubes (outer race) usually sits within a housing eg: a wheel hub.

If you apply an impact force to either race such that the force is transmitted through the bearings to the other race then you will cause damage to the bearings and race. There is little doubt about that. This will result in a rumbling noise. It is vibration. This vibration will increase in frequency as you speed up and will likely reach a frequency that is beyond the range of normal human ears. This is why you can no longer hear it at 70 mph. But the vibration is still there. As I said, you should try slackening the nut of a half turn and see if that reduces the vibration but I have to say that, from what you are telling me, it does sound like you may have damaged the bearing through improper application of force. What is the diameter of the axle/shaft?

I have attached a scan of the process from my manual. Check it out. If you can't read it here try saving the image and opening it up in MS paint.
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Old 12-31-2012, 09:23 AM   #12
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ahh makes sense. Thus a bearing race installer should have been used because it provides an even force across the whole thing? Going to be a shame if I find out I have to spend another $100 because I took a shortcut...I think my dad use to tell me measure, cut once.
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Old 12-31-2012, 09:34 AM   #13
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ahh makes sense. Thus a bearing race installer should have been used because it provides an even force across the whole thing? Going to be a shame if I find out I have to spend another $100 because I took a shortcut...I think my dad use to tell me measure, cut once.
See the amendment to my previous posting. When you open the image do a right mouse click on it and select "Copy image". Then open a MS Paint session, paste it into there and you will be able to read it.

Edit ....

By the way, the book says 214 ib ft of torque. If you don't have a torque wrench this is the equivalent of 214b weight at a distance of 1 foot from the center of the hub, or 107 at a distance of 2 feet from the center of the hub so I would put a pipe over the end of your wrench so that its extends it to at least 2.5 feet and get your 7.6 stone sister to stand on it. Only kidding. You are gping to have to estimate what 100lb of force is and go with that but its better if you can get hold of a torque wrench. It also says nothing about backing off the nut once you have reached the specifed torque. It just says to refit the staker. However, it is important to check that the hub rotates freely without any sign of binding which would indicate overtightening. So without a torque wrench you may have to adjust it a little.

Last edited by RayPooley; 12-31-2012 at 09:50 AM. Reason: Additional information
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Old 12-31-2012, 11:11 AM   #14
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I'm not so sure about the tightening the hub down to the torque and then back off a half turn...that doesn't sound right to me...though if it's in the TIS, I stand corrected.

I know with skateboard bearings, it's very easy to overtighten and get the bearings to seize...and backing off loosens them up...but on the front hub, I'm not so sure about that. But, it does sound, OP, like how you installed it might be the issue. I don't know if you cleaned things up really well before you greased it up or not, but that can make a big difference for things with tight tolerances like wheel bearings/hubs.
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Old 12-31-2012, 11:18 AM   #15
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So according to Bentley, which I just checked...

After pressing on new hub, install collar nut but don't tighten to it's full 214 ft-lb yet.

Install brake rotor and caliper, then mount wheel and lug bolts...lower car...and with assistant applying brakes, then you tighten collar nut to the full 214 ft-lb.

Then raise car, remove wheel, 'stake' axle nut and 'caulk threads of stub axle'

I wonder if maybe you could get lucky by back up a step or two and redoing it over?
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Old 12-31-2012, 11:38 AM   #16
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interesting, will have to try both and hope one of them solves this because I'd rather not have to replace a brand new hub do to stupidity
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Old 12-31-2012, 11:52 AM   #17
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interesting, will have to try both and hope one of them solves this because I'd rather not have to replace a brand new hub do to stupidity
Bentley does say to use a special puller to remove the hub...but also...instructions on removing inner race if it gets stuck when removing.

So, be careful...you can pull off the hub again but you risk damaging it.

You might just try retightening the collar nut...maybe backing it off just a tad if you notice that frees it up spinning better as shown in post above.

You maybe have damaged the hub already, but I suspect these are pretty hardy bearings, so hope you do get lucky.
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Old 12-31-2012, 11:59 AM   #18
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That is my thought, a few hammer strokes are worse than my daily driving? I am going to try the loosening of the nut and if that doesn't work take it to a shop and see if they can tell if its a bad bearing or not.
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Old 12-31-2012, 12:15 PM   #19
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I'm not so sure about the tightening the hub down to the torque and then back off a half turn...that doesn't sound right to me...though if it's in the TIS, I stand corrected.

I know with skateboard bearings, it's very easy to overtighten and get the bearings to seize...and backing off loosens them up...but on the front hub, I'm not so sure about that. But, it does sound, OP, like how you installed it might be the issue. I don't know if you cleaned things up really well before you greased it up or not, but that can make a big difference for things with tight tolerances like wheel bearings/hubs.
If, by TIS, you mean the manual then you stand corrected because that's what it says. The manual assumes tightening to the specified torque of 214 lbf ft. (As per my previous comment)
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Old 12-31-2012, 12:30 PM   #20
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That is my thought, a few hammer strokes are worse than my daily driving? I am going to try the loosening of the nut and if that doesn't work take it to a shop and see if they can tell if its a bad bearing or not.
Feel free to read the extract from the manual that I posted for you. It clearly states that the hub assembly should not be removed unless it is to be replaced. This applies regardless of how old the assembly is. This is because the only way you can remove it is by using a bearing puller on the housing thereby transferring the force through the housing to the outer race, to the bearings and finally to the inner race. I have already explained why this is a problem. In fact, its not uncommon for the damage to be so that the inner race gets left behind. (Again, read the extract from the manual).

Radial bearings are designed to take primarily radial forces. Angular contact bearings can take some axial loading but not a lot. Radial means forces perpendicular to the axis of rotation. If you apply forces to the outer race, by either the hammer or the puller, you are applying axial forces which the bearings are not designed to take. That is forces in line with the axis of rotation. Hence the resultant damage.
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